Shopping without risk of identity theft

NeilL

In Dhahran Mall, Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia








Neil

.

TonyCooper

Interesting pix, and good use of color for dramatic effect.

But, is that a cigarette in the hand of the woman on the right?

NeilL

TonyCooper wrote:

Interesting pix, and good use of color for dramatic effect.

But, is that a cigarette in the hand of the woman on the right?

Hi Tony, thanks.

No not a cigarette, but a phone in the palm of her hand.

I see you are also concerned about identity theft! D

Neil

Dogdots

Very interesting shot -- I like the red and black colors in the photos

Must of been Valentines....but I think I heard on the news they took all things concerning Valentines day out of the stores

NeilL

Dogdots wrote:

Very interesting shot -- I like the red and black colors in the photos

Must of been Valentines....but I think I heard on the news they took all things concerning Valentines day out of the stores

Thanks, Mary. Nice of you to comment! For me, the most interesting things about this shot are the technical challenges. Public photography is even more fraught here than it is becoming in the West, so to be as inconspicuous and unobjectionable as possible I did not use flash nor a tripod. As you can see, the ambient light was very dim, the strongest light was backlighting, and the subjects were moving. Not easy, I think! It has some big faults. The front woman is too cut off, I think, and the radial blur filter I used in post has caused an undesirable kind of haloing in the lower portion of the image. I should have another go at that.

The main reason for me showing it was to illustrate the technical challenges. But I did also find the colors idea attractive. And then something about the body language of the two women is so very quintessentially Saudi. In the case of both males and females the constant, every few minutes, adjusting of the head veil is a universal signature gesture. Hard to explain, but it "colors" every social scene, as much as the black all the women are wearing, and the checker-like pinkish-red pattern of the males' scarves. One might learn over time to speak Arabic without too much of an accent, but one could not pass as Saudi without being able to perform fluently and authentically the repertoire of actions for adjusting the head veil. So, they function as a proof of identity, of cultural belonging, ironically even while hiding individual identity.

The colors in this shot are also quintessentially the colors of Saudi society - black, a pinkish-red, white and gold.

So, even in its gaucheness, this shot is subtly a microcosm representation of Saudi society.

Neil

PS I think you are right about the Valentine's Day thing.

Dogdots

NeilL wrote:

Thanks, Mary. Nice of you to comment! For me, the most interesting things about this shot are the technical challenges. Public photography is even more fraught here than it is becoming in the West, so to be as inconspicuous and unobjectionable as possible I did not use flash nor a tripod. As you can see, the ambient light was very dim, the strongest light was backlighting, and the subjects were moving. Not easy, I think! It has some big faults. The front woman, I think , is too cut off, and the radial blur filter I used in post has caused an undesirable kind of haloing in the lower portion of the image. I should have another go at that.

The main reason for me showing it was to illustrate the technical challenges. But I did also find the colors idea attractive. And then something about the body language of the two women is so very quintessentially Saudi. In the case of both males and females the constant, every few minutes, adjusting of the head veil is a universal signature gesture. Hard to explain, but it "colors" every social scene, as much as the black all the women are wearing, and the checker-like pinkish-red pattern of the males' scarves. One might learn over time to speak Arabic without too much of an accent, but one could not pass as Saudi without being able to perform fluently and authentically the repertoire of actions for adjusting the head veil. So, they function as a proof of identity, of cultural belonging, ironically even while hiding individual identity.

The colors in this shot are also quintessentially the colors of Saudi society - black, a pinkish-red, white and gold.

So, even in its gaucheness, this shot is subtly a microcosm representation of Saudi society.

Neil

PS I think you are right about the Valentine's Day thing.

Very interesting information. I never would of thought that a simple task of adjusting ones veil could say so much. Also what I found interesting is both languages on the bag the lady is carrying.

Do the Saudi colors represent anything in particular?

While it might of been a challenging photo to take I think you did a fine job with it

The_Fat_Zebra

Dogdots wrote:

Very interesting information. I never would of thought that a simple task of adjusting ones veil could say so much. Also what I found interesting is both languages on the bag the lady is carrying.

Do the Saudi colors represent anything in particular?

While it might of been a challenging photo to take I think you did a fine job with it

I second that, interesting photo! That's why I like this forum so much, many people from different places with diverse backgrounds and stories
On the technical side, the PP got me fooled: at first sight I thought 'nice use of dragging the shutter - I'd never dare using flash in public on an unsuspecting subject'... That said, I like what you did with it.

NeilL

Dogdots wrote:

Very interesting information. I never would of thought that a simple task of adjusting ones veil could say so much. Also what I found interesting is both languages on the bag the lady is carrying.

Do the Saudi colors represent anything in particular?

While it might of been a challenging photo to take I think you did a fine job with it

Thanks for the encouragement, Mary!

The colors I described are not the official Saudi colors, the flag is green and white. But they are the colors which are always present in a crowd of Saudis, men and women. The women all in back, the men in white thobes with pink-red head scarves and black bands, and both wearing very gold gold.

Like everywhere, the Saudis love to shop, they love a bargain, and the malls are very important social places.

Neil

NeilL

The_Fat_Zebra wrote:

I second that, interesting photo! That's why I like this forum so much, many people from different places with diverse backgrounds and stories
On the technical side, the PP got me fooled: at first sight I thought 'nice use of dragging the shutter - I'd never dare using flash in public on an unsuspecting subject'... That said, I like what you did with it.

Nice to read your comments, thanks.

I think "dragging the shutter" has a much better ring to it than radial blur filter, kinda chic and louche at once (though to be honest I don't know what it means D)! Is it panning?

Neil

bdcolen

NeilL wrote:

In Dhahran Mall, Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia








Neil

.

Wonderful image - but two nits to pick - First, I wish we could see the feet of the woman with the Sale bag - the composition would be even stronger that way. And second, the title really threw me. This is a great example of a image that speaks volumes for itself - the colors, the shopping bag, the cell phone - and the Medieval garb - wonderful!

NeilL

bdcolen wrote:

Wonderful image - but two nits to pick - First, I wish we could see the feet of the woman with the Sale bag - the composition would be even stronger that way. And second, the title really threw me. This is a great example of a image that speaks volumes for itself - the colors, the shopping bag, the cell phone - and the Medieval garb - wonderful!

Thanks for the encouragement, B.D.!

Yes, I certainly agree about the foreground being too cut. A matter of more experience. I think I should have used AI and panned with that front figure. All a bit unpredictable and experimental for me in this shooting situation, so I lost concentration on the composition. One pays the price!

I hear you about the title. Would "Red-uced" have been better or worse?:D

Neil

bdcolen

NeilL wrote:

Thanks for the encouragement, B.D.!

Yes, I certainly agree about the foreground being too cut. A matter of more experience. I think I should have used AI and panned with that front figure. All a bit unpredictable and experimental for me in this shooting situation, so I lost concentration on the composition. One pays the price!

I hear you about the title. Would "Red-uced" have been better or worse?:D

Neil

Don't ask.

NeilL

The_Fat_Zebra wrote:

I second that, interesting photo! That's why I like this forum so much, many people from different places with diverse backgrounds and stories
On the technical side, the PP got me fooled: at first sight I thought 'nice use of dragging the shutter - I'd never dare using flash in public on an unsuspecting subject'... That said, I like what you did with it.

Ah, yes! I now know what dragging the shutter is. It's of course one of the main platforms of the Strobist's technique. Thanks for reminding me of it!

However, that technique is not meant to work without the use of flash, and even if flash is used it might not be successful with moving and backlit subjects.

Neil

Patti

NeilL wrote:

Thanks, Mary. Nice of you to comment! For me, the most interesting things about this shot are the technical challenges. Public photography is even more fraught here than it is becoming in the West, so to be as inconspicuous and unobjectionable as possible I did not use flash nor a tripod. As you can see, the ambient light was very dim, the strongest light was backlighting, and the subjects were moving. Not easy, I think! It has some big faults. The front woman is too cut off, I think, and the radial blur filter I used in post has caused an undesirable kind of haloing in the lower portion of the image. I should have another go at that.

The main reason for me showing it was to illustrate the technical challenges. But I did also find the colors idea attractive. And then something about the body language of the two women is so very quintessentially Saudi. In the case of both males and females the constant, every few minutes, adjusting of the head veil is a universal signature gesture. Hard to explain, but it "colors" every social scene, as much as the black all the women are wearing, and the checker-like pinkish-red pattern of the males' scarves. One might learn over time to speak Arabic without too much of an accent, but one could not pass as Saudi without being able to perform fluently and authentically the repertoire of actions for adjusting the head veil. So, they function as a proof of identity, of cultural belonging, ironically even while hiding individual identity.

The colors in this shot are also quintessentially the colors of Saudi society - black, a pinkish-red, white and gold.

So, even in its gaucheness, this shot is subtly a microcosm representation of Saudi society.

Neil

PS I think you are right about the Valentine's Day thing.

Thanks for the back story. The cultural info adds to my enjoyment of your capture. The contrast of ancient garb with modern passtimes and technology is striking.
Many years ago while living in family student housing, I had to remove laundry from a washing machine that was assigned to our apt. for our time slot. It was a load of very colourful red lingerie. I waited around to see who all this rather sexy laundry belonged to. Low and behold, a Middle Eastern woman in veil etc. rescued the load. The contrast was quite remarkable.

NeilL

Patti wrote:

Thanks for the back story. The cultural info adds to my enjoyment of your capture. The contrast of ancient garb with modern passtimes and technology is striking.
Many years ago while living in family student housing, I had to remove laundry from a washing machine that was assigned to our apt. for our time slot. It was a load of very colourful red lingerie. I waited around to see who all this rather sexy laundry belonged to. Low and behold, a Middle Eastern woman in veil etc. rescued the load. The contrast was quite remarkable.

Very funny, and very eloquent anecdote!

You know, a turn around any of the malls here will discover a good number of shops selling women's clothes. Three or four of these will be selling abeyas and hijabs, the black coverall garments and head veils. The majority of the shops offer either designer labels and fashions from all over the world, with no regard to their modesty rating, or the most extravagant and exuberant gowns in the Arabic style, which would not be outdone in ostentation, richness of embellishment and overstatement by even the wildest imaginings of Hollywood dressers for a film about the Queen of Sheeba, feminine to a point which would shock Western sensibilities! The women wear these creations in their homes, into which only relatives are invited, in order to add to the prestige of their husbands.

Neil

michswiss

And this is all, ostensively, to save men from themselves? I've enjoyed reading the comments. I wouldn't worry about having missed the feet of the lady in the foreground. Excellent image.

I'm curious about the types of restrictions on public photography. I've been pushing the local envelope recently and am curious about your experiences.

NeilL

michswiss wrote:

And this is all, ostensively, to save men from themselves? I've enjoyed reading the comments. I wouldn't worry about having missed the feet of the lady in the foreground. Excellent image.

I'm curious about the types of restrictions on public photography. I've been pushing the local envelope recently and am curious about your experiences.

Thanks!

Adding to the unlikely mix of it all is another fact, and that is that because women are not permitted to work as sales assistants in shops, even in women only malls (yes, there are such!), they have to buy all their clothes, including lingerie, with the help of male sales assistants, who are mostly Pakistani! There can be no physical contact, and no fitting in store, and the women are always accompanied by male relatives.

Neil