60d: anybody seen the rumored specs yet?

divamum

Nothing yet at canonrumors other than that a 60d announcement next month is expected, but I'm wondering if any other sites have leaked info?

I've been sitting on my hands HOPING that a 60d might be in the works soon - I love the 7d, but I don't actually *need* some of its more sports-orientated features, and if a 60d incorporates the things I do need at a lower price - especially if it addresses some of the things I don't like about the 50d - I'm golden.

Just wondering.

mercphoto

divamum wrote:

Nothing yet at canonrumors other than that a 60d announcement next month is expected, but I'm wondering if any other sites have leaked info?

I've been sitting on my hands HOPING that a 60d might be in the works soon - I love the 7d, but I don't actually *need* some of its more sports-orientated features, and if a 60d incorporates the things I do need at a lower price - especially if it addresses some of the things I don't like about the 50d - I'm golden.

Just wondering.

I'm actually confused by how the 7D fits into the x0D line in general. I mean, with the advent of the 7D does Canon really need a 60D?

divamum

Much discussed over at canonrumors in comments to posts (if you can face wading through all the contentious nonsense that gets posted there), but general consencus = yes.

Short version:

Rebels=non-pro handling/features/build ~$700
7d=near-pro handling/af/complexity/features/build, ~$1700

A lot of folks feel that the 7d is to sports photographers what the 5d is to portrait/wedding folks.

xxd fits between the Rebels and Xd cameras both in terms of features and price at around ~$1100 (price now falling, but that's where it stayed for a while). The 50d is nearing the the typical 15-18mo EOL cycle so it would seem that rumors of a 60d are reasonable.

ziggy53

The Canon 40D and 50D were announced around 12 months apart, so it was thought (by some) that Canon would reduce design cycle times to try to capture more market in the prosumer line of dSLRs. I suspect that both the 7D and the recession played a role in the current situation of an 18 month design cycle to next model. Whether the new model is actually introduced next month depends upon Canon marketing strategy, but i have no doubt that something is ready and in the works.

A Canon 60D would possibly also be a landmark of sorts. It will be 10 years since the Canon D30, the arguably first semi-professional dSLR at a (somewhat) affordable $3000USD price. (Compared to the dSLRs before it this was a very good price.)

It was the Canon D60 that finally hit critical mass for Canon with a sub-$2000 price tag and 6 MPixels. This coincided with the Nikon D100, at a similar price and rating (although DPReview rated the Nikon D100 as slightly better.) This will be the 8th anniversary for the D60 announcement in Feb., so I suspect Canon might make it memorable. A 60D model may be just the ticket.

A single image processor version of the 7D might be a logical guess. I do wonder if the Digic IV is up to the task, or if a Digic V would be required? A single processor is used in the 5D MKII so possibly a single processor would do for a 60D as well.

craig_d

ziggy53 wrote:

A single image processor version of the 7D might be a logical guess. I do wonder if the Digic IV is up to the task, or if a Digic V would be required? A single processor is used in the 5D MKII so possibly a single processor would do for a 60D as well.

A single-processor 60D should be quite doable, since they would no doubt intentionally reduce the burst rate to leave people with a reason to buy the 7D. The AF system might be more like the 50D than the 7D as well.

On the one hand I think there's room for a 60D if Canon wants to do one (and they almost certainly do); but I really wish Canon and Nikon would both simplify their offerings a bit. I see so many questions online (especially on Amazon's photography forums) along the lines of, "I want to buy my first DSLR but there are too many to choose from and I'm totally confused. What should I buy?" Canon alone have nine DSLR models currently (XS, XSi, T1i, 50D, 7D, 5D Mark II, 1D Mark III, 1D Mark IV, 1Ds Mark III -- presumably the 1D Mark III will be discontinued before long, but they still list it), and that's not even counting the 40D, which is discontinued but still pretty easy to come by. Of course, that pales next to the 25 totally confusing models of PowerShot that are currently listed on Canon USA's web site (how is anyone supposed to make sense of that?), but it's still a bit much.

If it were up to me, I'd want to cut the EOS DSLR list down to no more than six models:

1. cheap beginner (XS)
2. beginner with some money or a need for video (T1i cut down to 12 MP)
3. advanced consumer (7D cut down to 12-15 MP)
4. full-frame on a budget (5D Mark II)
5. pro sports (1D Mark IV)
6. pro everything else (1Ds Mark III)

By dropping the XSi and effectively merging the xxD and 7D, the confusion is eased in the area where it hurts most; the upper echelons aren't that crowded to begin with, and the customers in that range should have more of a clue than beginners. We would be left with two choices for beginners, two for intermediate shooters and pros without much money, and two high-end models. Arguably one could push for dropping the 1D as well, but I think many sports shooters like the 1.3x crop factor for the little boost it gives their telephoto lenses.

cab.in.boston

craig_d wrote:

If it were up to me, I'd want to cut the EOS DSLR list down to no more than six models:

1. cheap beginner (XS)
2. beginner with some money or a need for video (T1i cut down to 12 MP)
3. advanced consumer (7D cut down to 12-15 MP)
4. full-frame on a budget (5D Mark II)
5. pro sports (1D Mark IV)
6. pro everything else (1Ds Mark III)

By dropping the XSi and effectively merging the xxD and 7D, the confusion is eased in the area where it hurts most; the upper echelons aren't that crowded to begin with, and the customers in that range should have more of a clue than beginners. We would be left with two choices for beginners, two for intermediate shooters and pros without much money, and two high-end models. Arguably one could push for dropping the 1D as well, but I think many sports shooters like the 1.3x crop factor for the little boost it gives their telephoto lenses.

Do that but keep the xxD, and that's essentially the Nikon lineup, where the D90 (currently, anyway) slots in at position 2.5. I consider the D90 as essentially "advanced consumer" and D300s as "prosumer DX." There are rumblings for a DX sensor in a true pro body (D3DX) that would then almost be equivalent to the 1D MkIV.

From the Nikon perspective, I wish they could do something with the model numbering system. The Dxxxx/Dxx/Dxxx/Dx arrangement isn't really very clear, which leads me to believe that the D90's replacement will be called something like D7000. At least Canon's numbers decrease from the xxxD > xxD > 7D > 5D > 1D.

divamum

To me, the xD series are actually for pros who either can't justify the price tag or who want a smaller body, as well as advanced consumers. Other than that, I would agree with you. I would have thought that the xsi will probably be phased out pretty soon - I love mine, but the Ti1 is essentially the same camera with video and it seems to be redundandant sandwiched between it and the XS.

In the meantime, if anybody hears any 60d specs, do share - I really need a new body by mid-March (if not before) and if the 60d is a wash want to grab a 50d while they're cheap.

craig_d

cab.in.boston wrote:

Do that but keep the xxD, and that's essentially the Nikon lineup, where the D90 (currently, anyway) slots in at position 2.5. I consider the D90 as essentially "advanced consumer" and D300s as "prosumer DX."

I think of the D90 as competing more with the Rebel T1i than the 50D, so I'd say position 2. The D90 is closer to the T1i's street price point (according to Amazon today) and in many ways the two are similar in features. The main way in which the D90 is more similar to the 50D is that both have a top LCD. The D300s seems to be somewhere between the 50D and the 7D, from what I know about it. Certainly it's lower in MPs than the 7D, but that's normal for mid-level Nikons compared to mid-level Canons.

For Nikon, I'm less certain what I would do since I know Canon's product line better, but I think D3000, D90, D300s, D700, D3s, D3x would be the lineup I would recommend, with all other models dumped. Any unique and desireable features of the discontinued models (like the D5000's flip screen, if that's to your taste) could be merged into the models that remain. This list would then correspond more or less one-for-one to my Canon lineup above.

Not that I expect anyone at Canon or Nikon to be listening to me...

cab.in.boston

craig_d wrote:

I think of the D90 as competing more with the Rebel T1i than the 50D, so I'd say position 2. The D90 is closer to the T1i's street price point (according to Amazon today) and in many ways the two are similar in features.

That's true about the price point and basic feature set, however when I purchased (granted the T1i hadn't come out yet), I compared a 50D and a D90. I would not have considered a T1i. The Rebel bodies just didn't feel right in my hand. (I'm 6'5" and have largish hands, the smaller bodies just didn't fit.)

The main way in which the D90 is more similar to the 50D is that both have a top LCD. The D300s seems to be somewhere between the 50D and the 7D, from what I know about it. Certainly it's lower in MPs than the 7D, but that's normal for mid-level Nikons compared to mid-level Canons.

Yes, Nikon has seemed to say that 12MP is all you need. The only higher-res camera they have is the D3x. I know there are different schools of thought on MPs, but for my purposes, 12 is fine. That said, I'd guess that Nikon's next generation of bodies will probably go up to 15 or so, for marketing purposes if nothing else.

Dpreview rates both 7D and D300s the same (Highly Rec'd, with 2 x 9.5 and 4 x 9.0 ratings each). IMO, the only thing that would point me towards a 7D over a D300s (granted, I'm already in the Nikon camp) would be the 1080p video... however I really don't care about video in a DSLR. I've had my D90 for almost a year and I still have yet to even turn on video mode. If I were a Canonite, I would probably lust for a 7D in the same way that I currently lust for a D300s. Both are fine cameras, and just as I was told when I was shopping, pick whichever one suits you best, unless you are already invested in one system or the other, but you can't really go wrong either way.

For Nikon, I'm less certain what I would do since I know Canon's product line better, but I think D3000, D90, D300s, D700, D3s, D3x would be the lineup I would recommend, with all other models dumped. Any unique and desireable features of the discontinued models (like the D5000's flip screen, if that's to your taste) could be merged into the models that remain. This list would then correspond more or less one-for-one to my Canon lineup above.

Well, that's dumping just one model - the D5000 - which does not really appeal to me anyway, mostly because of that flip screen. Since they made it flip on the bottom, that renders it moot for tripod use, and it means they had to use the lower-res LCD, both of which make it a non-starter for me.

Anywho, it certainly seems that while both companies continue to try and out-do each other, in the end they always seem to end up with pretty much the same set of offerings, which is only natural for competitors. I have Canon friends and Nikon friends, and no one I know has any desire to switch.

Not that I expect anyone at Canon or Nikon to be listening to me...

Ditto.

Apologies to divamum, I wasn't intending to hijack the thread and turn it into a Canon vs. Nikon discussion.

StevenSzabo

Nikons number system has to be the most confusing thing they've dreamed out...it would make more sense to have the D300/700 type cameras be 2 digits, the D90 type have 3, then the D5000 etc already be on the right page, then of course the single digit kings. but hey, if they keep changing the numbers around it's good for confusing us consumer folk...

davev

StevenSzabo wrote:

Nikons number system has to be the most confusing thing they've dreamed out...it would make more sense to have the D300/700 type cameras be 2 digits, the D90 type have 3, then the D5000 etc already be on the right page, then of course the single digit kings. but hey, if they keep changing the numbers around it's good for confusing us consumer folk...

I'd like to see a numbering system that contains the year it was released in.

Canon 2010 Rebel xxx.
Canon 2010 xxD
Canon 2010 xD

It would take the guess work out of things while shopping used.
(like that friggin code on the "L" lenses. Just put the date it was made there)

PilotBrad

I too am hoping Canon announces a 60d in Feb.

I am currently using a Rebel, and while it is a fine camera, I too find it to be too small in my largish hands. I want a larger body with video, but without the 7D price tag.

divamum

Well, it's starting to trickle out (maybe). The two rumors I've seen (both on canon rumors) both suggest it will have an articulating screen. Is this a good thing or not for somebody who mainly anticipates shooting stills?

Unless this new camera incorporates something other than the electronic level from the 7d, I can see I'm going to have to pony up the big bucks instead. Aarrgh... I was SO hoping to have a better high ISO camera by March. Maybe it's time to snag a 50d cheap instead. ::muses::

ziggy53

divamum wrote:

Well, it's starting to trickle out (maybe). The two rumors I've seen (both on canon rumors) both suggest it will have an articulating screen. Is this a good thing or not for somebody who mainly anticipates shooting stills?

Unless this new camera incorporates something other than the electronic level from the 7d, I can see I'm going to have to pony up the big bucks instead. Aarrgh... I was SO hoping to have a better high ISO camera by March. Maybe it's time to snag a 50d cheap instead. ::muses::

An articulated LCD is a benefit for positioning the camera high or low while still being able to frame. For shooting above a crowd, for instance, or for shooting low to the ground without actually lying on the ground.

A Canon 50D still makes a lot of sense. I do recommend the addition of an ST-E2 just to allow better low-light focus for those venues that don't allow flash photography. (A flash with focus-assist for those venues that "do" allow flash.) DXOMark data seems to suggest that at an 8" x 10" print and smaller the 50D and 7D will produce similar results from RAW captures.

divamum

ziggy53 wrote:

An articulated LCD is a benefit for positioning the camera high or low while still being able to frame. For shooting above a crowd, for instance, or for shooting low to the ground without actually lying on the ground.

A Canon 50D still makes a lot of sense. I do recommend the addition of an ST-E2 just to allow better low-light focus for those venues that don't allow flash photography. (A flash with focus-assist for those venues that "do" allow flash.) DXOMark data seems to suggest that at an 8" x 10" print and smaller the 50D and 7D will produce similar results from RAW captures.

Speaking for myself I have an ste2 so that's not a dealbreaker (nice though it would be to have a built-in commander and also that the built-in one commands three instead of two groups of flashes. Not a dealbreaker, but nice.)

Still pondering.

PilotBrad

You've probably already seen it, but CR posted some updates to the 60D specs and rumors today.

- Articulating Screen
- Metal Body
- Upgraded 15.1 mp APS-C Sensor
- 720p/1080p Video at 30fps
- Electronic Level
- New Battery & Grip
- Price around $1190

The specs seem OK to me, but it reports a rumored May release. I really hope we see it (whatever it is) before then.

jeffreaux2

PilotBrad wrote:

You've probably already seen it, but CR posted some updates to the 60D specs and rumors today.

- Articulating Screen
- Metal Body
- Upgraded 15.1 mp APS-C Sensor
- 720p/1080p Video at 30fps
- Electronic Level
- New Battery & Grip
- Price around $1190

The specs seem OK to me, but it reports a rumored May release. I really hope we see it (whatever it is) before then.

I would use the heck out of an articulating screen for super low angle shots or for PJ type wedding work....with the camera held aloft.

The video doesn't tempt me.

The new battery is poor judgement. I have made an investment in batteries for the 50D. Why do they make it so I have to re-invest if I want a newer body?

Mega-pixels?....who really cares after 10?