Alien Bees with Modified Sine Wave Inverter?
Jeremy Winterberg
Registered Users Posts: 1,233 Major grins
I know you're supposed to use a 150W Pure Sine Wave Inverter (pswi) to convert a 12v battery with alien bees when on location. What I want to know is if anyone has tried using them with a Modified Sine Wave Inverter (mswi)? Anything (bad) happen?
Since the pswi's are expensive ($140 is the cheapest I've seen), I was wondering if its only bad to use AB with a mswi for extended periods of time.
For example, if I were to use a mswi it would only be for 15-20 minutes at a time. Are the damaging effects something that happens the instant you plug the strobes in? or are they something that happens after being plugged in for 45mins+ or is it random.
Also, what are the damaging effects? It doesn't say on the Alien Bee website, only that you must use a pswi.
Any help would be appreciated. I'm not planning on using them with a mswi unless I have substantial evidence that says it doesn't do anything.
Also, if you have links to DIY versions of the Vegabond (what I'm trying to create), that would help out.
Since the pswi's are expensive ($140 is the cheapest I've seen), I was wondering if its only bad to use AB with a mswi for extended periods of time.
For example, if I were to use a mswi it would only be for 15-20 minutes at a time. Are the damaging effects something that happens the instant you plug the strobes in? or are they something that happens after being plugged in for 45mins+ or is it random.
Also, what are the damaging effects? It doesn't say on the Alien Bee website, only that you must use a pswi.
Any help would be appreciated. I'm not planning on using them with a mswi unless I have substantial evidence that says it doesn't do anything.
Also, if you have links to DIY versions of the Vegabond (what I'm trying to create), that would help out.
Jer
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The problem is that modified sine wave power inverters have a combination of too much noise (harmonic distortion in particular) and too little efficiency, compared to a "real" sine wave inverter or line power.
Modified sine wave is OK for shunt motors, some (but not all) induction motors, some laptop computers' power supplies and many resistance devices (to the power limits of the inverter).
"True/Pure" Sine Wave inverters have greater RMS efficiencies and typically low distortion, generally much more suitable for electronic devices. Some "digital" controls for studio electronic flash units also have a problem with even the best True/Pure Sine Wave inverters so even they are not perfect.
For the best performance stay with individual manufacturer recommendations.
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I'm not going to, I really just want to know what would happen if I were to use one. I obviously don't want to break my AB800's. They're too amazing to die young!
Making a DIY vagabond is relatively simple, but in the end, it would make better sense to use the manufacturers device simply because these folks stand behind their products so well, and you'd save maybe $30. or even if you manage to save more...not at all worth the expense of having to fork over the replacement money for both items.
You want to know what would happen if you used a MSWI? It'd just be more likely to blow S__t up, rather quickly, like in ten to twenty minutes~
if you care about your gear, and you appear to, you'll utilize the proper eq!
So yes, it is possible to build one, and use it..Question is can you bear the expense of failure?
So it saves a considerable amount.
Now, would I be ok with the very, very small risk of it breaking my equipment? Yes, because it would have the same amount of risk that the actual vegabond has. Which is near no risk at all.
Well, there you go..As happens so many times, we answer our own questions~
Not exactly......will you be covered by any warranty if your DIY blows your Vagabond ....... (not vegabond
Are you pricing exact same sine wave inverterr that Paul Buff uses???
Can't say it is the same as if it is not the same as.......so is a lesser model just as good....Paul doesn't think so or he would not be using the ones he does......there are a lot things you are not considering here.....R&D costs.........Paul's group doesn't just toss s**t together......look at the stall on the Einstein......if Paul isn't happy it doesn't ship or become available to the public.......you can toss something together but would it pass quality tests.....it pass UL testing......these things are all paid for by a manufacturing company and is passed along to the consumer of course.....so each Vagabond has a few pennies of the price to pay for U.L testing and also testing in Canada and New Zealand or where ever they are sold........................
I know you said above you had no intention of using a MSWI ...........so why would your ask that question, especially after admitting to know that one should never use an MSWI.........also you have Paul Buff Equipment, so why didn't you ask them??? Afraid they might cancel your warranties on the AB's you own..............
Art, I have a feeling your post is worded wrong. Because I do not understand it at all. I'm sure once you clear it up I'll find it as funny as you do.
the quoted line was telling you that the item Paul Buff sells is a VAGABOND not vegabond.....I was correcting your spelling and also saying I have never liked anything named Vega.........especially the one item AI did own named vega.........
nope not worded wrong.........I am saying you have greater risk with a DIY than with Buff Equipment.......YOUR DIY PSWI will not cover the loss of the AB's.......If a Vagabond Blows my old WL's they will be covered..............not only could that DIY inverter fry an AB but all things connected to it.....PW's or any other trigger attached to the AB......so the Risk is Greater in a magnitude of ways............
You edited your original post. My comment was on the previous version of it, which is what I quoted in my last post. What I quoted, makes absofrickenlutely no sense to me. "If your DIY blows your Vagabond" ? My DIY is to replace a vegabond to power my Alien Bees.
I understand what you mean now after reading your edited version. You meant, if my DIY blows my Alien Bees I'm screwed. But, why would they blow when I'm using a recommended inverter by Paul C Buff himself?
Why I asked this in the first place? Because no one else did. I wanted to know to gain knowledge on every aspect of this product. I've been searching everywhere for a Pure Sine Wave inverter. And whoever is shopping with me always asks, "why do you need pure sine wave when there is a modified sine wave inverter here?". And I would like to tell them more information other than, "pure sine wave has a cleaner output than modified... thats all I know really." Now I can say, "Some 'product experts' say that using a modified sine wave inverter will cause my alien bees to overheat, and possibly blow up internal components."
<- See how much smarter I sound now in that second statement
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The easiest way to convert battery power to AC is to switch the output of the battery back and forth, in effect swapping the + and - leads, periodically. This produces a square wave. You can filter this output to round the corners of the square wave, but it still is pretty square.
To produce true AC is harder because it takes more components, in effect you are making something like an amplifier, not a simple switcher.
The problem is the power in a signal is determined, for a given load like an alien bee, by the area under if voltage/time curve. More area, more power. The load has to somehow deal with all the power in the signal. Here is a crummy illustration:
As you move from a pure sine wave to a square wave the amount of power the load has to deal with goes up. Extra power means extra heat, and the difference between a sine wave and a square is actually quite a lot.
Some loads can deal with it pretty easily and other not so well. Some devices are just designed to handle the heat and the noise (the more square a corner is the more noise in it) and some are not.
In the end you can only go by what the manufacturer says if you want to be sure.
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I use this power setup to run my AB800 remotely. Recycle time on full power is 2 or 3 seconds and have never run the battery dry on a shoot yet.
$79.00 - PWRI18012S Aims - 180 Watt Pure Sine Wave Inverter 12 Volt (PWRI18012S)
... from eco-distributing.com (shipping cost me $9.32 to San Diego, no tax)
$22.00 - 12V 10Ah Sealed Lead Acid Battery (from amazon)
http://www.amazon.com/D5719-Sealed-Lead-Acid-Batteries/dp/B001DL7D0A
This setup won't give the best performance if you use the modeling lamp at all, but then you're not supposed to use it with the vagabond setup either, and that will cost you well more than double the DIY version.
You'll have to put some connectors on the wires from the inverter to connect to the points on the battery, but a few bucks at radio shack and you have a ton of options on how you might want to do the connections.
At first I was a little worried about the battery weight, but when you nudge it into the bottom of the stand on the AB800, it actually adds some well needed ballast if there's a breeze. I use a velcro strap to hold the battery in place between one of the legs and the support arm underneath it.