Now that the iPad is out...

South Shore Snapshots

What can I do about my flash slideshow?

Is there an html5 work around yet?
Is there a way to bypass my main page and just go sytraight to my /galleries page for iPad users only?

Thanks

Rob

jfriend

HTML5 is a long ways from being a standard replacement for video. We have no two browsers with HTML5 that are yet supporting common video codecs and some browsers with no HTML5 support at all.

But, you do raise an interesting idea. What about an automatic redirect to the galleries page when someone hits your homepage from a browser that doesn't support flash. I'll think about that one. It would be a great feature to add to the stretchy slideshow customization too.

Robertk

What is your definition of a long ways?

jfriend wrote:

HTML5 is a long ways from being a standard replacement for video. We have no two browsers with HTML5 that are yet supporting common video codecs and some browsers with no HTML5 support at all.

jfriend

Robertk wrote:

What is your definition of a long ways?

Well, if you're waiting until the installed base of IE6, IE7 and IE8 upgrade to an HTML5 capable browser, it's many years from now. The earliest that it could be available is an upgrade to IE8 or IE9, we don't even when that will be. Beyond that, even the browsers that have HTML5 video support don't support the same video codecs. See this article if you want to understand some of the issues.

South Shore Snapshots

jfriend wrote:

But, you do raise an interesting idea. What about an automatic redirect to the galleries page when someone hits your homepage from a browser that doesn't support flash. I'll think about that one. It would be a great feature to add to the stretchy slideshow customization too.

It sure would! Keep us iPad users posted please!

jfriend

South Shore Snapshots wrote:

It sure would! Keep us iPad users posted please!

If you use my stretchy slideshow, I've already updated it to support an automatic redirect when flash is not installed. I haven't done a customization for the regular slideshow yet. I'll post here if I do one.

Robertk

. I understand the issues but if you believe it will be years then I think you are mistaken. Apple killed the floppy and they will kill flash.

jfriend wrote:

Well, if you're waiting until the installed base of IE6, IE7 and IE8 upgrade to an HTML5 capable browser, it's many years from now. The earliest that it could be available is an upgrade to IE8 or IE9, we don't even when that will be. Beyond that, even the browsers that have HTML5 video support don't support the same video codecs. See this article if you want to understand some of the issues.

RichardBrackin

Are non-flash Shiz Slides and Shiz Vidz redirects planned?

jfriend wrote:

If you use my stretchy slideshow, I've already updated it to support an automatic redirect when flash is not installed. I haven't done a customization for the regular slideshow yet. I'll post here if I do one.

Is there a plan to re-direct Shiz Slides and Shiz Vidz to non-flash browsers as well?
Is it technically possible and practical?

Or implement RipCode?
http://www.ripcode.com/news/newsRelease.php?id=42

rich56k

Possible non-flash slideshow option...
Wouldn't the old 'bigwebguy slideshow hack' (circa 2007) work on iPad and iPhone?

I've searched extensively here on dgrin and every thread that showed that code has been deleted (if anyone still has copies of the code please let me know)

Any thoughts or possible replacement options (I'll gladly be a beta tester!)?

Look I don't know jack about code (I'm just a cut and paster) but it seems odd that if "we" had great functioning non-flash slideshow code 3 + years ago why can't "we" have it again??

Thanks

rich56k

Allen

rich56k wrote:

Wouldn't the old 'bigwebguy slideshow hack' (circa 2007) work on iPad and iPhone?

I've searched extensively here on dgrin and every thread that showed that code has been deleted (if anyone still has copies of the code please let me know)

Any thoughts or possible replacement options (I'll gladly be a beta tester!)?

Look I don't know jack about code (I'm just a cut and paster) but it seems odd that if "we" had great functioning non-flash slideshow code 3 + years ago why can't "we" have it again??

Thanks

rich56k

Old slideshow works on the iPhone.
http://atsmith2.smugmug.com/

Maybe somehow use IF statement if mobile run this.

jfriend

Allen wrote:

Old slideshow works on the iPhone.
http://atsmith2.smugmug.com/

Maybe somehow use IF statement if mobile run this.

My understanding is that the old JS slideshow was never updated to work with image keys and thus doesn't work with recently uploaded images (anything in the last 1-1/2 yrs).

Allen

jfriend wrote:

My understanding is that the old JS slideshow was never updated to work with image keys and thus doesn't work with recently uploaded images (anything in the last 1-1/2 yrs).

You're right. Looking at the show I got running only the old, without key,
photos are showing. At least it's running though.

rich56k

Thanks Allen and John,

This sounds very encouraging!

So wouldn't one possible option be to utilize the time/date feature to determine 'available' (non-key) images, create a gallery of said images and we CAN in fact offer slideshows on our homepage via iPhone/iPad (albeit older images)?

Dare I assume the more involved method (way over my head) would require updating the JS version to be capable of utilizing the 'newer' (with key) images?

Either way seems like we're heading in the right direction!?

Any thoughts / suggestions?

Again I'm more than willing to be a beta tester!

-Rich

jfriend

rich56k wrote:

Thanks Allen and John,

This sounds very encouraging!

So wouldn't one possible option be to utilize the time/date feature to determine 'available' (non-key) images, create a gallery of said images and we CAN in fact offer slideshows on our homepage via iPhone/iPad (albeit older images)?

Dare I assume the more involved method (way over my head) would require updating the JS version to be capable of utilizing the 'newer' (with key) images?

Either way seems like we're heading in the right direction!?

Any thoughts / suggestions?

Again I'm more than willing to be a beta tester!

-Rich

I don't know whether you can "create" a gallery of old images. "Old" means when they images were put in the gallery. Anything you create now is "new". Yes, someone could "fix" the old slideshow to work with image keys, but that would need both a volunteer to do the work initially and probably someone to stay with it and keep it current when something else in Smugmug changes requiring it to be updated.

Allen

Just a thought. If you made a 2nd copy of some old, w/o key, photos, the
2nd copy would get a key along with a new photo number. Move the
originals, no key, to a show gallery, then use "replace photo" with any new
photo. I think by replacing the photo, the number doesn't change and maybe
no key is added.

jfriend

Allen wrote:

Just a thought. If you made a 2nd copy of some old, w/o key, photos, the
2nd copy would get a key along with a new photo number. Move the
originals, no key, to a show gallery, then use "replace photo" with any new
photo. I think by replacing the photo, the number doesn't change and maybe
no key is added.

I wouldn't count on this working unless you've specifically tried it and found it to work. Seems like a lot of trouble to me. My guess is that a few of the Smuggies are iPad fanboys enough that they will solve this issue on their own perhaps with an HTML5 implementation.

South Shore Snapshots

jfriend wrote:

I wouldn't count on this working unless you've specifically tried it and found it to work. Seems like a lot of trouble to me. My guess is that a few of the Smuggies are iPad fanboys enough that they will solve this issue on their own perhaps with an HTML5 implementation.

Us "fanboys" can only hope so, and soon. Though I understand SJ's approach to Flash, until the rest of the web gets with the program, it's mildly irritating to say the least.

jfriend

South Shore Snapshots wrote:

Us "fanboys" can only hope so, and soon. Though I understand SJ's approach to Flash, until the rest of the web gets with the program, it's mildly irritating to say the least.

FYI, customization #28 here will automatically redirect your homepage visitors to another page (like your gallery listing page) if flash is not installed. It works on iPad, iPhone, Android phones, etc...

South Shore Snapshots

Awesome will make that swap once I find some customization free time.

JohnR

jfriend wrote:

HTML5 is a long ways from being a standard replacement for video. We have no two browsers with HTML5 that are yet supporting common video codecs and some browsers with no HTML5 support at all.

Yet, facebook goes html5 for iPad

I'm sorry, but the excuse you are giving is that...an excuse. If you are waiting for IE to support it, yeah...you are right. But how about those other browsers out there? Why not lead the way instead of following along?

oh wait, here's why:

jfriend wrote:

I wouldn't count on this working unless you've specifically tried it and found it to work. Seems like a lot of trouble to me. My guess is that a few of the Smuggies are iPad fanboys enough that they will solve this issue on their own perhaps with an HTML5 implementation.

You are waiting for someone else to do it. Gotcha.

jfriend

JohnR wrote:

Yet, facebook goes html5 for iPad

I'm sorry, but the excuse you are giving is that...an excuse. If you are waiting for IE to support it, yeah...you are right. But how about those other browsers out there? Why not lead the way instead of following along?

oh wait, here's why:



You are waiting for someone else to do it. Gotcha.

According to the article I read on this topic, it turns out facebook isn't using any HTML5 at all. They're just serving up videos in a video format that iPad and iPhone are known to have a player for. Actually, they've done the opposite of use a standard - they've detected a particular platform and served up something special and non-open-standard for that particular platform.

JohnR

So they actually saw a problem and instead of waiting around for the standard, decided to fix their problem themselves. Pretty forward-thinking.

“In our tests this morning, it appears that Facebook isn’t actually using HTML5 to display the videos. Instead, what appears to be going on is that Facebook.com is detecting that you’ve arrived to the website via the Safari web browser on the iPad. When you then attempt to play a video on the iPad, it doesn’t play inline (something that would have been a clear confirmation of an HTML5 implementation). Instead, Facebook is linking out to the actual video, transcoded to MP4, a video format that plays on Apple devices.

So...why can't Smugmug switch from Flash to something better and more compatible?

Andy

JohnR wrote:

So they actually saw a problem and instead of waiting around for the standard, decided to fix their problem themselves. Pretty forward-thinking.



So...why can't Smugmug switch from Flash to something better and more compatible?

last time I checked, Facebook has a few thousand more programmers than we did

We're going to do something on this, thanks for your patience. In the meantime, enjoy slideshows on our iPad App.

And if you are a power or pro customer, take the 30seconds it takes to install Jfriend's hack -go visit http://moonriverphotography.com on your iPhone or iPad, it works great.

Thanks.

denisegoldberg

JohnR wrote:

I'm sorry, but the excuse you are giving is that...an excuse. If you are waiting for IE to support it, yeah...you are right. But how about those other browsers out there? Why not lead the way instead of following along?

oh wait, here's why:

You are waiting for someone else to do it. Gotcha.

I find it interesting that you are responding in such a sarcastic way to an individual who is a SmugMug customer just like you are.

I understand that you're not happy about this - but why direct your frustration at another forum participant?

--- Denise

JohnR

Thanks Andy. Your response made better sense than what jfriend was offering up. Not having the programmers is understandable.

I don't have an iPad yet, but will some day soon!

Andy

JohnR wrote:

Thanks Andy. Your response made better sense than what jfriend was offering up. Not having the programmers is understandable.

I don't have an iPad yet, but will some day soon!

Well, we have 12 now But they're all busy on higher priority stuff

jfriend

JohnR wrote:

So they actually saw a problem and instead of waiting around for the standard, decided to fix their problem themselves. Pretty forward-thinking.



So...why can't Smugmug switch from Flash to something better and more compatible?

In defense of Smugmug on this one, serving up unique content for particular platforms in a way that does not use standards and will not be extensible to other platforms is a high cost way to solve a problem. If your company finds this a high priority and you can afford to do one-off programming and testing for specific platforms, it is a way to solve the problem, but it is not an efficient use of developer resources in the long run. The more "forward thinking" mechanism is to find a way that both addresses the problem and uses future standards, where the solution is extensible to other platforms and won't have to be redone in the future and won't require unique testing or unique implementation on individual platforms. Hopefully, that is what Smugmug is doing (though I have no inside knowledge).

JohnR

Denise, my bad. I thought he was an employee or something. I really don't know who's an employee or who's not.

What rubbed me the wrong way was his response to people's questions. Kinda flippant. Especially saying that HTML5 has to wait until IE gets caught up. I don't think it's a secret that IE is the one that is non-standard in their html output. Why not leave those using IE out in the cold and move on with html5?

From his link:

Several browsers including Google Chrome, Apple Safari and Mozilla Firefox support HTML 5 video already, though to date Microsoft's Internet Explorer (IE) does not.

Andy

JohnR wrote:

Denise, my bad. I thought he was an employee or something. I really don't know who's an employee or who's not.

Jfriend's Dgrin name says he's a SmugMug volunteer We try to have all the SmugMug folks also say who they are as well, on their Dgrin names and their sigs.

Here are the SmugMug People:
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?p=463290

Ric Grupe

Wait for a non-apple gadget that conforms to the standards instead of breaking them...unless you really are a "fanboy" that is.

They'll be coming.

jfriend

JohnR wrote:

Denise, my bad. I thought he was an employee or something. I really don't know who's an employee or who's not.

What rubbed me the wrong way was his response to people's questions. Kinda flippant. Especially saying that HTML5 has to wait until IE gets caught up. I don't think it's a secret that IE is the one that is non-standard in their html output. Why not leave those using IE out in the cold and move on with html5?

From his link:

First off, nobody running a web business finds it in their own best business interests to leave IE viewers out in the cold. I'm sure many, many, many web developers want to do that because IE is such a pain, but the market reality is that your business will suffer if you cut off IE users.

Second, I'm a bit confused as to what you agree/disagree with or what you thought I did that was flippant.

I'm only trying to get the facts out on the table. Many people are under the mistaken impression that the existing HTML5 implementation in Safari and Firefox support a new, standard non-flash video format and if a site just starts using this new magical format, then Safari and Firefox video will just work without Flash. Unfortunately (for all of us), this is not yet true. While Safari and Firefox both support a portion of HTML5 and both support a video format, they don't both support the same video format. Firefox will only use an open source video format that isn't encumbered by patents/licensing and Apple doesn't believe that the open source video format is good enough. So, if one wanted to use HTML5 with Safari and Firefox and still allow users of IE and older browsers to all see your video, you'd have to create three versions of video:

1. One HTML5 video format for Firefox
2. One HTML5 video format for Safari
3. One Flash video format for IE and older browsers

Hopefully you can see that this is hardly yet a big step forward. In fact, some would argue it's a step backwards since you used to only have to support one flash format and now you have to support three formats. If Firefox, Safari and HTML5 could at least agree on ONE standard video format, then the situation would start to get more tenable and you could have the one new forward-looking format and the legacy flash format with the legacy flash format dying out over time. But, as it is now, we're not there yet.

And, to further complicate matters, Smugmug doesn't only use flash for video. It also uses flash for slideshows, for badges and for clipboard access (in the Share screen) since the browser by itself generally doesn't allow clipboard access. So, to rid the Smugmug viewing experience of flash entirely, they also have to solve these other problems.

I think the technology is generally headed towards HTML5, but the current implementations are still in their infancy with lots of issues to deal with.