boring composition question

babygodzilla

Hi,

Having a small dilemma with myself. Having an SLR makes me the guy that everyone (family and friends) always asks to bring the camera everywhere they go. Restaurants, malls, etc you name it, mostly restaurants during lunches and dinners.

Here's my dilemma:

1. On one hand I don't really like taking pictures during these ordinary events because the pictures come out boring. It's another restaurant, cluttered and dirty table, crowded, not much room to maneuver without bothering other guests. I can't always be clearing up tables, or have people pose here and there to get the best lighting or whatever because I don't want to bother other guests. So the pictures come out very ordinary. Sure, technically it's a better picture quality, but composition-wise I might as well have taken it with my phone, cause the SLR sure didn't help the situation.

2. On the other hand I'm a believer that every picture can be made interesting. I've seen many candid pictures of ordinary events that just look great taken by professional photographers.

So the question is, what could I have done to create extraordinary pictures out of ordinary situations? Or am I just expecting too much from a boring setting?

Thanks for your advice. Wasn't sure where to put this question I hope it's in the right forum.

bauerman

A couple of tips I would use in your situation:

• Keep subjects out of dead center of the frame...
• Use a large aperture to throw backgrounds out of focus...
• Use high ISO's rather than built in flash...
• Get a new perspective - don't shoot everything from a normal sitting or standing level - get down (or up)
• Shoot some in black and white - or convert afterward...
• Shoot from the hip - take some shots with the camera away from your face so people don't pose...
• Shoot small details - don't just take large group shots - shoot the glass, the napkin, the check, the candle...

I hope some of that helps - post some examples in this thread after your next outing and let us see what you get.

babygodzilla

bauerman wrote:

A couple of tips I would use in your situation:

• Keep subjects out of dead center of the frame...
• Use a large aperture to throw backgrounds out of focus...
• Use high ISO's rather than built in flash...
• Get a new perspective - don't shoot everything from a normal sitting or standing level - get down (or up)
• Shoot some in black and white - or convert afterward...
• Shoot from the hip - take some shots with the camera away from your face so people don't pose...
• Shoot small details - don't just take large group shots - shoot the glass, the napkin, the check, the candle...

I hope some of that helps - post some examples in this thread after your next outing and let us see what you get.

Thanks for your reply. I actually did some of the things you suggested, so that makes me feel better a couple of examples:

Turned this one black and white, large f1.8 aperture, and off-centered focus like you said. increased exposure and black in LR.



Typical group shot, although I specifically chose this wall as the background because it looks different and light reflects off the gold color nicely. in hindsight perhaps i should have tried to take this pic vertically as it is a tall wall with a high ceiling.



these are just a couple of examples. i've filtered the set and have only uploaded the ones i actually like. there are other ones like the typical table group shot with dirty plates etc that i did not upload because im not proud of them. i also tried to take a couple of still-lifes of the dessert, but i suck so much at taking food shots. i will try to post an example of that soon.

bauerman

I don't think that there is anything wrong with either of those two examples, I particularly like the first one.....nice blurred background and a humorous pose.

Now I want to see those dessert shots!

babygodzilla

bauerman wrote:

I don't think that there is anything wrong with either of those two examples, I particularly like the first one.....nice blurred background and a humorous pose.

Now I want to see those dessert shots!

yeah i suppose there's nothing particularly wrong with them. just wondering if they could be better.

OK the ones below i don't really like. the following 2 still-lifes are EPIC fail to me:






not sure how i feel about the next one. i think the subjects look OK, but the background not so much. was trying to get those candles into the shot. not sure if its working. what do you think? maybe i should have moved back further to get more of the subjects.



after further consideration perhaps i shoulda used a filter to counter the orange background. damn yellow lights! what filter should I have used? green?

kdog

The dessert shot just isn't that interesting. Maybe if you'd gotten down to it's level, and shot horizontally with it filling the frame, that might have been an interesting comp. Or not..

The second shot is nice. If you wanted the chandelier sharper, you could have used a smaller aperture. Although I think it's fine the way it is because it draws attention to the girls. To get rid of the yellow, you'd want to use a CTO (color temperture orange) gel on the flash (not on the lens). Then set your camera's white balance to tungsten.

babygodzilla

kdog wrote:

The dessert shot just isn't that interesting. Maybe if you'd gotten down to it's level, and shot horizontally with it filling the frame, that might have been an interesting comp. Or not..

The second shot is nice. If you wanted the chandelier sharper, you could have used a smaller aperture. Although I think it's fine the way it is because it draws attention to the girls. To get rid of the yellow, you'd want to use a CTO (color temperture orange) gel on the flash (not on the lens). Then set your camera's white balance to tungsten.

i never really understood this color-balancing techniques, could you explain a bit? how does using CTO and tungsten WB help? i'm not even sure what color "tungsten" is..

thanks

JohnBiggs

CTO ('Convert to Orange') is a gel (plastic sheet) placed in front of your flash to turn it orange. Then you WB your camera to tungsten so the camera compensates for all the orange. You can use a 1/4 CTO to lessen the color difference but still keep some there. Make sure you shoot raw or do a custom white balance for this.

I believe some orange in the background helps separate the subjects even more, you have depth, color, and exposure you can use to help separate. Depth is a function of the fstop, focal length, distance, and sensor size. color separation is done by having two or more colors of lighting, one for your subject and another for your background. You can get creative here. Exposure is usually done just by under exposing the ambient by about a stop and using your flash or other light to bring the subject up to proper exposure.

The image with the gold grid background would be even better if it was out of focus. IMO it's too busy and distracting. Pulling your subjects farther away from it and maximizing features on your lens could make that very soft and apealing while still keeping some interest.

If the background is interesting and you want it in the shot, is it still a background or a subject? Do you then have too many subjects?

BTW: I'm sure not good at this either. I love your thread because I am bored with the exact same situation. I take my camera somewhere 'normal' and can't think of anything to photograph. I sure don't have the subjects that you have either. So I'm here looking for more ideas from others.

zoomer

I can so relate.
I am never happy taking snapshots so I just never do it.

People posing for snapshots don't want to stand there while you try to be creative they just want you to take the picture already......

The shots you posted look fine for snaps.
Except as you mentioned the shots of the glasses.

babygodzilla

JohnBiggs wrote:

CTO ('Convert to Orange') is a gel (plastic sheet) placed in front of your flash to turn it orange. Then you WB your camera to tungsten so the camera compensates for all the orange. You can use a 1/4 CTO to lessen the color difference but still keep some there. Make sure you shoot raw or do a custom white balance for this.

so let's say I'm not using any gels. what happens when I use Tungsten WB and take a pic in a room full of yellow lights? the exposure becomes more white? more "normal" color?

The image with the gold grid background would be even better if it was out of focus. IMO it's too busy and distracting. Pulling your subjects farther away from it and maximizing features on your lens could make that very soft and apealing while still keeping some interest.

ok ill think about that. there was not much room to navigate though. there's a big round table a foot away from the girls. perhaps i could have taken the girls further away and taken the picture at chest-height using the wall as a background?

If the background is interesting and you want it in the shot, is it still a background or a subject? Do you then have too many subjects?

that's a very good question.

BTW: I'm sure not good at this either. I love your thread because I am bored with the exact same situation. I take my camera somewhere 'normal' and can't think of anything to photograph. I sure don't have the subjects that you have either. So I'm here looking for more ideas from others.

glad i'm not the only one!

People posing for snapshots don't want to stand there while you try to be creative they just want you to take the picture already......

hahahaha tell me about it!!!

JohnBiggs

babygodzilla wrote:

so let's say I'm not using any gels. what happens when I use Tungsten WB and take a pic in a room full of yellow lights? the exposure becomes more white? more "normal" color?

If you are not using any gels and you do the same shot with WB set to tungsten the room will appear normal but your subjects will be blue from the flash. If you have no gels, see if you can do the shot with no flash... drop the aperture, crank the iso.

babygodzilla wrote:

ok ill think about that. there was not much room to navigate though. there's a big round table a foot away from the girls. perhaps i could have taken the girls further away and taken the picture at chest-height using the wall as a background?

Yes, but maybe save that background just for a headshot of one girl to fit them in the frame better. With the busy background and everything in focus, it seems like another one of those boring shots we're trying to avoid?? don't you think? When I look at a shot I ask myself, what separates this shot from something someone else would get by using a P&S?

babygodzilla

JohnBiggs wrote:

If you are not using any gels and you do the same shot with WB set to tungsten the room will appear normal but your subjects will be blue from the flash. If you have no gels, see if you can do the shot with no flash... drop the aperture, crank the iso.





Yes, but maybe save that background just for a headshot of one girl to fit them in the frame better. With the busy background and everything in focus, it seems like another one of those boring shots we're trying to avoid?? don't you think? When I look at a shot I ask myself, what separates this shot from something someone else would get by using a P&S?

i do have gel, i just dont usually carry em around.

that is an excellent point, but like the other guy said before, these people just want you to take the shot already and not give you time for creativity and preparation
damn them!

JohnBiggs

babygodzilla wrote:

i do have gel, i just dont usually carry em around.

that is an excellent point, but like the other guy said before, these people just want you to take the shot already and not give you time for creativity and preparation
damn them!

Yeah. I have to show how I do my cto gel. I always have it since I keep it attached to the flash, even when not in use.

babygodzilla

wait what? you keep it attached to the flash even when ur not using it? how do you mean?

JohnBiggs

babygodzilla wrote:

wait what? you keep it attached to the flash even when ur not using it? how do you mean?

I need to go home and take a pic of it. It's easier shown then described and convenience is huge!

JohnBiggs

Ok. I took pics of all kinds of stuff. Most of it will be for later blog posts where I will explain things.

Anyways: In this blog post I show pictures of my Gel and how I store it.

http://techorator.blogspot.com/2010/03/how-to-control-orange.html

babygodzilla

interesting setup. thanks for the explanation! maybe ill try to bring my gels from now on... they did come in this little square case thingy