Used or New?

Scootersbabygirl

Hi - I'm in the process of starting up my small photography business. I'm not doing it for my main employment (although that's a dream), but I am starting to get more clients. I currently have five weddings booked this summer and hope to book plenty of senior portraits/families/ect. These bookings have made me realize that I need to get another body.

I'm currently shooting with an XSi - I know it's not the top of the line, but so far it's done amazingly well. Hopefully one day I can get something as amazing as a 7D, but I don't have the funds for that yet.

So now I'm looking at the 40 and 50d's and trying to figure out which one I should get. The big question I have is whether I should purchase one new or used. I see plenty of people selling their equipment here on Dgrin, and I'm a bit nervous to purchase something so necessary used.

Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated!

Justiceiro

You definitely need to step up from the rebel, for several reasons. The first is that the 40-50D series is a better camera. It's controls systems are easier to use quickly and far more ergonomic. Speed is of the essence in wedding photography.

Part of it is image as well, and I don't mean image quality, I mean your image as a photographer. Remember that a wedding photography business is principally a business- and that muggles regard people with a better looking camera as a more professional photographer. This, of course, isn't true, but people will hire you or not based on their perception of you. Part of that perception is the image you present.

As far as buying a used D series, I would feel pretty conifdent buying from an established dgrinner here. And here's my personal experience with used D series equipment.

A while back, during the shootout in Glacier, a fellow dgrinner was kindly enough to lend me the 30D he was planning to sell as a backup body. I used it for several days, until it had the misfortune of falling out of the backseat of a certain gentleman from Alabama's truck onto asphalt. Said gentleman being a Southern Gentleman, he had a very very large and nice truck. It was a very high fall.

I was, of course, mortified. I had been saving up to buy a new body to replace my 20D, but I was convinced that I had trashed this camera and, of course, I had to buy it. I couldn't just hand it off to the guy and not tell him. So I figured I was stuck with a loopy 30D for the next few years.

However, despite it being used, and tumbling 4 feet onto concrete, it has continued to work without a hitch since that day, three years ago.

Come to think of it, the 20D I bought in 2004 (I think), which has well over 120,000 shutter clicks on it, still works perfectly. It's too bad really, because I want a new body, but I can't really justify it.

The D series is built like a tank. I beat the crap put of my gear- I've gone through 4 laptops on the last 5 years. I've backpacked my 20 and 30Ds to Central Asia, Southeast Asia, across Europe (dropped the 30D in Budapest again, still works fine), and North Africa. I've lived rough with those guys. And I've never, ever, had a performance issue.

I'm unfamilair with Nikon, but I would feel perfectly fine buying a used 40D or 50D.

jbakerphoto

So what lenses and accessories(flash) do you have right now?

jeffreaux2

I started off with an XTi.....similar to your camera. I have now added a 50D to go along with it but still use the XTi now and then.

My advice is to invest in quality lenses and accessories such as speedlights and or the means to use speedlights off camera BEFORE you invest in another body....with one exception. You absolutely HAVE to have a back up body for weddings. I was lucky when I began and had several friends who owned XTi bodies that I could borrow as a backup. Having a backup with controls that are identical to what you are used to is very usefull.....and a second hand XSI is probably fairly cheap.

If the camera focuses properly, and the shutter opens and closes when THAT button is pressed, then it is doing all that you require of a camera. I doubt you will ask more from a more expensive model.

Noise at Higher ISO's CAN be better on the XXD series....but even THAT is debatable.


NOW....if you were talking about the difference beween any of the cameras mentioned and a full framer like the 5DII my two cents woulda looked a whole lot different.:D

Scootersbabygirl

Thank you all for the great advice. I do need more lenses - I currently have 50mm 1.8, 75-300mm 4-5.6, and the 18-55mm that came with the camera. I have earmarked a few lenses that I want to purchase before the end of the summer, but right now I know that I definitely need a backup body before wedding season starts. Unfortunately I don't have friends who have DSLR's - I live in a very rural area, so I have to get my own.

I've been debating getting another XSi, Jeffreaux, but my husband seems to think that it's smarter to buy a 40d or 50d and to use the XSi as a backup, and then to eventually move on to the full frame cameras in a few years. And the XSi's that I've seen are still around 450 to 500, so is it really worth it to spend that on another XSi, or is getting a d camera a better investment?

Art Scott

Rent or buy used

Scootersbabygirl wrote:

Thank you all for the great advice. I do need more lenses - I currently have 50mm 1.8, 75-300mm 4-5.6, and the 18-55mm that came with the camera. I have earmarked a few lenses that I want to purchase before the end of the summer, but right now I know that I definitely need a backup body before wedding season starts. Unfortunately I don't have friends who have DSLR's - I live in a very rural area, so I have to get my own.

I've been debating getting another XSi, Jeffreaux, but my husband seems to think that it's smarter to buy a 40d or 50d and to use the XSi as a backup, and then to eventually move on to the full frame cameras in a few years. And the XSi's that I've seen are still around 450 to 500, so is it really worth it to spend that on another XSi, or is getting a d camera a better investment?

My take.....You have 5 weddings already.....are they close enuff to rent a body for a month and not get hurt $ wise.....or buy used with low shutter actuations........I have 2 KM 7D's bought new......I have 2 Nikon D300's bought used low shutter actuations (both were under 5K when I bought them).......there are bargins to be had....some people by a cam and then get intimidated by it and sell low price to get rid and go back to P/S.......someone dies and the fasmily liquidates but deceased was just a snapper that bouhgt more cam than needed and family doesn't know real valuse and prices it low.......these types of sceanarios are all over ebay from time to time.......I will buy only from individuals on ebay....no resell auctions (they have no idea what they are selling)...individuals usually have the info needed for you to make an educatued buy......if they do not know how to find the shutter actuations give them a link to opanda free software........also my reason for buying especially bodies off ebay.....you can get square trade warranties ......about 10% maybe a bit higher of the final auction cost......that is at least a year of warranty for a used body......not slammin the FORUM SELLERS but no aftermarket wannty company will sell you a warranty for a forum bought piece of equipment........



As for lenses for weddings.....you need faster glass.......to start with I would suggest something like the Sigma 70-200 f2.8 and the 17-70f2.8-4 this would be a killer combo, both have Optical Stagilization and close focus abilities (labeled as macro but not a true 1:1 macro)......I have never had a bad Sigma Lens and if my bodies had not came wit the lenses they did I would be be bvack to all Sigma for my D300's..............................

Good Luck

jeffreaux2

Scootersbabygirl wrote:

Thank you all for the great advice. I do need more lenses - I currently have 50mm 1.8, 75-300mm 4-5.6, and the 18-55mm that came with the camera. I have earmarked a few lenses that I want to purchase before the end of the summer, but right now I know that I definitely need a backup body before wedding season starts. Unfortunately I don't have friends who have DSLR's - I live in a very rural area, so I have to get my own.

I've been debating getting another XSi, Jeffreaux, but my husband seems to think that it's smarter to buy a 40d or 50d and to use the XSi as a backup, and then to eventually move on to the full frame cameras in a few years. And the XSi's that I've seen are still around 450 to 500, so is it really worth it to spend that on another XSi, or is getting a d camera a better investment?

I didnt find the 50mm F1.8 to be a consistant enough focuser for wedding work and sold it. I wouldnt even attempt a wedding with the other two you listed.

I recommend the Canon 17-55mm F2.8IS. I have shot weddings with ONLY this lense. For a tad longer reach the Canon 85mm F1.8 is a great choice. If you can swing the cost of a 70-200 F2.8IS it is a super lense with long reach to be mounted on a 2nd body.

The body choice is yours to make....but I find it a nag to have two DIFFERENT bodies hanging from one neck....and having to use different interfaces.....dials on the 50D and menus on the XTi. Identical would be great.

Scootersbabygirl

I really do appreciate you guys getting back to me, but I'm a bit frustrated right now. I know I need new lenses, but buying new lenses AND a new body is not in my budget right now. I'm not charging a huge amount for my work because I am not established yet, and my clients understand this. I don't have a studio and am truly working from the ground up. I can't afford to spend over $500 for a lens right now, no matter how much I genuinely want to!

jeffreaux2

Scootersbabygirl wrote:

I really do appreciate you guys getting back to me, but I'm a bit frustrated right now. I know I need new lenses, but buying new lenses AND a new body is not in my budget right now. I'm not charging a huge amount for my work because I am not established yet, and my clients understand this. I don't have a studio and am truly working from the ground up. I can't afford to spend over $500 for a lens right now, no matter how much I genuinely want to!

Then you should consider the Tamron 28-75mm F2.8 as a purchase, and renting a second body. You will likely need a speedlight for the events as well.

Scootersbabygirl

Hi - I have a speedlight, thanks. Sorry if I got frustrated earlier. I've talked with my husband and we've agreed to go ahead and get another XSi and to get another faster lens. Now we're trying to choose between the Tamron 28-75 or the Tamron 17-50 - what would your recommendation be?

jeffreaux2

Scootersbabygirl wrote:

Hi - I have a speedlight, thanks. Sorry if I got frustrated earlier. I've talked with my husband and we've agreed to go ahead and get another XSi and to get another faster lens. Now we're trying to choose between the Tamron 28-75 or the Tamron 17-50 - what would your recommendation be?

Both are great lenses.

The 28-75 (I used to own one) will give you a little extra reach, but may not be wide enough for many situations....which is why I sold mine.

The 17-50 (never tried one but know of many who use this) will give you the extra at the wide end that you should have. When you gotta have it you gotta have it. If it isnt long enough you can move closer to the action....but once your back is against a wall you cant back up farther .

Id do the 17-50.

You ought to pose your questions and current gear list in "weddings" and see what other wedding photogs have to say.

Ive been where u are, and have given you honest feedback, but it wouldn't hurt to see where others stand.

Scootersbabygirl

Thanks Jeff - I really, sincerely do appreciate the advice. I hesitate to put my question up on the weddings forum because a number of the people there are very patronizing. Like they forget what it's like to be a starter. The area I live in is extremely rural - we have one professional photographer here. That's it. So he's not willing to work with anyone else for fear of them taking his business. I understand that, but it doesn't make it easy to talk to someone else who knows what they're doing, which is why I so greatly appreciate all of the people here on DGrin who help.

Thank you so much!

borrowlenses.com

Not to sound like a broken record but you can always rent what you need and charge it to the client.

To address your original query though there are a lot of very well taken care of used camera bodies out there. It's obviously much easier if you can get hands on with them before plunking down the cash but if it has a low shutter count and all the original packaging and such there's typically a high likelihood that the camera has been taken care of.

davev

Go to the Fred Miranda site and search for used XSi's.
You can probably get one fairly cheap. Try to buy from people that have a few
great feedback notes, to ease your mind that they aren't going to rob you.
(it could still happen, but I have bought a ton of stuff from that site and it's all been good)

The Tamron 28-70 f2.8 and the Canon 17-50 F2.8 are both good lenses.
On a budget, get the Tamron 17-50 f2.8.
If it's very dark it may hunt for focus, but I've had one for 3 years, that I bought used,
and it's really a good lower priced choice.

For those that think you would look unprofessional because you use an XSi, buy a 3rd party
battery grip for it. Your batteries will last all day, you get the vertical shutter button that
I like, so I don't have to contort my arms for a shot, plus it will give you a better grip on the camera.

If you but the 2nd XSi, it would fit on both of them.
B&H has XSi's new for $485.

A link to the FM buy and sell forum. LINK

ziggy53

Scootersbabygirl wrote:

Hi - I have a speedlight, thanks. Sorry if I got frustrated earlier. I've talked with my husband and we've agreed to go ahead and get another XSi and to get another faster lens. Now we're trying to choose between the Tamron 28-75 or the Tamron 17-50 - what would your recommendation be?

Excellent decision to get the second camera and also a new lens.

I suggest that a standard zoom, and the 17-50mm range is a better definition for a standard zoom on a crop 1.6x camera, is a better choice for wedding work. There are times when the aisles are so tight that it's tough to shoot in the sanctuary without getting pretty close to the subject(s) to avoid the pews. Larger groups are also generally easier with the wide end of that lens.

The disadvantage is that you will need to be closer to the subjects during the ceremony. Eventually a longer, fast prime is also a great idea.

So, get the Tamron 17-50mm, f2.8 XR Di II now but plan on an 85mm or 100mm fast prime later.

travischance

davev wrote:

Go to the Fred Miranda site and search for used XSi's.
You can probably get one fairly cheap. Try to buy from people that have a few
great feedback notes, to ease your mind that they aren't going to rob you.
(it could still happen, but I have bought a ton of stuff from that site and it's all been good)

The Tamron 28-70 f2.8 and the Canon 17-50 F2.8 are both good lenses.
On a budget, get the Tamron 17-50 f2.8.
If it's very dark it may hunt for focus, but I've had one for 3 years, that I bought used,
and it's really a good lower priced choice.

For those that think you would look unprofessional because you use an XSi, buy a 3rd party
battery grip for it. Your batteries will last all day, you get the vertical shutter button that
I like, so I don't have to contort my arms for a shot, plus it will give you a better grip on the camera.

If you but the 2nd XSi, it would fit on both of them.
B&H has XSi's new for $485.

A link to the FM buy and sell forum. LINK

also look at www.usedcameras.com (they offer extended warranties as well on used bodies, lenses & accessories). Best of luck to you!

Art Scott

Just saw an XSi on ebay for ~380 and there you can get a SQuare Trade Warranty for them also......to me for used equipment that warranty can be a headache saver.........

I will still suggest the Sigma 17-70f2.8-4 macro OS HSM ..........it will close focus enuff for those very close up ring shots and decor shots of the cake without having to crop them down.........and even thos it is a variable aperture it is not a super slow lens.........Most of my wedding shooting, including the film days was above f2.8 and much closer to 4.5 and 5.6 and I used 100iso film or slower for weddings...............


I will also toss a caveat towards borrow lenses......it might be worthwhile to rent a lens or 2 to tryout on the first couple of weddings.......I am suggesting you rent 2 lenses of different brands but close to same aperture and focal lengths to test......that way you using them in YOUR world not just taking the advice given here........the lens must feel good to you...........I have tried some lenses at camera shops that had been recommended to me and did not like the way they felt attached to my camera........if it doesn't feel good you won't use it no matter how great of pictures you take with it............

Good Luck with your decision........

angevin1

Art Scott wrote:

Just saw an XSi on ebay for ~380 and there you can get a SQuare Trade Warranty for them also......to me for used equipment that warranty can be a headache saver.........

I will still suggest the Sigma 17-70f2.8-4 macro OS HSM ..........it will close focus enuff for those very close up ring shots and decor shots of the cake without having to crop them down.........and even thos it is a variable aperture it is not a super slow lens.........Most of my wedding shooting, including the film days was above f2.8 and much closer to 4.5 and 5.6 and I used 100iso film or slower for weddings...............


I will also toss a caveat towards borrow lenses......it might be worthwhile to rent a lens or 2 to tryout on the first couple of weddings.......I am suggesting you rent 2 lenses of different brands but close to same aperture and focal lengths to test......that way you using them in YOUR world not just taking the advice given here........the lens must feel good to you...........I have tried some lenses at camera shops that had been recommended to me and did not like the way they felt attached to my camera........if it doesn't feel good you won't use it no matter how great of pictures you take with it............

Good Luck with your decision........

Art Scott...you really sell the deal on those Sigma lenses...I'm going to have to try more of them.

No offense to the OP, but at $450 for a Wedding, renting and charging the customer ain't going to happen.

Sounds like the Op is on the right track though with lens/body considerations~ Good Luck~

GadgetRick

Art Scott wrote:

Just saw an XSi on ebay for ~380 and there you can get a SQuare Trade Warranty for them also......to me for used equipment that warranty can be a headache saver.........

I will still suggest the Sigma 17-70f2.8-4 macro OS HSM ..........it will close focus enuff for those very close up ring shots and decor shots of the cake without having to crop them down.........and even thos it is a variable aperture it is not a super slow lens.........Most of my wedding shooting, including the film days was above f2.8 and much closer to 4.5 and 5.6 and I used 100iso film or slower for weddings...............


I will also toss a caveat towards borrow lenses......it might be worthwhile to rent a lens or 2 to tryout on the first couple of weddings.......I am suggesting you rent 2 lenses of different brands but close to same aperture and focal lengths to test......that way you using them in YOUR world not just taking the advice given here........the lens must feel good to you...........I have tried some lenses at camera shops that had been recommended to me and did not like the way they felt attached to my camera........if it doesn't feel good you won't use it no matter how great of pictures you take with it............

Good Luck with your decision........

Great points! Hadn't really thought about renting two different manufacturers' lenses. Have to do that the next time I'm looking...

JohnBiggs

Scootersbabygirl wrote:

Hi - I have a speedlight, thanks. Sorry if I got frustrated earlier. I've talked with my husband and we've agreed to go ahead and get another XSi and to get another faster lens. Now we're trying to choose between the Tamron 28-75 or the Tamron 17-50 - what would your recommendation be?

I agree with two XSi (same memory, same battery, same controls, same performance, etc. Much lower cost and less to worry about in the end)

I suggest the 28-75mm. It's what I have done all my weddings with. It is a great wedding + reception lens.

EDIT: the Tamron 28-75mm 2.8 does macro and works on full frame just as well. The price is under 400 used.

HeatherWB

Also check out KEH.com for used gear. They tend to be conservative in rating the condition of what they sell, but if you wind up getting a dud, they've got a great return policy, too.

Heather

Test-Pilot

jeffreaux2 wrote:

Then you should consider the Tamron 28-75mm F2.8 as a purchase, and renting a second body. You will likely need a speedlight for the events as well.

Here's another resounding endorsement for the Tammy 28-75mm f2.8

I believe that it's in the neighborhood of $300 brand new, with used copies available for cheaper. And it's a GREAT lens!!! You'll wonder how the he!! it's so (relatively) cheap when you see the quality of the images from it.