THIS is photo journalism - and art photography

bdcolen

A photo of a body on a Haitian street by Damon Winter/New York Times on the front page of today's Times.

Damon_Winter_NYTimes.jpg

rutt

Yeah, I just saw that. Wow.

PJ like this requires a kind of real dedication that is interesting to contemplate.

bdcolen

rutt wrote:

Yeah, I just saw that. Wow.

PJ like this requires a kind of real dedication that is interesting to contemplate.

Indeed it does.

Patti

Powerful image. Such a sad sad situation in Haiti.

OT but did you hear Pat Robertson's comments about it? I don't know how he sleeps at night. The cr** that comes out of his mouth.

rutt

Didn't hear him, but just heard a clip from Rush Limbaugh. I knew this would be coming, but wow. Just google for Limbaugh Haiti. I'm convinced Limbaugh is very deliberate about being as provocative as possible.

bdcolen

Patti wrote:

Powerful image. Such a sad sad situation in Haiti.

OT but did you hear Pat Robertson's comments about it? I don't know how he sleeps at night. The cr** that comes out of his mouth.

After Robertson said that the Haitians were cursed because at the time of the slave revolt when they overthrew the French they made a deal with the Devil for their freedom, a 'friend' of a FaceBook friend of mine said that if they ever opened up Robertson's skull instead of finding a brain they'd find all the odd socks and mittens that disappear from our dryers. Which makes allot of sense.

Patti

bdcolen wrote:

After Robertson said that the Haitians were cursed because at the time of the slave revolt when they overthrew the French they made a deal with the Devil for their freedom, a 'friend' of a FaceBook friend of mine said that if they ever opened up Robertson's skull instead of finding a brain they'd find all the odd socks and mittens that disappear from our dryers. Which makes allot of sense.

Fortunately I didn't have a mouthful of coffee when I read this or I'd be looking for a new monitor.

met

rutt wrote:

I'm convinced Limbaugh is very deliberate about being as provocative as possible.

Of course he is and knows exactly what he's doing. His speech itself is irrational and yet his methods of spreading it are logical and systematic. I highly doubt that even he believes half of what he spouts. Politics aside, he incendiarily spews hateful speech to create and prey on irrational fears for one reason only - $$$$. Which in my opinion makes him disgraceful.

TomCollins

bdcolen wrote:

After Robertson said that the Haitians were cursed because at the time of the slave revolt when they overthrew the French they made a deal with the Devil for their freedom, a 'friend' of a FaceBook friend of mine said that if they ever opened up Robertson's skull instead of finding a brain they'd find all the odd socks and mittens that disappear from our dryers. Which makes allot of sense.

The quote above about odd socks and mittens, was one of the funniest things I've heard in a while...and how true it is.

bdcolen

TomCollins wrote:

The quote above about odd socks and mittens, was one of the funniest things I've heard in a while...and how true it is.

I know - like Patti, I almost spewed coffee all over my screen when I read it. And then responded that that makes his skull 'Satan's Dryer.'

Nikonic1

What a moving image. Really puts things in perspective on how fragile life is and how protected and safe we seem here in America. I am so thankful for my freedom and how fortunate I have been.

Thanks for posting B.D.

Patti

bdcolen wrote:

I know - like Patti, I almost spewed coffee all over my screen when I read it. And then responded that that makes his skull 'Satan's Dryer.'

*snorts* This time I DID have a mouthful of tea. What a mess.

Flyinggina

I struggle with this image. That it is wrenchingly painful to look at is a given. But how to deal with the response I have that it is aesthetically beautiful?

There is no hope in the picture, nothing inherently spiritually uplifting in the subject matter. The content moves me as does the content of the other pictures in the series in the Times on the same day (not to mention all of the photographs coming out of Haiti), but my response to the tragedy and my response to the art of the photograph seem at odds with each other. It is not beautiful because of the subject matter (at least not entirely) but because of the framing and the tonality - the photographer's art.

Not sure this makes sense, but I have to say that this photograph disturbs me and has stayed with me since I saw it. As BD said. it is one of those that is both PJ and art.

Virginia

travelways

Wow!

coldclimb

I dunno, maybe it's that in my profession I've seen dead people and my mind has automatically examined the scenes and circumstances and envisioned the photo I could make of the scene, but this image doesn't really say anything to me. It's kind of a snapshot, doesn't really give any perspective, any story unless it's that someone is just walking by... it's just a dead person. You could get this photo by casually walking up to the nearest dead body and being bold enough to point the camera and click the button.

Does a dead body make photo journalism and art all by itself?

I don't intend to offend or be callous, so please don't take this as such. I've seen moving photographs of the deceased, and I've contemplated how I would make them myself while looking at scenes of death, and I think it can be done a whole lot better than this one.

bfjr

coldclimb wrote:

I dunno, maybe it's that in my profession I've seen dead people and my mind has automatically examined the scenes and circumstances and envisioned the photo I could make of the scene, but this image doesn't really say anything to me. It's kind of a snapshot, doesn't really give any perspective, any story unless it's that someone is just walking by... it's just a dead person. You could get this photo by casually walking up to the nearest dead body and being bold enough to point the camera and click the button.

Does a dead body make photo journalism and art all by itself?

I don't intend to offend or be callous, so please don't take this as such. I've seen moving photographs of the deceased, and I've contemplated how I would make them myself while looking at scenes of death, and I think it can be done a whole lot better than this one.

Finally Finally I was starting to think there was something wrong with my eyes.

I like you have seen and even made images of the dead and gone. In fact I'll go so far to say that the image itself lacks any kind of impact, theres no connection on it's own to the resent disaster. Outside of the timeliness of this image there's nothing there and without the captions to explain it could as well be any poor soul who's past in any part of this world.

I also don't mean to offend anyone here or anyone sadly impacted by this natural disaster. In fact I have tried since this got posted to find some deeper meaning but alas perhaps my intellect just can't keep up.

rutt

Well, if it doesn't work for you, maybe it never will.

The crop is very deliberate. He wants you to see those nicely dressed legs for a reason.

Something else that's worth knowing about this shot is this guy won the Pulitzer for PJ last year for his coverage of the Obama Campaign for The New York Times. Now that doesn't necessarily mean this particular shot is good. But it does mean that I've looked at a lot of his images, and perhaps I am attuned to his style. I know the same is true of B.D.

If you google him and spend some time looking at his shots, perhaps it will change how you feel about this one.

bfjr

rutt wrote:

Well, if it doesn't work for you, maybe it never will.

The crop is very deliberate. He wants you to see those nicely dressed legs for a reason.

Something else that's worth knowing about this shot is this guy won the Pulitzer for PJ last year for his coverage of the Obama Campaign for The New York Times. Now that doesn't necessarily mean this particular shot is good. But it does mean that I've looked at a lot of his images, and perhaps I am attuned to his style. I know the same is true of B.D.

If you google him and spend some time looking at his shots, perhaps it will change how you feel about this one.

Rutt if I need all this info to make the shot work, well It doesn't work then.

Besides this is about this single image, not the photog or his style (I will go look however).

Good or Bad means nothing (you know that). Does this image stand on it's own without all the ink around it? If it does it's powerful, otherwise it's just a sad image of deceased person.

Also, nicely dressed legs ? All I see are living legs and not so living.

MiaRose

bdcolen wrote:

A photo of a body on a Haitian street by Damon Winter/New York Times on the front page of today's Times.Damon_Winter_NYTimes.jpg

To me personally, it's a moving image. Something about the greyness, the emptiness, the stillness of the body in contrast with the moving legs... It just works for me.

bfjr

MiaRose wrote:

To me personally, it's a moving image. Something about the greyness, the emptiness, the stillness of the body in contrast with the moving legs... It just works for me.

actually that's a good observation, it's what I saw you just said it better

rutt

bfjr wrote:

Rutt if I need all this info to make the shot work, well It doesn't work then.

We may be different, but some of the stuff I've loved most I didn't love at first. And a lot of it was stuff that I worked at liking because of the reputation of the artist or because someone I respected liked it and took the time to help me see it.

• Shakespeare
• Ballet
• Faulkner
• James Nachtwey (had to see War Photographer before I got it.)
• etc., etc., etc

And sometime, once I get the "key" it opens it all up. So I was just giving you a heads up about this guy. The more I've looked at his stuff the more I've come to appreciate him.

bdcolen

bfjr wrote:

First, in response to Rutt's explanation, and the response to it - I was so stunned by the photo I didn't put 1+1 together in terms of Damon Winter and his campaign coverage. I certainly understand people not liking this. And I can also understand someone 'not getting it.' It is far, far from the usual tragedy/dead body shot - although because of the dust it is somewhat similar to some 9/11 shots. It has an almost posed composition and formalism, and an unusual color palate But I guess I have trouble with the 'I could do better' response. To those who can, or say they have, done better - I say - Show us.

Here's a link a former TA of mine - and shooter for SIPA whose work has appeared everywhere from Paris Match to the NY Times sent me. His only comment was "Jesus!" - This is only for the strong stomached:
http://i.imgur.com/C2IxW.jpg

rutt

Damon Winter is the only photographer I know of who:

1. shoots almost completely in color, and
2. B.D. loves.

It says a lot.

Patti

bdcolen wrote:

First, in response to Rutt's explanation, and the response to it - I was so stunned by the photo I didn't put 1+1 together in terms of Damon Winter and his campaign coverage. I certainly understand people not liking this. And I can also understand someone 'not getting it.' It is far, far from the usual tragedy/dead body shot - although because of the dust it is somewhat similar to some 9/11 shots. It has an almost posed composition and formalism, and an unusual color palate But I guess I have trouble with the 'I could do better' response. To those who can, or say they have, done better - I say - Show us.

Here's a link a former TA of mine - and shooter for SIPA whose work has appeared everywhere from Paris Match to the NY Times sent me. His only comment was "Jesus!" - This is only for the strong stomached:
http://i.imgur.com/C2IxW.jpg

For the strong stomached is right. It is a very disturbing photo and illustrates for me what an overwhelming task for all involved. Where you must have to go in your psyche to cope with the practicalities of dealing with the sheer number of victims boggles the mind.

Wil Davis

bdcolen wrote:

snip…
This is only for the strong stomached:
http://i.imgur.com/C2IxW.jpg

EMTs face similar situations every day, although not on the same scale. I have a sister who is a nurse and as part of her training has had to work in operating theatres, and also did a stint as an EMT, and she says that once the adrenalin kicks in, your focus is getting the job done, and that's what you have to do; although you never really forget, you just put it to the back of your mind and deal with it later.

It's a job I don't think I could ever do…

- Wil

bdcolen

Wil Davis wrote:

EMTs face similar situations every day, although not on the same scale. I have a sister who is a nurse and as part of her training has had to work in operating theatres, and also did a stint as an EMT, and she says that once the adrenalin kicks in, your focus is getting the job done, and that's what you have to do; although you never really forget, you just put it to the back of your mind and deal with it later.

It's a job I don't think I could ever do…

- Wil

That's all absolutely true, Wil. And it's a large part of the explanation for the 'sick' humor and seemingly tasteless chatter one hears in ERs, Trauma Units, ORs, and similar high-stress medical and trauma environments; it's a way for them to relieve some of the stress. When I first started covering medicine, I was appalled by the kinds of things I'd overhear. But the longer I hung out in ERs, ORs, ICUs, and NICUs, and the more I came to understand the culture, the more I 'got it.'

What we too often forget is that our 'first responders,' be they EMTs, search and rescue personnel, or, for that matter, personnel in trauma units, can suffer from PSTD that's every bit as debilitating and 'real' as that suffered by trauma victims themselves.

Patti

bdcolen wrote:

That's all absolutely true, Wil. And it's a large part of the explanation for the 'sick' humor and seemingly tasteless chatter one hears in ERs, Trauma Units, ORs, and similar high-stress medical and trauma environments; it's a way for them to relieve some of the stress. When I first started covering medicine, I was appalled by the kinds of things I'd overhear. But the longer I hung out in ERs, ORs, ICUs, and NICUs, and the more I came to understand the culture, the more I 'got it.'

What we too often forget is that our 'first responders,' be they EMTs, search and rescue personnel, or, for that matter, personnel in trauma units, can suffer from PSTD that's every bit as debilitating and 'real' as that suffered by trauma victims themselves.

And it's not just trauma staff, it's those of us who work with terminal patients, disabled patients too. Sometimes you just have to go to the black humour side of things to keep it together at work or you'd be in tears a good bit of your day.

Richard

I've been thinking about this shot for a while now and it has made me reflect on art and journalism. My first reactions went something like this: great formal values, but with so many dead bodies around, how could you miss, assuming you're on the scene and can still focus on photography? The story of the earthquake is one of death, destruction, grief and fear. This pic only shows us death--where's the rest? On refection, I went and looked up a few of the iconic images that I recall from the Vietnam war. It made me realize that it makes little sense to insist that one image show the whole story. The image comes with text (and other images), so the viewer can create the context if he doesn't already understand it.

This image is powerful but subtle as well. The destruction is implied by the dust that covers the body rather than a heap of rubble in the background. I don't know that the legs of the survivor are particularly well dressed, but they are clean, which captures the arbitrariness of the disaster. Will this become an iconic image? I have no idea, but it will certainly remain in my mind for a long time to come. Thanks, BD, for posting it.

Tina Manley

There are lots of Damon Winter's photos featured in the NY Times Haiti photo site:

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/photo/2010-haiti/index.html?hp

along with quite a few other very good ones. Just keep hitting the forward arrow.

Tina

bdcolen

Tina Manley wrote:

There are lots of Damon Winter's photos featured in the NY Times Haiti photo site:

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/photo/2010-haiti/index.html?hp

along with quite a few other very good ones. Just keep hitting the forward arrow.

Tina

Thanks for this link, Tina - There is some amazing stuff in this gallery.

Patti

Thanks Tina. I heard a quote from Wycliffe Jean tonight on TV, apparently some Haitians he's involved with ( I assume living in the US) asked him to tell his audience they don't need any more photo ops. They need aid. When does covering the news cross the line into the realm of exploitation of the despair and pain of the people involved? I don't mean to be argumentative and I know this is an age old question but as photo journalists, when/how do you draw that line?