Fill Flash, Flowers, and Hoppers

adbsgicom

On our way back from meeting a family for a wildflower shoot, we noticed a train stopped on the tracks, so we went around to the accessible side of the tracks, found a place where there was some sparse wildflowers, these green railroad hoppers with graffiti on them, and a ton of backlighting. C&C more than welcome.

1. No fill flash


2. Not exactly fill even though the FEC was -1 2/3 (EC = 0EV) full matrix metering


3. Changed over to the 85 f/1.8 (@ 2.8)


4. @1.8


5. @1.8

kidzmom

I really like 1,3 and 4! Those are beautiful shots! #2 and #5, although cute poses have telltale signs of flash (maybe some like that look but I definately prefer to be told that flash was used rather than detect it for myself.). I honestly think my fav is the one without fill #1. Something so much more natural about the colors! She is such a great model! Looks like you 2 have a lot of fun!

divamum

I love 1 and 4. In 1, I know you want the train behind, but I'd love to see it cropped a little tighter at the top - to me there's a "line" of open space above her head which pulls my eye away from her lovely eyes. WIth it blurred out like that I would'nt have known it was a train unless you told me, so I'm not sure you'll be losing that much "effect".

2 is overflashed for me. I guess with a wide ap like that it was just a tad too much even at maximum -FEC (on-camera in these, presumably?)

She's sure growing up!! (they do. WAY WAY WAY too fast. Just wait till you hit middle school next year..... D)

adbsgicom

Diva, Kelly, thanks for the feedback. I'll look at the cropping options on #1.

#2 was posted partly because I was confused why the flash hit so hard. The aperture there was actually 6.3, ISO400, 1/200sec and -1.66 FEC. The canon metering for ETTL still leaves me scratching my head sometimes with a lot of backlight. In the end #2 isn't all that interesting (the top line of the traincar going straight through her head and all), but the amount of flash seemed very off. Perhaps I was too close for the minimum flash distance, but with the 85mm that doesn't seem likely....

Swartzy

Andrew...by the looks of #1, fill flash was not required unless light was changing on you during the other's. Don't be afraid to go -2 FEC and in that much light, drop your EV down by a 1/3rd or two. You'll get richer colors and maybe even a hint of a shadow. In this scenario though, it looks like the light was quite flat and even, diffused if you will throughout the setting.

Flash fill sometimes should be nothing more than a tiny "pop". It looks like she was having fun. You captured her personality well.....she'll be a great subject for many years

Halite

Lovely work. #4 is my favorite of the bunch. The colors are fresh and the flash is just right to highlight your daughter without being obvious.

Compositionally, I really like her casual, comfortable pose. The grass stains on her knees, the in focus wildflower next to her and the light streaming from between the cars in the upper right are all great elements. I'm curious how this shot would look from just a bit lower perspective so that the dark shadow under the railcar doesn't cut through her head, the grass-stained pants are more visible and some of the flowers could provide a touch of framing below her?

adbsgicom

Swartzy wrote:

Andrew...by the looks of #1, fill flash was not required unless light was changing on you during the other's. Don't be afraid to go -2 FEC and in that much light, drop your EV down by a 1/3rd or two. You'll get richer colors and maybe even a hint of a shadow. In this scenario though, it looks like the light was quite flat and even, diffused if you will throughout the setting.

Flash fill sometimes should be nothing more than a tiny "pop". It looks like she was having fun. You captured her personality well.....she'll be a great subject for many years

Swartzy, thanks for the feedback! If I may....

Perhaps I should re-ask this in the discussion thread on fill, but this is something I'm having trouble getting my head around. If you expose to the right, one generally ends up with +EV, but yes, -EV gives richer colors especially for the wildflowers. However, the flash ends up looking more like #2 where there's no doubt the light isn't natural. Is the required solution getting the flash off-camera (thankfully my dw has been coming with so I can have a VAL if needed), but in the general case fill-flash and -EC seem mutually exclusive. I'm likely missing something entirely here. I do get that #2's lighting could have been in a whole other realm had the flash been coming from camera right (perhaps with 1/2-CTO to match the setting sun colors) and flagging the bottom of the flash to not have spilled too much on the flowers. If I do it right and there is some coherence to the lighting, I guess the flash-factor drops and I end up with a better net result. Did I end up answering my own question correctly, or end up down a complete rat-hole?

PS, I changed the lens from the 24-105 f/4 to the 85 f/1.8 after shot 1 (and some others) just to play around, but the light was rapidly dimming, esp from the direction I was shooting.

adbsgicom

Halite, thanks! I've been trying to get her to vary her look and get away from a grit-your-teeth smile. She was enjoying herself quite a bit up to the last frame, when she said, "Done. I'm tired." Trying to get her to laugh some without totally closing her eyes (I guess I need some jokes that aren't too funny).

So if I were down lower, the dark shadow you come around her shoulders, and that would work out better? Not being skeptical, just figuring out some of these composition best-practices since lines through the body are generally bad. I would have thought the suggestion would have been to get a little higher, or her a little lower, or further back so that the green/black transition was completely over her head, but I can see how that would look like a weird border and be a problem too. I think this is the first time I've had this sort of b/g, so I'm haven't developed a good sense of managing the lines.

Thanks for the feedback!

Qarik

I like the non fill flash shot the best. all fill flash did here was flatten out the light. imo fill flash shouldn't be effecting your exposure much...just touch up a few shadows is all. In your case here there aren't much shadows to fill to begin with. #3 is just waaay to much.

l.k.madison

4 is my favorite -- the section of hair across her face just makes it look candid instead of posed - who said every hair had to be in place?

Halite

adbsgicom wrote:

Halite, thanks! I've been trying to get her to vary her look and get away from a grit-your-teeth smile. She was enjoying herself quite a bit up to the last frame, when she said, "Done. I'm tired." Trying to get her to laugh some without totally closing her eyes (I guess I need some jokes that aren't too funny).

So if I were down lower, the dark shadow you come around her shoulders, and that would work out better? Not being skeptical, just figuring out some of these composition best-practices since lines through the body are generally bad. I would have thought the suggestion would have been to get a little higher, or her a little lower, or further back so that the green/black transition was completely over her head, but I can see how that would look like a weird border and be a problem too. I think this is the first time I've had this sort of b/g, so I'm haven't developed a good sense of managing the lines.

Thanks for the feedback!

Don't take my question as a statement that shooting from lower would've definitely been a better choice. It was more of a "I wonder what would happen if..." kind of exploratory approach. Open-ended brainstorming. Which is how I approach shooting, and reviewing the results of, a photo session.

The dark shadow line isn't bad per se. Soft and out-of-focus, it just becomes a compositional element to be played with. Unlike, say, a tree or pole growing out of someone's head! So, compositionally, I could just see where it might be interesting to have that line a bit lower in the frame and a bit more of the railcar showing. Shooting from higher would've eliminated the line, but would've also worked contrary to why you stopped to shoot in that location.

Halite

l.k.madison wrote:

4 is my favorite -- the section of hair across her face just makes it look candid instead of posed - who said every hair had to be in place?

Agree. A seeming "flaw" that in fact contributes to the strength of the image.

sweet caroline

I'm also very drawn to 4. Her relaxed expression, the casual pose, the hair blowing in the breeze, the natural looking light... It all works for me. Her wrist is in a funny position, but it doesn't ruin the shot.

Caroline

adbsgicom

Glad that 4 is getting some love since that did have a spot of flash in it, which means that something went right [1/400s, f/1.8, ISO400, spot metering]. Just need to make that process more repeatable... practice, practice, practice.... I wonder if part of the flash over-exposure is from having the full-frame metering on with the E-TTL and getting too much of the b/g feeding into the equation....?

It will be nothing short of amazing if her hair wasn't going every which way... Definitely part of her character.

adbsgicom

Halite wrote:

Don't take my question as a statement that shooting from lower would've definitely been a better choice. It was more of a "I wonder what would happen if..." kind of exploratory approach. Open-ended brainstorming. Which is how I approach shooting, and reviewing the results of, a photo session.

The dark shadow line isn't bad per se. Soft and out-of-focus, it just becomes a compositional element to be played with. Unlike, say, a tree or pole growing out of someone's head! So, compositionally, I could just see where it might be interesting to have that line a bit lower in the frame and a bit more of the railcar showing. Shooting from higher would've eliminated the line, but would've also worked contrary to why you stopped to shoot in that location.

Gotcha. I wonder if I called the city or the train company, I could find out schedules, or if I'd just get flagged as a potential terrorist....