"natural" and "glitz" pageant headshots

MissB

I was recently approached by someone looking to get "natural" and "glitz" head shots of her daughter for her pageant portfolio. I promptly googled the two for a bit of pre-response research. And I was a little grossed out by some of the "glitz" search responses that came up. I have an unclear idea of what she is expecting. The "glitz" photographers seem to make these children literally look like baby dolls.. with the oversized eyes, plastic skin and asteric catch lights. Not to mention the flashy backgrounds.. I understand that these young girls are made up to look like little adults.. but fake porcelin dolls?? My editing skills are pretty good i think.. what is really expected here. What is YOUR expierence on the industry standard for this type of portfolio work.. and can you please share some examples of both.

thank you so much!!
miss B

Scott_Quier

There is an excellent chance I'm going to get slammed for this comment but.....

I have a personal aversion to the whole idea of what these parents are doing to/with these so very young children. I personally think it borders on child abuse but ... they didn't ask my opinion.

But, were I approached by a parent for this I would be quick to take a pass on this one. But, that's just me.

D'Buggs

I honestly believe that these *pagents* are more to do with the parents vanity than anything else. That said, it's a legal activity and a job offer. And it also sounds like a challenge,,, but I wouldn't know where to start either.

VayCayMom

my input and a head shot
I have personal experience in this field ( not the photography part). Until Jon Benet Ramsey came became headline news I had never seen anything like that before, even though my teenager was competing in pageants.

She competed in a tiny pageant as a fluke, we are talking a 15 yr old ugly duckling, no make up and double banded headgear for her braces..After her positive experience she dreamed of one day dancing on the Miss America stage. After after 7 years of hard work, academic excellence, dance lessons, community service, logging in one year over 5,000 hours volunteering in the field of domestic violence she did indeed become Miss Arizona and competed for Miss America in Atlantic City on the Boardwalk.

What you are most likely familiar with are NOT the norm. I just did a headshot for a little girl in a wonderful FAMILY program that allows BOYS and EVERYONE gets an award. NO make up allowed.

So before you turn someone away check to see what type of program or pageant it is.
If they want one of those way over the top head shots, the plastic ones, with flipper teeth lol, suggest they go to a photographer that specialzes in that. But perhaps they might just want one with a softer focus, and of course all of this depends on this being age appropriate.

I am very proud of the young woman my daughter has become, scholarship pageants played a big role I am sure. I just hate it when people see the crap on HBO and think that all pageants are like that.

Here is the head shot I did for this 5 yr old for the Miss Cinderella program. I still need to clone the background, 5 yr old children can barely sit still and my backdrop was small.

goldilocksandmy3bears

there is a new show on TLC (not sure if this is a worldwide program or not) called Toddlers and Tiarras. Perhaps you can get some ideas off of there..

leaforte

The case of Bonnet Ramsey put this subject so much on the front burner and influenced so many folks that even if you please the client, an expertly done capture may be dismissed, and/or criticized by the eyes of the masses. That said, I think that, with research, and a sharp eye for detail, it is a shot that could be pulled of quite eloquently.

run_kmc

I think you'll have varied expectations from parents. If I was approached to do a shoot for an event like this, I'd probably decline if there was even the slightest chance I would have to do this.

Yikes.

jeffreaux2

MissB wrote:

I was recently approached by someone looking to get "natural" and "glitz" head shots of her daughter for her pageant portfolio. I promptly googled the two for a bit of pre-response research. And I was a little grossed out by some of the "glitz" search responses that came up. I have an unclear idea of what she is expecting. The "glitz" photographers seem to make these children literally look like baby dolls.. with the oversized eyes, plastic skin and asteric catch lights. Not to mention the flashy backgrounds.. I understand that these young girls are made up to look like little adults.. but fake porcelin dolls?? My editing skills are pretty good i think.. what is really expected here. What is YOUR expierence on the industry standard for this type of portfolio work.. and can you please share some examples of both.

thank you so much!!
miss B

I was approached by a client who I have done a decent amount of work for about doing this type of work....natural and glitz. After being shown samples....I declined. Surely it's a matter of opinion, but even in my everyday portraits I am very careful when it comes to doing ANYTHING that will alter the appearance of my subjects. I'm not a fan of oversmoothing...slimming....eye color changes and the like. I even draw the line at removing moles or scars unless specifically asked. Call me old fashioned (Ive been called worse:D ) but I just didnt get it....and didn't want to take what I call photography in that direction. Im sure it makes for a thriving business for other photographers...and photoshop users....but it just isn't "ME", and I am lucky to be in the position to NOT have to "do anything for a buck".

In any event, you have to make your own decision, but I totally agree that the "glitz" look is pretty disturbing.

MissB

Ok so, I asked the mother to send me a headshot of her and I would try my hand at this glitz editing. I don't know if I have it in me to make her look like a china doll. So this is as extreme as I can get without feeling wierd. What do you think?

VayCayMom

Well the in the original photo the girl is not wearing all the makeup that those girls on on the link from kmc started with. I have watched those programs and those kids have a TON of make up on when they get the photos done, THEN the heavy photoshop makes it all even more intense.
I am wondering what this mom is thinking?? Hmmm I don't know if you will be able to make her happy because a "glitzy" head shot starts with makeup to the eyeteeth. and what a waste of your talent .

MissB

VayCayMom wrote:

Well the in the original photo the girl is not wearing all the makeup that those girls on on the link from kmc started with. I have watched those programs and those kids have a TON of make up on when they get the photos done, THEN the heavy photoshop makes it all even more intense.
I am wondering what this mom is thinking?? Hmmm I don't know if you will be able to make her happy because a "glitzy" head shot starts with makeup to the eyeteeth. and what a waste of your talent .

I was thinking the same thing about her makeup.. Im not sure what the expectation is.. I CAN say.. I wont be doing this as a regular thing...it is a slow time of year and im grateful for the business .. im sure im not the only one here with a dry bank account

Art Scott

VayCayMom wrote:

Well the in the original photo the girl is not wearing all the makeup that those girls on on the link from kmc started with. I have watched those programs and those kids have a TON of make up on when they get the photos done, THEN the heavy photoshop makes it all even more intense.
I am wondering what this mom is thinking?? Hmmm I don't know if you will be able to make her happy because a "glitzy" head shot starts with makeup to the eyeteeth. and what a waste of your talent .

1K%

I wonder what goes thru a judges mind or a taolen agents mind when they see those china doll shots, because they know very well that is not the person......maybe it is to show them that the child will sit still and behave long enuff to ahve that done to them..........I prefer as little make up as possible on any one I am shooting......the wrong type of make up can wreak havoc on exposures.....es;ecially if it has any glitter in it........

pwp

My personal take is that I wouldn't take the job, dry bank account or not. IMHO, this type of pagentry is just wrong and sets unrealistic expectations on our daughters, while giving them the wrong impression of what true beauty is. There ARE legit pageants out there, which may actually build a girl's sense of worth and esteem, but this is not it.

Anyway, if you're not 100% comfortable with it, I would suggest not agreeing to the job. This client may/will probably be difficult to please and always want just a little more. And once you've done this sort of work for someone, expect someone else to approach you looking for the same.

M2C on the edit: it's obviously washed out and lacking the "pop" that the client is probably looking for. Instead of rosy cheeks, they are gray and lifeless. If you really want to serve the client, I suggest starting with a shot YOU take, so you can control light, exposure, etc.

goldilocksandmy3bears

run_kmc wrote:

I think you'll have varied expectations from parents. If I was approached to do a shoot for an event like this, I'd probably decline if there was even the slightest chance I would have to do this.

Yikes.

Those kids don't even look real!

goldilocksandmy3bears

Do you all feel differently if an adult was asking for this "glitzy photoshop" vs. this done on a child??

Darren Troy C

goldilocksandmy3bears wrote:

Do you all feel differently if an adult was asking for this "glitzy photoshop" vs. this done on a child??

NO difference at all!! Not to me, anyway. This stuff is down right DISTURBING! I wish you the best of luck MissB if you take this on but goodness gracious THAT AINT RIGHT! (Speaking about the "look" in the attached link.)

lizzard_nyc

Miss B,
You have unbeivable PP skills--if anyone can pull this of it's you.

As a parent, I'm against it and so I wouldn't put my daughter in one of those completely over the top competitions.
As a person learning to be a photographer (beginner) well... It's not illegal and like you said you could use the money.

They will get the photo either from you or elsewhere, but it will happen, might as well make some money and also overcome this huge challenge and I know you will rock at the "natural" shots.

Toshido

I personally would do it.

I would consider it more digital art then photography though. Definitely not what I do for fun but it is simply a job.

kres

Okay, when I looked at run_kmc's link, I was not horrified.

I laughed.

Hard.

The warping of reality in these shots are redonkulous. I will admit that the baby picture with extended lashes and lip gloss did give me a shudder. I guess I found my line there.

Now, on some of the better pictures, the technical finish was quite impressive - regardless of the shock value here, there is a talent to that level of transformation.

The whole mess is a slippery slope, but if you keep your own boundaries centered, I don't see why taking on a gig or two to get a feel for the market/(okay, this next word does hurt a bit..)art is a bad thing. If your comfort meter OR your moral meter pings then decline.

That said, personally, I'm not sure that I could keep a steady enough hand on the mouse for the laughing fits to do that to a photo myself. I would feel a bit creeped out around someone that saw it as "beautiful" - but that's just me.

Megs14

run_kmc wrote:

I think you'll have varied expectations from parents. If I was approached to do a shoot for an event like this, I'd probably decline if there was even the slightest chance I would have to do this.

Yikes.

Those photos are seriously creepy

MissB

Hhaha!! no wonder this mom said its hard to find a photographer that does this kind of work. I think the mother and I both agreed on a comfort level for the glitz shots. I told her I would be happy to do the natural without a glitch.. and I would take the base pics for the glitz portfolio and help her develop a unique idea... with some retouching.. however the doll look creeps me out.. and I may not be the gal to do the retouching in that department. She agreed that the doll look creeps her out too and her and her husband both want to try and avoid that.

I am not a judgemental person and I don't think its child abuse if the child thinks its fun and its like playing dress up. However, If I can sense that the child does not enjoy this and the parent is being pushy .. I will back out. As a mother of three kids.. (two girls and a boy) I cannot imagine exploiting them to appease my own vanity. But if they wanted to do this for the pure joy of it... as long as they have a healthy well rounded perspecive on it.. I would let them do it. I think it has to be about moderation and priority.

Toshido

MissB wrote:

I am not a judgemental person and I don't think its child abuse if the child thinks its fun and its like playing dress up. However, If I can sense that the child does not enjoy this and the parent is being pushy

At the risk of completely derailing this conversation I want to comment on this.

I find with my 4 year old I occasionally need to push him into doing things, and at the time he certainly appears to not enjoy it. For example last summer was his first year in soccer. It was a huge fight to get him to even go onto the field, let alone stay on the field. But last week he was asking to play soccer and said he wants to do it again.

So pushing a kid and the kid complaining is, imo, normal parenting. The serious issue is how the parent is pushing.
I did it with a lot of cuddling and talking to my son and awards for a good effort.

MissB

Toshido wrote:

At the risk of completely derailing this conversation I want to comment on this.

I find with my 4 year old I occasionally need to push him into doing things, and at the time he certainly appears to not enjoy it. For example last summer was his first year in soccer. It was a huge fight to get him to even go onto the field, let alone stay on the field. But last week he was asking to play soccer and said he wants to do it again.

So pushing a kid and the kid complaining is, imo, normal parenting. The serious issue is how the parent is pushing.
I did it with a lot of cuddling and talking to my son and awards for a good effort.

I totally agree.. my son is the same way with martial arts... but I would think you could tell the difference...well atleast I hope so