JJB asked exacly the right questions. And this pro didn't know the speed of her 70-300 AND was never able to answer the F-Stop question? A Canon Rebel for sure can take an award winning shot, but a rebel, kit lens, and auto, a pro does not make, IMHO. Good questions, JJB.
Is JJB stating If you don"t have pro lens and pro camera your not a pro.huh
A 50mm 1.4 or 85mm 1.8 would help you in low light but are not pro glass.huh
I don't know, I would like to see more work from the photographer and the wedding to make my judgment.
A few years ago I only had a point and shoot Fuji fine pix camera 3.2mp. I took a wonderful photo on mothersday that is on my wall at home at 20x30. It looks great. I did use a tripod for the photo and a flash.
I would not use a point and shoot camera for a wedding but I do think that some photographers could and still get great photos with a point and shoot. After all its not the camera and pro glass that make the photo. It does help image quality.
All photos are bdlsr (before my 1st dslr) fuji 3.2mp point and shoot.
JJB seem like he knows a bit about photography, his biggest downfall was saying that by using the rebel and 18-55 kit lens can't produce "pro" quality photographs. Also he was arguing the fact that the priest said that the photographer couldn't use flash. That is a pretty common practice these days, but...if it was just that he said the guests couldn't use it as to not mess up the pro's photos...that's a different story.
Anyways...pretty hilarious. She obviously didn't know much about photography. Granted some people just don't know the technical side very much, all "pro's" I believe should know how fast their lenses are... That's just basic...
Unfortunately this case is just about TV entertainment value. It makes no difference what equipment was used or if a tripod was used. There are only two questions that are relevant here. 1. What was in the contract? There were no real refrences as to exactly what was promised for the amount of money charged and 2. What was the quality of the photos as a group. One soft picture does not mean the whole wedding was out of focus. If the photog did not provide professional processing of the images that should have been spelled out in the contract. Any pro knows that there is a huge difference in the quality. The bride should have the right to professional processing and handleing of her wedding photos. The damages paid out in these cases are paid by the producers so reality does'nt count. In a real courtroom you would have to prove that you did not receive what you paid for. And the damages can be much higher than 2500.00. The lesson here seems to be if you can not provide what you promise then don't offer your services as a professional. And on the other side, don't go to court without a legitamate case with adequate evidence.
If she really cared at all about her photos, she would have known after going to any bridal fair where there is always more than one photographer exhibiting, that to get good work you have to pay a lot more than $1300.
The bride actually paid the $2500. She sued for $1300 as she didn't feel like the whole experience was a total waste, and wanted to compensate the photographer for the effort that they did make. JJB ruled that she was being generous, and said she was responsible for the whole cost. Act or not, a lot of people take these shows to heart, the questions he asked were very useless towards the case. Hard evidence, like looking at the quality of work that was in the albums that the bride had on her table would have been more helpful. Of course not judging the artistic value, but the quality.
I think it's a good thing that the bride won the judgement, made up scenario or not. For anyone watching, it might make them think harder about their actual ability, their equipment and their experience. False representation of actual skills and experience is Very common. I know of local photographers who have advertised falsely about the length of time they have been in the business, and the amount of work they have actually done. At the end of the day, I just feel bad for the people who have spent their money.
I don't understand why the photographer wouldn't allow for a re-shoot or just give the refund. The way I see it, if the client wasn't happy then the photographer did not meet the expectations of his/her client. Give the refund or re-shoot it.
Let's face it, this is going to happen, it all depends on how you handle it, just be professional, sheesh!
Lesson to learn from these episodes, just don't put yourself in that position.
I love the way Glort broke my reply down piece by piece
But that lady was a 'tard. She should have come to court (or tv-show set) more prepared. I would have brought samples of my previous work (good samples have you) and stated that though I used a Canon XTi, I upsample my images to proper dimensions via programs such as OnOne Genuine Fractals, and basically have good knowledge of what the heck I'm practicing. When JJB said, "Where's the 1-series?"; I would reply in analogy that you don't need to drive a Ferrari to run at a race-track, the experience the driver/photographer who utilizes the tools is much more important than the size of the camera body. Lastly, that lady's attitude needs re-adjusting, don't rush the judge and expect it to go your way. I say, she deserved it, she should have taken care of it off-court and saved some cash. With that $2500 she has to fork up, she could have bought a BIGGER-Canon-body so she can 'look' the part, because let's face it, sometimes (for better or worse), that's all it takes to get a ''.
I stand corrected. The lady picked a GREAT way to save money.
I don't know if anything was saved. You agree to let this guy hear your case and be (potentially) humiliated on national tv? not to mention the potential lost income? Don't know that she saved anything by going that route.
Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
This is OT, sorry... Dawson, I just wanted to say great job on the wedding you shot last weekend! The groom's brother Marc was my college roommate for several years, and I saw some of your pictures on FB. They looked great, and I know the couple was very happy. Nice work!
Final Outcome: Customer gets her money back. Was it deserved? We'll never know.
Final outcome: If this was a real Professional Studio, they did themselves irrepairable damage to their business. Who would actually hire these people after seeing their lack of knowledge, horrible attitude, lack of professionalism and "crappy equipment" sans JJB. Word travels at lightning speed on the internet.
I don't know if anything was saved. You agree to let this guy hear your case and be (potentially) humiliated on national tv? not to mention the potential lost income? Don't know that she saved anything by going that route.
Well, aside from not being the brightest bulb, she might have been thinking 'of course I'll win and then I'll get free publicity!'
Final Outcome: Customer gets her money back. Was it deserved? We'll never know.
Final outcome: If this was a real Professional Studio, they did themselves irrepairable damage to their business. Who would actually hire these people after seeing their lack of knowledge, horrible attitude, lack of professionalism and "crappy equipment" sans JJB. Word travels at lightning speed on the internet.
Seems she really is a photog....a poster on another forum stated that the photog (and I use that term loosely) brought her the files to see if her studio could "fix" them......... and they were all shot in med jpg and at ~1600 iso.......OTHER FOUM POST ....coiuld not find the origianal but a partial quote will do.............
It looks like they took down her samples. The site was probably getting slammed. Those links were posted all over photo sites and forums. The links just go to a generic page now. I have seen a lot of good work from Rebels and other entry level cameras. None were hers.
It looks like they took down her samples. The site was probably getting slammed. Those links were posted all over photo sites and forums. The links just go to a generic page now. I have seen a lot of good work from Rebels and other entry level cameras. None were hers.
Alas, too bad. Since I've seen better photos from a G9/10/11 than what she had posted there....
I've printed at Walmart and Sams club. They use Fuji Frontier printers and actually produce a great print if you are in a rush.
I avoid the other stores who use crappy printers.
My next project is to choose one of my photos and order the same 8x10 from bay, snap fish, walmart, target, etc. Then perhaps I can actually show my clients a difference.
Canon Gear: 5D MkII, 30D, 85 1.2 L, 70-200 2.8 IS L, 17-40mm f4 L, 50 1.4, 580EX, 2x 580EXII, Canon 1.4x TC, 300 f4 IS L, 100mm 2.8 Macro, 100-400 IS L Other Gear: Olympus E-PL1, Pan 20 1.7, Fuji 3D Camera, Lensbaby 2.0, Tamron 28-75 2.8, Alien Bees lighting, CyberSyncs, Domke, HONL, FlipIt.
~ Gear Pictures
My favorite JJB line "A brownie box camera could have done this same job outside with this light" I love my Brownie, and yes, it could have, but that picture would have been WAY better done with a Brownie
I wouldn't have dealt with that photographer anyway, one of those Greater Than Thou types who think they know what they're doing when they aren't. The pictures aren't the worst but they aren't the best by a long shot, either.
Comments
www.tednghiem.com
edit: i should also say that if you're getting sued, and Judge Joe is the judge.. you're going to lose!
Nikon 50mm 1.8 | Tamron 28-75 2.8 | Tamron 70-200 2.8 | Tokina 11-16 2.8
2 SB-900 and 2 SB-600's
website | blog | facebook
"How fast is your lens."
"I don't know."
Wow.
"Where's the 1D, 5D, 7D, 10D..." 10D? that's olllllld! haha!
www.tednghiem.com
A 50mm 1.4 or 85mm 1.8 would help you in low light but are not pro glass.
I don't know, I would like to see more work from the photographer and the wedding to make my judgment.
A few years ago I only had a point and shoot Fuji fine pix camera 3.2mp. I took a wonderful photo on mothersday that is on my wall at home at 20x30. It looks great. I did use a tripod for the photo and a flash.
I would not use a point and shoot camera for a wedding but I do think that some photographers could and still get great photos with a point and shoot. After all its not the camera and pro glass that make the photo. It does help image quality.
All photos are bdlsr (before my 1st dslr) fuji 3.2mp point and shoot.
http://danspage.smugmug.com/
Scratch Nikon I switched to
Canon 5d mark II
JJB seem like he knows a bit about photography, his biggest downfall was saying that by using the rebel and 18-55 kit lens can't produce "pro" quality photographs. Also he was arguing the fact that the priest said that the photographer couldn't use flash. That is a pretty common practice these days, but...if it was just that he said the guests couldn't use it as to not mess up the pro's photos...that's a different story.
Anyways...pretty hilarious. She obviously didn't know much about photography. Granted some people just don't know the technical side very much, all "pro's" I believe should know how fast their lenses are... That's just basic...
OneTwoFiftieth | Portland, Oregon | Modern Portraiture
My Equipment:
Bodies: Canon 50D, Canon EOS 1
Lenses: Canon 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105mm f/4L IS, Canon 50mm f/1.4, Canon 100mm f/2.8 Macro, Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8
Lighting: Canon 580EXII, Canon 420 EX, 12" Reflector, Pocket Wizard Plus II (3), AB800 (3), Large Softbox
Stability: Manfrotto 190CXPRO3 Tripod, Manfrotto 488RC4 Ball Head, Manfrotto 679B Monopod
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21695902@N06/
http://500px.com/Shockey
alloutdoor.smugmug.com
http://aoboudoirboise.smugmug.com/
www.CottageInk.smugmug.com
NIKON D700
The bride actually paid the $2500. She sued for $1300 as she didn't feel like the whole experience was a total waste, and wanted to compensate the photographer for the effort that they did make. JJB ruled that she was being generous, and said she was responsible for the whole cost. Act or not, a lot of people take these shows to heart, the questions he asked were very useless towards the case. Hard evidence, like looking at the quality of work that was in the albums that the bride had on her table would have been more helpful. Of course not judging the artistic value, but the quality.
I think it's a good thing that the bride won the judgement, made up scenario or not. For anyone watching, it might make them think harder about their actual ability, their equipment and their experience. False representation of actual skills and experience is Very common. I know of local photographers who have advertised falsely about the length of time they have been in the business, and the amount of work they have actually done. At the end of the day, I just feel bad for the people who have spent their money.
Let's face it, this is going to happen, it all depends on how you handle it, just be professional, sheesh!
Lesson to learn from these episodes, just don't put yourself in that position.
http://www.photographypros.com/midland_mi/index.php
http://www.photographypros.com/portrait/midland_mi/index.php
Judge for yourself.
But that lady was a 'tard. She should have come to court (or tv-show set) more prepared. I would have brought samples of my previous work (good samples have you) and stated that though I used a Canon XTi, I upsample my images to proper dimensions via programs such as OnOne Genuine Fractals, and basically have good knowledge of what the heck I'm practicing. When JJB said, "Where's the 1-series?"; I would reply in analogy that you don't need to drive a Ferrari to run at a race-track, the experience the driver/photographer who utilizes the tools is much more important than the size of the camera body. Lastly, that lady's attitude needs re-adjusting, don't rush the judge and expect it to go your way. I say, she deserved it, she should have taken care of it off-court and saved some cash. With that $2500 she has to fork up, she could have bought a BIGGER-Canon-body so she can 'look' the part, because let's face it, sometimes (for better or worse), that's all it takes to get a '
I stand corrected. The lady picked a GREAT way to save money.
Website
My Smugmug
My Canon Gear:
5DMII | 24-105mm f/4L | 45mm TS/E | 135mm f/2.0L | 70-200mm f/2.8L IS | 50mm f/1.4 | 580EX II & 430EX
This is OT, sorry... Dawson, I just wanted to say great job on the wedding you shot last weekend! The groom's brother Marc was my college roommate for several years, and I saw some of your pictures on FB. They looked great, and I know the couple was very happy. Nice work!
My site 365 Project
Final outcome: If this was a real Professional Studio, they did themselves irrepairable damage to their business. Who would actually hire these people after seeing their lack of knowledge, horrible attitude, lack of professionalism and "crappy equipment" sans JJB. Word travels at lightning speed on the internet.
Well, aside from not being the brightest bulb, she might have been thinking 'of course I'll win and then I'll get free publicity!'
Seems she really is a photog....a poster on another forum stated that the photog (and I use that term loosely) brought her the files to see if her studio could "fix" them......... and they were all shot in med jpg and at ~1600 iso.......OTHER FOUM POST ....coiuld not find the origianal but a partial quote will do.............
Alas, too bad. Since I've seen better photos from a G9/10/11 than what she had posted there....
I avoid the other stores who use crappy printers.
My next project is to choose one of my photos and order the same 8x10 from bay, snap fish, walmart, target, etc. Then perhaps I can actually show my clients a difference.
Other Gear: Olympus E-PL1, Pan 20 1.7, Fuji 3D Camera, Lensbaby 2.0, Tamron 28-75 2.8, Alien Bees lighting, CyberSyncs, Domke, HONL, FlipIt.
~ Gear Pictures
the judge knows a bit about photography,
I wouldn't have dealt with that photographer anyway, one of those Greater Than Thou types who think they know what they're doing when they aren't. The pictures aren't the worst but they aren't the best by a long shot, either.
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