15 Square - Feedback requested
michswiss
Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 2,235 Major grins
Hi everyone. I'd like to ask for 10 minutes of your time, or specifically 9:59. This is my first attempt at a HD slideshow as well as a documentation compilation.
A little background. The title refers to the 15 square blocks I've been documenting over the last two years. It is a vibrant community in the heart of Shanghai that is under constant stress due to continuously encroaching development. The area will be transformed into expat schools, apartments and restaurants over the next 5 years.
15 Square
All feedback and hints are welcome. The style is designed for a monthly photography event "Shanghai Photographer's Night." This was composed in Aperture 3.0. I'm still learning how to control the mystical methods it has for choosing the slide sets and transitions beyond simply slide ordering.
I am also working on a more traditional set of images for a printed version of the story. Thanks in advance.
A little background. The title refers to the 15 square blocks I've been documenting over the last two years. It is a vibrant community in the heart of Shanghai that is under constant stress due to continuously encroaching development. The area will be transformed into expat schools, apartments and restaurants over the next 5 years.
15 Square
All feedback and hints are welcome. The style is designed for a monthly photography event "Shanghai Photographer's Night." This was composed in Aperture 3.0. I'm still learning how to control the mystical methods it has for choosing the slide sets and transitions beyond simply slide ordering.
I am also working on a more traditional set of images for a printed version of the story. Thanks in advance.
0
Comments
On the photos? On the slideshow?
You know I like the photographs. The slideshow works a treat.
My only negative comment is that the music is not - in my opinion -
matched to the content. It's a great song, but it doesn't fit with the
photographs. It would go well with a slideshow of punting on the Cam.
That's a vibrant and busy neighborhood. Probably, if one were there,
loud and raucous with the shouts of people, the clatter of pots and pans,
and the cries of babies and animals. The music is dreamy, but the area is not.
I should suggest something better, but I haven't the foggiest.
http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/
Whether the slide show tells a story or takes you on a journey? Plus, any technical comments or images that simply don't work?
I know the music is always going to be a matter of personal taste. I selected it exactly because it is "dreamy." The shows I've been to at "Shanghai Photographer Night" have had "thump, thump" music and I really don't want "thump, thump." I don't think anything "oriental" is a good idea either, especially given the audience are already here.
I had originally thought to use the King Singers to juxtapose western sensibilities on local Shanghai but I don't think it's modern enough for the venue. Any other ideas?
Thanks for taking the time to look.
Music: I agree with Tony that the music needs reconsidering, especially the first number. How about some New Age instrumentals or something else (jazz?)?
The format with 3 pics: I did not really like this as the pics distract from one another. I do not know which will change and jump around from pic to pic which really does not do it justice. Also, some are 1/4 the size than if only one shot were up, AND it seems like many of your shots are cropped to fit the format which makes them worse as a photo. I would prefer one shot at a time to be larger and appreciated in its own right.
Hope this helps. The photos are outstanding and it is easier to note what I did not like, even though the entire presentation is excellent.
Once I managed to get it all downloaded so that I could watch it without pauses (SM videos stink in Spain, don't know why), it was a treat to watch. Many old favorites and lots more that I had never seen, including some truly outstanding color work.
I don't generally care for music in slideshows, and in fact, I usually turn it off when present. The reason is that being musical myself, music tends to take over my brain to the point that I pay less attention to what I'm seeing. This is fine for rock videos, but less suitable for viewing fine art photography. If you think you must have sound, I would suggest recording street sounds in the neighborhood and keeping it discreet. I think I saw something here from Nir that did that, and it worked well.
I would like to see more full frame and fewer three or four image panels. When you do use multi-image panels, try to pay more attention to the overall composition--there were a few points at which the forms of one image merged or clashed with the others in unfortunate ways. I would also simplify the transitions, maybe eliminating the sub-frame substitutions altogether and just fading from one whole panel to another. But then, I can't stand to watch CNN news and some people actually like it (not talking about content here, just visual presentation).
I read recently that one of the best ways to improve your photography is to show only your very best work. If you forced yourself to choose only, say, half of the pics and doing fewer multi-image panels, I think it would be even more impressive than it is already.
- I understand this area is being re-developed. Is the intent of the slide show to show life as it is now ... lamenting the fact that it's all going to change as in "This is all going away, things are going to change and not for the better" or is it about life as it is now and the fact that it's going to change for the better - as in "There's hope in the future". Your choice of music, for me anyway, doesn't help clarify this question. So, if your intent was to leave this question open to interpretation, you were successful in that.
- The 3- and 4-up frames - I thought they worked for the most part. I really liked the concept. I do think you may want to ensure that there's a strong conceptual connection between all the images in the frame - they should, when taken together, tell a mini-story of their own.
- I did not like the transitions ... at all. I would have much more preferred them to be either a bit slower to slide in or to fade in. What you have now is just a bit jarring.
- The music. The transitions from one song to the next - there's an uncomfortable gap of dead air that should be fixed. Either minimize the gap or fade from one song to the next. Also, need to work on the timing of the last song as it cuts off a bit abruptly at 9:57 (or so) - think about cutting some of the song from the middle so the song finishes at the end of the slideshow.
- The photography - not a lot that can be said here. I love the B&W work. I'm a sucker for good B&W and this among the best I've seen in some time. The color images, the few that there were, worked very well and were a good use of color. If you cropped some of the images to make them fit in the 3- and 4-image frames, I think the cropping was well done. One case in point - there's a point where you have a shot of a crowd in what looks like a 4:11 ratio image at the bottom of the frame when a couple or three images above it. The proportions of the image and the subject matter really worked well together.
A final, parting, shot - you worked on this project for the last two years. I think spending a bit more time to finish the raw edges would be time well spent.My Photos
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I enjoyed the work but not the music. I think Richard's idea a subdued street sounds
would be real good and flow better with the images.
Your work/time here is well spent and as Scott mentioned a little finishing touches here and
there and you got a winner
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with the music and not the photographs...and I led it off.
I really like Richard's suggestion of replacing the music with street sounds, but I don't know
if that's a feasible option. And, I don't know if the person who put in 2 1/2 years of work on
the project would go along with it.
I case I wasn't clear in my first post, the photographs - the real body of work - are an impressive
gathering of documentation. The idea of concentrating on one specific area is brilliant.
http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/
Finally home, but having trouble with the streaming.
Will try again early tomorrow - hoping for a better internet connection.
Just wanting you to know that what I have seen so far is wonderful and I am truly looking forward to seeing the whole video and sharing my comments with you.
Virginia
"A photograph is a secret about a secret. The more it tells you, the less you know." Diane Arbus
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I like the music. I agree that the transitions between songs could be shortened.
I think I need to watch a couple more times before giving other suggestions.
The feedback has been wonderful and exactly what I needed. The version I posted was composed in Aperture 3 and it's good as far as it goes, but it doesn't have the controls to get to where I think, and you've confirmed, the slideshow needs to be. I'm looking at my authoring tools, including ways to better control transitions, dynamic cropping and audio. I'll rethink the music selection and experiment with street sounds. (Good idea Richard)
One thing I learned through putting together this first version is that sometimes my best shots didn't work in the story and some average shots presented together on a single page worked wonderfully. I'm thinking of the nighttime dancing crowds that Scott mentioned and the colour buildout of the abandoned buildings that finishes with Mao's image. Individually I've never thought they were that special, but together much more powerful.
I do need to select the 15-20 or so anchor images that define the printed set as well as the full frame slide show images.
I'll post all the images in a new gallery on my Smugmug site over the weekend and hopefully I can have a new draft of the slide show done in a couple of weeks. I figure I've got a month or two of work to get it in shape to share beyond this community.
Thanks again and keep your eyes peeled for the next version.
The photographs are fabulous. I liked the groupings and transitions. I love the way you wove the color photos with your amazing black and whites.
After sitting with it a while, here are my further thoughts. (Please keep in mind that I have never made a video except using Animoto.)
It seems a little too long. I am comfortable with the speed of transition of the pictures but I think that you might want to tighten up the last quarter or so of the show. The last set of images makes a great ending, but it felt almost abrupt. Perhaps there is a way to build up to it. Maybe (and I'll have to go back and look again), the sets of photos in the latter part of the show don't come together quite as well as earlier. Not sure, but you might want to look at it and see what you think.
I understand why people have talked about the music. The photos are simply wonderful so not too much to say!! So'll I had my 2 cents worth.
The words to the first piece seemed to me to fit somehow. I do understand, however, that the relaxed, quiet character might not work for everyone. Yes, the transition to the second song needs to be fixed. I guess my major question (one I would ask myself in your position - don't know what my answer would be) is whether you want a connection between the music (rhythm and/or lyrics) and the story you are telling and whether, for you as the artist, these pieces do it. Also, you may have an idea of how your audience is likely to react (better than we do).
Best of luck with this. I am sure it will be a big hit. It is a lovely presentation of a beautiful and meaningful body of work.
Can't wait for the book!!
Virginia
"A photograph is a secret about a secret. The more it tells you, the less you know." Diane Arbus
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Okay, Jen, here's the Old Guy take on this - Too clever by half.
This is a really terrific project, and many of the photos are excellent. You have definitely done an outstanding job of documenting the neighborhood. But the slide show turns the whole thing into a 1960 High School year book.
Don't get me wrong - I have absolutely nothing against slide shows, or against slide shows with music. The problem here is that in creating the collages you detract from the photos. With or without borders they visually bleed into one another, denying the viewer the chance to really absorb them. By putting a large photo and a small photo together as you have, you seem to be telling me 'look at the big guy - this little weenie isn't worth your time. But then you also confuse things by having different photos up for different lengths of time.
I understand that slide shows are not books. But take a look at a dozen photo books - and pick major books; what you will see - generally - is one photo to a page, or two two pages. Yes, there are some exceptions to this rule. But generally there is either something special about the presentation, or, frankly, it comes across as a failed experiment.
Try this again with one image at a time. Want to use music? Fine. Want to fade them in and out? Want some larger than others? Fine - but if you're going to do that, do it for a reason that is obvious to viewers.
These photos deserve better than this.
"He not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan
"The more ambiguous the photograph is, the better it is..." Leonard Freed
I figured you would eventually chime in. :rutt Advice taken.
As for suggestions.....during the slideshow my brain kept trying to make connections between the grouped photos, which I'm not certain was really your intent. Instead of fully appreciating each photo I was busy trying to reconcile the groupings - which puts me in agreement with BD's previous comment.
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+1. I found it hard to appreciate fully this wonderful body of work with 3 photos at a time. Richard's suggestion of street sounds as soundtrack really appeals to me.
... I'm still peeling potatoes.
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1. No matter how her photographs are displayed to the photography group, viewers are going to go away wanting more. More photos. More time to enjoy each one. More time to think about what they are seeing. This is good. Maybe it will encourage folks to buy the book.
2. Her audience is likely to be familiar with the area she has photographed - or at least the cultural context, unlike many of us on dGrin. This will make her presentation easier to grasp. I personally had no trouble enjoying it (except that my attention span lagged a bit at the end). Of course, I am familiar with a number of the her photographs already (though not the city). From some of the comments of earlier posters, I was not the only one who responded positively to the format of the presentation.
3. The type of video presentation also depends on the age and make up of the audience. In today's world, a lively pace is needed to keep viewer interest. 10 minutes is a long time. Figuring out the right balance for the visual presentation and choosing music that aids in keeping viewer interest is not only really difficult, but very time consuming. I'm reminded of the Twain comment that he would have written a shorter letter if he had had more time.
4. Ignore most of the above if the slide show will be a standing exhibit that people look at for however long they are interested then move on. If that is the case, I'd probably go with presenting one photo at a time backed with quiet music.
I hope the op will share the final result with us and also the responses from her audience. Meanwhile, I have forwarded a link to the presentation to my sister and her husband who are off to Shanghi in a few weeks.
"A photograph is a secret about a secret. The more it tells you, the less you know." Diane Arbus
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Can't wait to see your finished product.
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Even more amazing is that you were able to capture the atmosphere, the people, almost every corner of those 15 square blocks with such evident passion and sensitivity!
Loose the music. If you're still there record ambient sound, perhaps even music you can pick up on the streets in your 15 square blocks.
As much as I enjoyed it 10 minutes is too much.
Beautiful project!
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