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On-camera fill flash and flash compensation questions

ginger_55ginger_55 Registered Users Posts: 8,416 Major grins
edited July 31, 2005 in Technique
from me?????

I have the on camera 20D Canon flash, only. The only flash I will own for quite a while.

Stupid question, can I use it for fill in any way??? If so, what way, and how?
Please do not use jargon.......I can't translate.

No, I only have about 75.00 max to spend on ANYTHING, and it will be that was til next spring.

But I was trying to find out about the on camera. Might as well know about what I do have.

ginger
After all is said and done, it is the sweet tea.

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    ScottMcLeodScottMcLeod Registered Users Posts: 753 Major grins
    edited July 30, 2005
    ginger_55 wrote:
    from me?????

    I have the on camera 20D Canon flash, only. The only flash I will own for quite a while.

    Stupid question, can I use it for fill in any way??? If so, what way, and how?
    Please do not use jargon.......I can't translate.

    No, I only have about 75.00 max to spend on ANYTHING, and it will be that was til next spring.

    But I was trying to find out about the on camera. Might as well know about what I do have.

    ginger
    I can't say that I own a 20D, but on my D-reb with hacked firmware (opens up the 10D options), there's options for Fill Flash Compensation, and I usually knock it down a stop or so, and when i'm shooting, use a higher ISO as if I was shooting w/ natural light.

    I think i'm in the same boat as you though, I don't really understand flash yet, and hopefully getting my 420EX in a week or two will let me play around with it enough to maybe understand...
    - Scott
    http://framebyframe.ca
    [Bodies] Canon EOS 20D - Canon EOS 500
    [Lenses] Sigma APO 70-200 f/2.8 - Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 - Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 - Tamron XR Di 28-75mm f/2.8 - Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6
    [Flash] Sigma EF500 Super DG Flash
    [Tripod]     Manfrotto 055 Pro Black
    [Head] 484RC2, 200RC2
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    AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited July 30, 2005
    fill flash and flash exposure compensation
    learn about flash compensation. the short answer is yes - and you should simply experiment, i do it by feel.

    it's on page 96 of your [url=javascript:next('EOS20DIM-EN.pdf')]20d manual[/url]

    30258697-L.jpg

    and here's an interesting article on fill flash.
    Andy

    Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
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    howardhoward Registered Users Posts: 89 Big grins
    edited July 30, 2005
    I agree with Andy you should experiment. Here's a place to start, with the camera in AV mode set the flash to -1.66. That should help to fill the shadows. A word of warning, in low light you will get the equivalent of red-eye even with birds.

    ginger_55 wrote:
    from me?????

    I have the on camera 20D Canon flash, only. The only flash I will own for quite a while.

    Stupid question, can I use it for fill in any way??? If so, what way, and how?
    Please do not use jargon.......I can't translate.

    No, I only have about 75.00 max to spend on ANYTHING, and it will be that was til next spring.

    But I was trying to find out about the on camera. Might as well know about what I do have.

    ginger
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    AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited July 30, 2005
    also the onboard flash won't work well with many lenses - like your telephoto...
    Andy

    Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
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    ginger_55ginger_55 Registered Users Posts: 8,416 Major grins
    edited July 30, 2005
    In my defense, I did read that page in the manual yesterday. I studied it up and down, didn't understand it.

    I am exhausted right now, couldn't think if I tried, but I did want to say that I did look in the manual before posing the question. I also used it as fill a bit today, w food. Will see, think it worked, but that situation was kind of unusual. And I did not do "that page in the manual", as I don't understand it............yet.

    I have read up on a lot of other things, such as the focus issues, I am coming to a much better understanding there. I have to practice and experiment now. I am very glad I posted on the whipping post re the focus thing.

    Amazing what I didn't know.

    Thanks for your answers, am going to upload today's stuff, or try, before crashing, hopefully.

    ginger (I know that it won't work with the telephoto, or I would imagine that it would not "fill" a bird across a football field. I am trying to figure out what it will do. It will take church baptism photos, often with annoying shadows that the church doesn't mind.) That depends partly on how many doors are open and how close to the wall the people are standing. NO one cares about that anymore.)

    Thanks.............
    After all is said and done, it is the sweet tea.
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    pathfinderpathfinder Super Moderators Posts: 14,698 moderator
    edited July 31, 2005
    Ginger, I use the on camera flash on the 20D for fill frequently. Shoot in AV mode - with a normal focal length lens - for me that is usually the Tamron 28-75 Di zoom - and I frequently use -2/3 of a stop of Flash Exposure Compensation as described in the manual in Andy's post.

    Most of the engine shots I posted from the BMW MOA rally were shot that way - deep shadows in bright sunlight - a good place to add fill flash. Or portraits with the sun behind people also.

    The nice thing is that the 20D does is so well, that is not noticeable at all. :): Should help with shadows for your baptism shots too. You can tape a half a ping pong ball over the flash as a difffuser - or a handkerchief - or curve a piece of paper in front of the flash tube to enlarge the light source. Even better though, is the use of a 550ex or a 580ex for fill flash. A great little trick that I find I use a lot now that I know how easy it is to do. thumb.gif
    Pathfinder - www.pathfinder.smugmug.com

    Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
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    ginger_55ginger_55 Registered Users Posts: 8,416 Major grins
    edited July 31, 2005
    Thanks, Pathfinder. I looked a minute ago, before I even saw your post. I did use the flash in 3 out of the 4 BBQ shots I posted on the Chal thread last night. The EC just happened to be on -0.33. Seemed to work well. There was a fire involved, I thought, Oh lord, I am just going to get the meat silhouetted, then I thought to try the flash, thought I had it in the LCD thingy, seems to have worked.

    Why I was really confused, in the manual, was the minus EC, well, I still don't understand (and believe me, I can function w/o understanding). I thought the EC would affect the photo lightness and/or darkness, I do not "understand" how it works alone on the flash w/o affecting the whole photo.

    Maybe I did not read it thoroughly enough, all I care about is that it works, though. Smile.

    Thanks, ginger
    After all is said and done, it is the sweet tea.
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