Weekly Discussion Thread: The Wedding Photographer's Presence during a Ceremony

Agnieszka

Got an email from our lovely Heather with a suggestion for our this week's thread the other day:

Let's talk about your presence during a ceremony:

• Where do you stand?
• How much are you moving around?
• Where are your planned locations during the different parts of the ceremony (Like the ring exchange, communion, presentation)?
• How do you handle and plan ethnic weddings?
• Do you ever stand in the center aisle?

:lynnma

>> Shhhhhhht. Wanna see the other weekly threads? Click HERE.

Moogle Pepper

Agnieszka wrote:

Got an email from our lovely Heather with a suggestion for our this week's thread the other day:

Let's talk about your presence during a ceremony:

• Where do you stand?
• How much are you moving around?
• Where are your planned locations during the different parts of the ceremony (Like the ring exchange, communion, presentation)?
• How do you handle and plan ethnic weddings?
• Do you ever stand in the center aisle?

As a 2nd. I am off in a corner, moving about looking for spiffy things to shoot, shoot into, and details.

Snowgirl

I am too new to this to have much input. One wedding I did I was actually allowed to stand behind the officiant during the vows (no flash) which was cool - but cramped and scary.

Normally off to the side or, if there's a balcony, upstairs.

marikris

(As a 2nd) I try to complement where the principal is shooting. There has been one instance where we were allowed to stand behind the officiant (way behind), and times when we were able to go up the balcony. I shoot the audience from the sideline as well. I don't ever go in the center aisle unless particularly told by the principal. I tend to be very mobile, silent but swift. Like a ninja.

mmmatt

Obviously hit the front of the center isle for the procession, and then I try to step back a bit for the dad kiss without taking out a row of groomsmen. Some venues have a door behind the alter and that is a good way to get some shots from in front of the b&g. Outdoors it is usually pretty easy to get some from behind. I try to work the sides so I can get faces of both the wedding party and also family in the first few rows. when I have a 2nd shooting with me or I am shooting 2nd, the crowd reaction shots are easier to get. I'll sometimes go up to the the choir loft to get an overview, and sometimes I will have a 2nd body on a pod to shoot some pano shots from the back of the venue to stitch later. I then make sure I am back in the center isle and shoot there until rings and then the kiss. Usually about 1/2 way up the isle. Then shoot the b&g coming back up the isle and backpedaling looking for some nice emotion and some hugs, kisses and handshakes from the crowd. Out the door and then go get a few more of the wedding party coming up if possible. then I go into candid mode and start shooting anyone who looks interesting to me while keeping a constant eye on the b&g.

the whole time in the church I am moving quietly but quickly. I stay low and don't ever walk in the space between the front row of pews and the alter or cut through rows of pews even if they are empty. I stay in the center and outsides. If it is a really tiny chapel, I feel I am more important than anyone other than mom and dad so I do get in front of people if I have to to get a shot. that is why they hired me... not so I can take pictures of the back of grandma's head!!! otherwise I go mostly unnoticed.

My guns of choice are my fast tele primes for low/lowish light, the 70-200 f4L for the outdoor stuff, and the 24-70 for all the processional and room shots. When shooting ambient I prefer to shoot in shutter priority mode because raw can't fix motion blur. 1/80th is about the slowest I shoot unless I'm using direct flash. If I can eek out 1/125th and still get the dof I need, then I try to be there. I have a pretty steady hand so ymmv. Rule of thumb is a min shutter speed of 1/(your focal lenth x your crop factor). I've been shooting guns and involved in archery since I was very young so that probably helps me there. When I am moving from inside a dark church to outdoors in bright sunlight I will go to P mode when I get outside so I can continue to focus on my comps and subject matter instead of worrying about camera settings and then go back into manual or shutter when I go back into the dark church. I don't like to have a 2nd body around my neck but I will sometimes stash one all set up for the outside stuff near the door so I can make a quick switch when I go from inside to outside.

I think that is it! A little more than "where do you stand" but it may be some helpful info to the newbies. I would think most of the where do you stand stuff is pretty obvious but maybe not. I will be anxious to see other replies.


Matt

WillCAD

Great topic.

I've only shot weddings as a 2nd, but I can answer some of the questions based on conversations I've had with the primary, my friend Frank.

1) Me, as 2nd shooter:

• Where do you stand?
Depends on the minister. Some allow photogs on the altar, some do not. Typically, I stand to the side of the altar, shooting the B/G from an angle and the minister mostly from behind. It's very difficult to get good shots when the B/G face each other, but when they face the minister I can get a few, and if the ceremony includes a unity candle lighting, I can usually get some pretty good shots of it, unless the minister blunders in the way.

• How much are you moving around?
Totally depends on the minister. I've shot from a fixed position during the whole process, and I've moved around during the procession and recession but stayed static during the ceremony. It's all in what the minister allows.

• Where are your planned locations during the different parts of the ceremony (Like the ring exchange, communion, presentation)?
Again, depends on the minister, but typically as a 2nd I am positioned opposite from the primary, so that my shots are from a different angle.

• How do you handle and plan ethnic weddings?
Never shot one

• Do you ever stand in the center aisle?
Again, depends on the minister. Some do not allow center isle photography, some allow it during the procession and recession only, some (rarely) allow it throughout the entire process. As 2nd (when allowed by the minister), I'm typically positioned for the procession in the center just in front of the altar, while the primary is in the center about 1/3 down the isle. For the recession, the primary goes to the back of the church and stands in the isle, while I go about 1/3 down the isle.

2) My friend Frank, as primary:

• Where do you stand?
Depends on where the minister allows. Altar and in front of the front pews are the preferred locations, but Frank has shot weddings where he was rigidly forced to be nowhere but the LAST row of seats, or even in the balcony.

• How much are you moving around?
When allowed by the minister, Frank prefers to move around a lot during the ceremony, getting shots from both sides, in front, and behind the minister.

• Where are your planned locations during the different parts of the ceremony (Like the ring exchange, communion, presentation)?
Frank likes to be in close for the ring exchange, usually centered in the isle. During the presentation, I think he's usually moving to the back of the church to be in position for the recession. For communion, I don't know.

• How do you handle and plan ethnic weddings?
Dunno. I know Frank has done Greek Orthodox, Muslim, and Jewish weddings, but I've only shot Catholic and Protestant weddings with him.

• Do you ever stand in the center aisle?
Whenever he is allowed by the minister, Frank loves to be in the center isle, particularly during the procession and recession. But when shooting in the center, he likes to make himself as unobtrusive as possible to avoid blocking the view of the guests.

Kinkajou

Having only been a part of two weddings, I don't have a ton to contribute, but here goes:

- As the primary, I'm in usually the center with a 70-200/1.4 on one body and an 18-55 on the other, and have the 70-200 on a tripod (I don't have a very steady hand to begin with, and I shed a tear or two at most weddings - regardless of how well I know the people getting married - so I need the added stability with that hefty lens). I don't move around too much, especially if the venue is small (especially if it is full), like the most coveted venue here in G'ville is. If I do, it's just around the back and down the sides.

- As the second, I find the primary likes to get up in the front corner opposite the bride to get her expressions and keep me in the back/center for the overall view. Again, depending on the ceremony and how full the venue is, I may be able to move to the sides and get a couple reaction shots and different angles as well.

- When in the back/center, I NEVER move forward into the area where the attendees are seated. A photographer did that while I was sitting in the back row next to the center aisle at a wedding once. As a short person, I had a hard time seeing over everyone in front of me to begin with, and then at the most exciting parts of the ceremony (kiss, rings, etc), the photographer would walk 4 or 5 rows in toward the 'altar' and totally block my view. There's a reason the telephoto lenses exist, man. I was so disappointed and vowed to never do that as a photographer. Yeah, they're paying big money for their wedding pictures, but you don't know how much someone might've paid to get to that wedding and see someone they care about have this ceremony. Ticking off the guests just seems like a bad plan

- And yeah, ninja is key

quark

If I have no 2nd I typically setup my tripod in the balcony or in a corner as high as possible with my second camera, wide angle lens. I then use my remote control to trigger the second camera for the group shots to capture the crowd when the bride walks down the aisle.

I usually position myself near the back of the aisle for the great entry/exit shots. If you know where they will be standing with more precision then you can use the same technique with a telephoto to get the off angle shots. I find a camera with no human is less distracting to the crowd during the ceremony.

Example (only me shooting):

Agnieszka

quark wrote:

If I have no 2nd I typically setup my tripod in the balcony or in a corner as high as possible with my second camera, wide angle lens.

Not bad ...

Let's see ... The way I do it (as the main photographer)
• Bride coming down the aisle:
I'm at the very front on the bride's family's side / kneeling, so I don't bother anybody's view. That gives me a good view at the groom when she walks down the aisle too. Try to get 3-4 shots of everybody coming down.
> Shots of the bride coming down, shots of the groom, shots of the parents reacting, shots of the father giving her away, shots of the groom looking at the bride.

• Shortly after she walked down the aisle:
Best time to move around, as nothing "big" will happen, no matter how short the ceremony is.
> Shots from both sides (close-up of the groom & bride), shots from the aisle (center back) of the whole church interior + couple standing in the middle, shots from the 1st floor where the organ is playing

• Couple exchanging the rings:
I'm back at the front for that one (picking one side, depending on who is saying their vows). I'm usually kneeling.
> close-ups of the bride / groom, closeups of the rings / hands

• First kiss:
After the couple exchanged rings I usually stay on the aisle and try to get a center shot of them kissing

• Couple walking don the isle:
I'm on the aisle, usually about half way down to the exit. The couple is walking towards me, and I'm trying to get as many shots as I can. I do not care much if I'm in any shots from the other guests, those shots are important, and I usually get some nice reactions of people high-fiving, or congratulating to the couple.


MY SECOND:
• Bride coming down the aisle:
She's usually closer to the entrance shooting the same shot like I do, just in case something happens (yup, my flash died once right at the moment when the bride came down, and I was not able to use any of my photos, so ... )

• Shortly after she walked down the aisle:
She's usually doing her thing. I've been working with her for 2 years, so I trust her to walk around and do her own close-up of the couple, guests, photos from above / center isle shots from the back. Anything she can get and thinks it's cool. She usually gets more close-ups from the side than I do, as I'm all over the place.

• Couple exchanging the rings:
She's usually on the side ... getting close-ups

• First kiss:
She's either on the side or next to me.

• Couple walking don the aisle:
She's either next to me, or shooting the couple from behind, walking towards me


I agree, moving around like a ninja is a must I've never had any issues with the priests, or other officiants. Photos from the altar or behind the minister are no-gos for me. I don't want to interrupt anything, and don't want people paying attention to me, instead of the couple. IF there is a back room, I *might* sneak in there and shoot close-ups of the couple during the communion, but that happens very rarely.

shming

I encounter these all of the time (this one is pretty typical)
I just signed this agreement today -- I thought it was fitting for this particular thread - and for anyone new to the industry - here is a sneak peak of what you will encounter. Take a look at clause #8 - the reason why I'm pointing this out is: It is sooooo important for you to be as respectable as you can to the CCC wedding coordinator --- it's amazing how liberal they can suddenly become - if you seek them out before they seek you out. Be polite - listen first -- ask for permission - and say thank you!!! Oh - and if they do bend --- a box of chocolates in the near future sent to them will insure you have more freedom the next time you shoot in there facility again (can't hurt right) (Maybe - some people just like control - you gotta respect that as well ) Hope this works - I've never attached a pdf before ---- and more importantly --- I hope that this is a benefit to the forum.

Shima

• Where do you stand?
--- Either on a balcony, back of the center aisle, or in a side aisle. I like to move around a bunch w/out being noticed or getting in anyone's line of sight.

• How much are you moving around?
---A lot, usually in between readings and songs I'll move around. I try to stay centered for things like ring exchange, kiss, etc though.

• Where are your planned locations during the different parts of the ceremony (Like the ring exchange, communion, presentation)?
---Ring exchange and presentation I'm in the center, communion I usually go off to one side

• How do you handle and plan ethnic weddings?
---If I'm not familiar with that type of wedding I always consult the bride / groom / and officiant of any details I should be aware of that differ from "traditional" "standard" weddings.

• Do you ever stand in the center aisle?
---yeah but I stay out of people's views and only go in the center if told I'm allowed to since not all churches will let you. If I do creep up near the front (with permission granted before hand of course) I am always crawling and staying below heads.

zoomer

Angie it was so funny reading your description, that is almost exactly how I do it.

In the middle of the ceremony especially if it is a long one I will go to the back and take the 200 from my helper and get a few shots from long range and try to get in close from the side to get some close up shots of the bride looking up at the groom, from behind the groom.

Usually I have a helper with me and I use them for a second just to shoot the bride and her Dad walking down the aisle from behind.

That is for an indoor ceremony.

For outside ceremonys I tend to camp right at the front of the aisle and kneel or sit on the ground. This is for weddings where I am fighting the sun and I want to stay close enough to get max. benefit from my flash.
For these I have my helper (usually my daughter) shooting from the back and from the sides with the 200.

WillCAD

Wowsers, Shming. I've been to weddings with photography and videography restrictions that tight, but I've never seen a requirement for a signed document like that.

shming

WillCAD wrote:

Wowsers, Shming. I've been to weddings with photography and videography restrictions that tight, but I've never seen a requirement for a signed document like that.

Yeah - this one is pretty tight - that's why I posted it. --- No worries though - the Bride totally understands - I have a clause in my contract stating that I have to obey the rules of the officiant, etc. So when she was presented with this from the church she wasn't at all caught by surprise. The thing that is worrying me a little is that it's a destination wedding. I won't be flying in until 3 hours before the rehearsal dinner. Barely enough time to scout the area out. On the upside - the bride managed to schedule a two hour post-ceremony shoot at the historic hilton hotel in Oklahoma city - sweet -- I'll post the pics after I'm back and they are fully post-processed. I don't like to post straight out of the cam.
Hopefully - the "house rules" are merely a set of guidelines --- otherwise "I CALL PARLEY!!!!"

chuckdee1

Depends on the Church/Pastor, etc. I've had Pastors be very strict on movement and others not so much. When I have free reign, I'm pretty much everywhere with the center being the key shots.

yupman

I have not read all of the responses but I like a lot of them and they all made sense. Usually I have had very relaxed pastors who said it was okay to move anywhere. I also made sure I knew exactly what was going to happen next that way I was always ahead and not being stuck in the back. Once I had to shoot a baptism and well with all the spectators and other peeps with their point to shoots I got stuck in the back and by the time I made my way to the prime spot the baptism was over. I literally had to shoot over head just taking wild shots. I got some good angles but the moment the baptism group turned I was stuck behind the crowd. Oh sorry back to the weddings. Yes it was primarily a discussion with the bride and groom along with the pastor that also made it clear as to how much movement and placements for my shots. One wedding was on the beach so I had to actually walk in the water to get some shots from behind the officiant, luckily I had slip on shoes to remove, also had a spare change of socks. Pants got wet at the bottom but it dried in the sun and was okay for the reception later.

Blinau100

• Where do you stand?
Luckily for i haven't photographed a wedding where there has been to many limitations, perhaps it because i am always where i am expected to be. I do however get all the shots that are valuable.
I like a center shot from the front as the bride makes her appearances and then walks down the isle.
the rings will be at a angle, either from the brides side or the groom.
a low angle shot from the back of the isle.
and the couple and i plan before hand and check out ceremony locations to prevent being stuck in situation where i cant be where i am suppose to.

• How much are you moving around?
how much i move around depends on the part of the ceremony. i don't use flash or camera during the preach as this is the part where i respect the pastor.

• Where are your planned locations during the different parts of the ceremony (Like the ring exchange, communion, presentation)?

i like to be up close and zoomed in with ring exchange and kisses as this is emotional parts with the importance on subjects and the rest blurred.

• How do you handle and plan ethnic weddings?

I haven't had the opportunity of an ethnic wedding but sure when the time comes ill be able to handle it with the necessary professionalism as any other wedding. As i'm good with new experiences.

• Do you ever stand in the center aisle?

Front and back at suitable times
www.conrayblinauphotography.com to view portfolio

divamum

Wow - glad this got bumped as it is VERY helpful for me for next week!

Question: we have been told we need to be "out of congregation's sightlines" and can only use side aisles (and stay away from the front), back, and balcony during the ceremony. Guess I'll get a chance to figure it out at the rehearsal, but for those who have dealt with similar scenarios, any good ninja tricks for getting the bride coming down the aisle and bride/groom reaction shots? My plan at this point is to put me in the balcony and my co-shooter (who knows what she's doing, unlike me!) on the floor, but all suggestions from others who may have dealt with this scenario gratefully received

heatherfeather

Divamum, just have a chat with your officiate before ceremony. Even the most strict generally let you shoot from low in the front and with flash during the processional. Walk with him through the room and make an agreement about where you will be and what you will do. That being said, I had an officiate this summer that told me that during his last ceremony (not the one I was shooting) he stopped ceremony and kicked out the photographer... so make sure you talk with him to figure out what "out of congregation's sightlines" means to him. (I would guess he means to the outside right or left of the aisle.) I find that if you hunt them down and say your goal is to honor and respect him and the sacred moment, it will make him feel a lot more comfortable with your presence.

divamum

Thanks Heather! I'll do exactly that I will say I think this is at least partly the couple's request as well - they're both professional singers, so have a sense of what they want the "audience" to see; they made it very clear they don't want anybody blocking views or distracting from the ceremony, which is fair enough.

WillCAD

divamum wrote: »

Wow - glad this got bumped as it is VERY helpful for me for next week!

Question: we have been told we need to be "out of congregation's sightlines" and can only use side aisles (and stay away from the front), back, and balcony during the ceremony. Guess I'll get a chance to figure it out at the rehearsal, but for those who have dealt with similar scenarios, any good ninja tricks for getting the bride coming down the aisle and bride/groom reaction shots? My plan at this point is to put me in the balcony and my co-shooter (who knows what she's doing, unlike me!) on the floor, but all suggestions from others who may have dealt with this scenario gratefully received

I agree with Heather, chat with the officiate when you meet for the rehearsal and get a good handle on where you can and can't be during each phase of the ceremony.

That line about "sightlines" sounds to me like they want to prevent photographers and videographers from standing between the audience and the altar, spoiling their view. I had some experience with that once, and it was mighty unpleasant for me; I was shooting the official wedding video for my aunt, when one of my uncles walked in front of my camera and completely blocked the shot to get his personal video. My camera was on a tripod, so I couldn't move, and I couldn't call out in the middle of the ceremony...

During the procession, it might be better for both shooters to be near the front. If you're in the balcony while the bridal party is going up the aisle, all you're going to get is pics of their backs. The most common setup I've been involved in was for one shooter to be aimed down the aisle to get shots of the approach; as each couple separates, he pivots to get shots of the groomsmen as they line up at the altar. Meanwhile, the other shooter is between the groomsmen and the seats, shooting the bridesmaids as they line line up. Typically, both shooters will operate from a kneeling position at least part of the time, which not only changes the perspective of their shots, but reduces their visibility to the audience.

While you're working out your shooting positions with the officiant at the rehearsal, keep in mind that the church will be full of people when you shoot the real thing, and those people will all be standing up during the procession and recession, which can have a serious blockage effect on your shots, except those directly down an aisle. If it's a Catholic ceremony, there will be standing and kneeling at various parts of the ceremony as well.

Also be prepared for Aunt Edna and Uncle Homer stepping out into the aisle to take their own shots -or video- thus blocking yours.

The ceremony is the hardest part. If you can't get on the altar behind the officiant, it's darn near impossible to get shots of the couple's faces. You have to settle for edge-on, or snap quickly during the parts of the ceremony where the couple faces each other. During the formals, the photog I work for often re-stages a few parts of the ceremony such as unity candle lighting and ring exchange, in order to get better angles.

During the recession, it's easy to get good shots of each couple coming down the aisle if you get a shooter to the back of the church before they start.

digitalpins

• Where do you stand?
I will get some photos from the front center, I find some churches or wedding locations may have a door in back which is great to hide for a few. When I shoot front and center I use a zoom lens (70-200). I don't move around too much my normal fixed spot is either in the back center and off to the side, I normally check with minster and/or church on where can I stand. Also depends on the type of wedding, I recently photographed a Indian wedding and my fixed location was in the front slightly to the left. They had a long table facing the attendees and I was out of the way no one behind me.

• How much are you moving around?
Im moving around everywhere after the ceremony, but during the wedding ceremony I find a good spot off to the side I may move around and get a good photo from the back but it all depends on the type of wedding. At an Indian wedding I'm very glad I brought a step stool because I stood behind 3 rows of people and was lucky because behind me was a shed so not blocking anyone. I stayed here the entire time of the their traditional wedding ceremony. lol it is hard to move around trying to be so quiet and moving slow.

• Where are your planned locations during the different parts of the ceremony (Like the ring exchange, communion, presentation)?
All depends on the type of wedding, minister, family and available places I am able to get a good photo. I also normally have an assistant stand at a fixed location off to the side so this way I can move from the front to the back.

• How do you handle and plan ethnic weddings?
I just shot my first Indian wedding, and I just went along with everything the family wanted, they were great at explaining everything. I also did my research before the event. But it went very well and they were happy with me. It was a very small nice traditional wedding in their backyard. The following day they had part two of the wedding at a catering hall, there I was moving around everywhere.

• Do you ever stand in the center aisle?
Yes for a few photos when the bride enters, but a few feet away with a zoom lens, exchange of rings (assistant - off to side), first kiss (assistant - off to side or in back), couple walking down isle. Also my last event at the catering hall the couple made another entrance but the bridal party made an entrance from a upper floor to lower floor, had my assistant down stairs as they lined up and I was upstairs as they were leaving the waiting room, then made my way downstairs where my assistant and I were on separate sides as they entered the main room.

Just adding to this at the catering hall Im moving around the floor taking photos of everyone, my assistant is floating around the crowd also. This is where I move around a lot through the duration of the event that night.

wasanoobonce

I find moving quickly is the easiest way to avoid angry audience members Seriously, though, sometimes for big and weird-shaped churches I've had a second camera manned (one on both sides), just to make sure all the shots are perfect.

divamum

Willcad, I realise I never took the time to thank you for your helpful post. Thank you! In the event, we did go with the balcony/front setup as described - was kind of the only way. Fortunately, the congregational photographers were fairly few, and the sightlines on the church made it weird no matter what. It wasn't perfect, but I'm not sure anything sort of being behind the celebrant would really have enabled the kinds of shots photographers like

And man, oh man was I glad there were two of us - would have been really tricky to get the "money shots" without that!

WillCAD

divamum wrote: »

Willcad, I realise I never took the time to thank you for your helpful post. Thank you! In the event, we did go with the balcony/front setup as described - was kind of the only way. Fortunately, the congregational photographers were fairly few, and the sightlines on the church made it weird no matter what. It wasn't perfect, but I'm not sure anything sort of being behind the celebrant would really have enabled the kinds of shots photographers like

And man, oh man was I glad there were two of us - would have been really tricky to get the "money shots" without that!

I look forward to seeing sone shots,

divamum

WillCAD wrote: »

I look forward to seeing sone shots,

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=241081