xmp files are annoying

Mad Cat

Greetings,
First off let me start by saying I'm not the sharpest tool in the Photoshop shed and basically have had to learn my workflow by brutal trial and error. I hope somebody here can help me:dunno .
When I shoot I always shoot a camera RAW (NEF) file and a jpeg low qual of each image. That way I can always view the jpeg if I'm using software that doesn't get along well with the NEF..... Depending on what I plan to do with said images I either load them into Photoshop Elements 7, or else CS3 Bridge. I'm still groping with workflow - especially organizing the images. Soon I'm going to have Lightroom and if it's as great as I keep hearing I'll load all images to it....
Anyway my problems start when I copy an images(s) from photoshop to a desktop folder. When I open the folder not only do I have my RAW/jpeg files but photoshop also throws in an added value .xmp file for each image. I understand from my online research that these .xmp files are there for purposes of copyright, date/time images was made, etc. Kind of like .exif on more detailed.
Well I really don't need Adobe extracting this info for me and it gives me a headache because when I back everything up to an external drive I worry that all these files will get shuffled and separated from the raw files.... creating a more complicated workflow..... :scratch There are folks that advocate converting their RAW files to DNG right out of the chute but I'm not sure I'm that far along on the learning curve.... Anyone reading this can tell I'm really messed up with this .xmp crap... HELP!!! Thanks w/mc

insanefred

I'd like to know if there's a way to lump all the XMP files into a single folder on a drive. Rather than each folder that you photos are in.

dmmattix

The .xmp files are used by ACR (Adobe Camera Raw) in Photoshop Elements, CS3/4, and LightRoom to store metadata (data about data) relating to the RAW (NEF) file you have opened and worked on using ACR. You are correct about the file containing information about copyright and date/time of exposure, but it contains much more detailed information about the shot such as camera type, lens type, shutter speed, f-stop of the lens, focal length of the lens(especially nice if it is a zoom), etc. But most importantly it contains any modification you do to the image using ACR such as exposure, clarity, brightness, sharpening, noise reduction, and cropping just to name a few. This information is all contained in the .xmp file. This (supposedly) allows you to modify the file using Bridge and then open it in Elements and see the same modifications. Ditto Bridge and Lightroom. Well hopefully you get the picture. Now if you never modify the image using ACR just use it to create the .jpg or .tif and then use the Photoshop editor to modify the image then you lose less but don't underestimate the information contained in the .xmp files.

Mike

Richard

Yeah, XMP files are a bit of a pain, but as Mike correctly points out, all of the settings that you use in your raw conversion are stored there. If you put them into a separate folder, ACR won't be able to find them if you go back to re-edit the original file.

There are really only three ways to deal with this (besides just remembering all the time to move XMPs when moving raw files). The first is to convert your raw files to DNG, which will contain the raw data plus all the meta-data, including your conversion settings. The second is to do all your photo directory maintenance using a product that is aware of XMP files. Adobe LR and Bridge both will keep the XMPs with the raw files automagically when you use them to move pics around. The final choice is change your preference setting in Bridge/Camera Raw to save your adjustment settings in a Bridge database rather than an XMP sidecar. I haven't tried this approach because Bridge is a browser, not a catalog database. I also don't want to get locked into Adobe products. My database is XMP aware, but it cannot extract information from Bridge's proprietary data storage.

I think for now, the best thing you can do is just make sure you are keeping your XMP files in the same folder as the NEF files. Bridge will handle this for you. Once you start using LightRoom, your problem will go away as long as you remember to do all your file moving within LR itself.

arodney

Mad Cat wrote:

There are folks that advocate converting their RAW files to DNG right out of the chute but I'm not sure I'm that far along on the learning curve....

That’s easy to do and provides a lot of advantages, one being, no XMP’s to deal with. See:http://www.ppmag.com/reviews/200709_adobedng.pdf

If you use something like Lightroom, you can convert to DNG on the fly and while importing, save off the proprietary raws to another drive for archive and totally forget about them unless you want to go back to the camera manufacturer’s raw converter that can access the questionably useful proprietary metadata that is useless outside that converter. Or, don’t do this and just stick with DNG.

malch

Mad Cat wrote:

Greetings,
When I shoot I always shoot a camera RAW (NEF) file and a jpeg low qual of each image. That way I can always view the jpeg if I'm using software that doesn't get along well with the NEF.....

Don't bother. Every NEF contains at least one reasonable quality JPEG inside it.

There are many great viewers that will render the embedded JPEG (IrfanView is one great example that does this right out of the box by default).

Also grab this program:

http://drchung.new21.net/previewextractor/

It will rip through a folder of NEF's and save those embedded JPEGs as separate files in the folder of your choice.

I also suggest keeping your NEF's in the original folder and saving all derived images in some other folder/subfolder(s). That was any XMP files will end up in the NEF-only folder (where they belong, in my view). And, of course, you can still make the decision to purge the XMP's if you're sure they are not useful to you.

Mad Cat

Hey Thanks to all you guys for the advice. Sounds like the thing to do is load the images from the card twice? First into Adobe and DNG files, and then again straight onto the external hard drive? It's only February but my Japanese Cherry tree is already blossoming & I just grabbed some shots. I guess now's as good a time as any to try it out..... thanks again!!!! w/mc

arodney

Mad Cat wrote:

Sounds like the thing to do is load the images from the card twice? First into Adobe and DNG files, and then again straight onto the external hard drive?

Lightroom will do this at the same time (convert to DNG for its library and save a copy of the original proprietary raw to a drive you specify). You need to select the backup check box option and define a path to the drive you want to save the raws. Note that any presets, keywords and so forth you define on import only affect the DNG files going into the database. IOW, the “backup” feature is just that. Save off these raws, untouched to this drive.

Sam

Quick question: Is there any need or advantage to save the original proprietary RAW file as well as the converted dng file?

Sam

Richard

Sam wrote:

Quick question: Is there any need or advantage to save the original proprietary RAW file as well as the converted dng file?

Sam

Not as long as you stick to Adobe software. Not all other software products recognize DNG. You can only recover the original raw file from a DNG file if you save it in the larger mode. This embeds the actual raw file within the DNG container, in addition to the DNG converted data, but naturally, eats up more storage.

divamum

My workflow:

I upload images to my computer through Picasa, putting them wherever they need to go (in my case, year/date/subfolder for shoot).

I then open LR, and import my files there "from existing location". Yes, there are still xmp files, but they're small and they just sit there not getting in my way. I then export the jpgs to a subfolder in the same directory, usually called "processed". Keeps everything together, but I can find originals vs processed files quickly.

Not sure if that's any help, but fwiw - it works for m.

arodney

Sam wrote:

Quick question: Is there any need or advantage to save the original proprietary RAW file as well as the converted dng file?

Only if you wanted to return to the manufacturer’s converter to access the proprietary XMP data for rendering, or you found a raw converter that didn’t read DNGs.