Sports Shooting Guidence Needed

Sam

I have been having some problems shooting fast moving subjects. Yesterday I went with my neighbor to soot him and his son autocrossing their car.

I tried a variety of focus methods, AI Servo, single shot, pre-focus on a spot. I used the center focus point, and tried with and without IS.

I tried single shot. burst, etc. I tried a variety of shutter speeds and aperture.

I am not getting the results I would like. Keeper rate is low, etc. The example is one of the better ones.

I am using a 5D II and for these shots used a 70-200 2.8L. IS

I am wondering what method the auto, or sports shooters use in this type of situation.

Here are the examples. 200mm f5.6 ISO 800 1/1600 (Didn't stop the wheel)

Sam

No Crop:

Sam

Medium Crop:

Sam

Heavy crop:

kiz5

In motorsports, you don't actually want to freeze the action.

Slow the shutter speed down, to show speed. Aim for 1/60th-1/100th. That's where you actually get the sense of speed. Freezing the wheels makes it appear as if its just a stationary shot, in which case you might as well just have them set up a shot for you.

mercphoto

You either want a much slower shutter, to show motion and to blur the background with motion (which is different than the blur you get with a wide-open lens), or you want a wide open lens with a telephoto to blur the background. You have neither here.

That shot the car is coming nearly right at you, and for that I'd go wide open with as long a lens as I have. Go for as shallow a depth of field as you can get. As the shot changes to be more profile then start slowing down the shutter and pan with the car. I don't shoot race cars any faster than 1/320, and I only use shutters that high to guarantee some degree of "keepers". I really like to be at 1/200 and below.

Think a bit about the motions involved here. If a subject is coming right at you using a slow shutter is not going to help you any at all. You won't be moving the lens from side to side, so your background won't blur. And the slow shutter will force a small aperture and you'll get a ton of depth of field.

If a subject is moving side to side then a wide aperture will result in a shallow depth of field as well, but the very fast shutter will also freeze the motion of the tires. Not attractive. So you slow the shutter down and pan with the subject. This introduces wheel blur and gives a sense of speed. Of course, the aperture will close down a lot and increase depth of field, but since you are moving that camera side to side you will not get a crisp background, it will be horizontally blurred, so your increased depth of field will not be an issue.

du8die

I don't shoot motor-sports, so I may not be of much help... I've done a bit of cycling.

It's interesting - because the advice above is opposite of what you would be told if you were shooting basketball or football. High shutter speeds are what you want. But, it makes sense.

In this case, I'd probably use AI-Servo (because you have a moving subject). The 5dII isn't going to be great for burst (3 fps, right?). I wouldn't worry about DoF - if you pan with the motion, it will blur the background for you.

Hope that's helpful...

mercphoto

du8die wrote:

It's interesting - because the advice above is opposite of what you would be told if you were shooting basketball or football. High shutter speeds are what you want. But, it makes sense.

That is a correct observation. Stick-and-ball sports, high-speed shutters and stop-action rules. Partly because motion blurred limbs on athletes in motion makes them look creepy.

Sam

Hi Bill,

I was hoping you would stop by. I understand the panning scenario, but am stll wondering about coming straight at me, and / or like the example coming at an angle, forward and left to right.

If I use a slow shutter with the car coming say straight at me I am concerned that the slow shutter will allow motion blur from front to rear (irrespective of the DOF) producing an out of focus image.

My intent is to capture cars entering and / or exiting a turn under load / drift. My desired shooting perspective will be more from the front than the side.

What would be your recommendations for this? Also just for something to compare with, what would you estimate your % of panning keepers is?

With a high shutter speed and using AI Servo I didn't seem to be able to keep the subject in focus and get a crisp image. Do you think it's me or is the AI Servo in the 5D II not up to this?

Thanks again!!!

Sam

masterofone

Here are a couple things I do to up my keeper rate.
Lock focus on your subject and and start tracking well before the point you want to shoot. This will give you time to match your pan to the speed of the subject. Once you lock your focus point on the subject even a slow focusing lens should be able to track it as long as you can keep the focus point on the subject.
Pre-focus. If you want to capture an image in the apex of a turn but due to obstacles or whatever, you can't lock focus in advance of that then prefocus on the track at the point you want to shoot.
When I have to discard a pan shot it is usually because I did not do these things.


1/60

mercphoto

Sam wrote:

Hi Bill,

I was hoping you would stop by. I understand the panning scenario, but am stll wondering about coming straight at me, and / or like the example coming at an angle, forward and left to right.

If I use a slow shutter with the car coming say straight at me I am concerned that the slow shutter will allow motion blur from front to rear (irrespective of the DOF) producing an out of focus image.

My intent is to capture cars entering and / or exiting a turn under load / drift. My desired shooting perspective will be more from the front than the side.

What would be your recommendations for this? Also just for something to compare with, what would you estimate your % of panning keepers is?

With a high shutter speed and using AI Servo I didn't seem to be able to keep the subject in focus and get a crisp image. Do you think it's me or is the AI Servo in the 5D II not up to this?

Thanks again!!!

Sam

You're right that slow shutters and cars moving at you don't mix very well. For that you just need as shallow a depth of field as you can get, as long a focal length as you can get, and choose your backgrounds wisely. As per the 5D II and sports I have heard from others that the focus tracking on that camera might not be up to the task of fast moving objects.

nw scout

I'll throw in my two cents

First off, the tight crop kills the others. When in bad light and with a bad background, crop as tight as possible!!!

Just my opinion, but in todays world of post production, it is way better to make sure the subject is sharp, than to go for tire spin. Blurred tires and backgrounds are an easy fix if you so desire. Blurred subject...... not so easy.

In this application I would not spot focus as the best action spot may change from lap to lap depending on what the driver is trying to do. At a race event I NEVER spot focus. On a job, spot focus is great because I know exactly what is going to happen and where.
The main issue with the servo is not if it will track (it will) but what part of the subject are you locking on to. Make sure you put the focus spot on something well lit and contrasty. This helps huge!!!

I mostly shoot bikes, cars are a bit bigger so you need a bit more depth of field to pull the whole vehicle into focus. Shooting close to full frame with a 200-mm, I would try to be 5.6 anywhere from 320 to 800 depending on the speed of the car and how far off the front I was.

I have been shooting motor sports professionally for around 16 years now, and other than when shooting car to car or car to bike, I very seldom even think about wheel spin. Sharp product, light and
composition are first and foremost.

Just my opinion but I hope it helps.
Dave