Print Problems
flyingpylon
Registered Users Posts: 260 Major grins
I received my first print from EZPrints today (as a test). I'm a bit disappointed, and I'm a little confused about what to do next.
For reference, here is the image I had printed as an 8x10 on lustre paper, no enhancement:
The problem with the print seems to be that the colors are WAY too saturated, and/or too warm.
I realize that many people prefer saturated prints, but the problem I'm having is that they are so saturated that they practically change the color of the car! To me, this car looks like it is light blue (I realize that it's hard to quantify "light blue"). But in the print, it comes out being much more of a royal blue. The red in the chassis is so saturated it looks like it was just painted (which was not the case in real life). The rusty guardrail in the background is far too red instead of being "rust" colored. And the track seems to be more yellow in the print than the original image.
I don't have a Colorvision Spyder or anything like that to calibrate my monitor, but I've done the best I can on my own and the calibration print looks reasonably close (though it too looks extremely saturated). I have also loaded the ezprints.icc profile and can soft proof the image in Photoshop 6.0. But I just can't come close to the colors I see in the print without really cranking up the saturation levels (and even then it still doesn't seem quite right).
I'm not sure what to do next. I don't like the thought of desaturating my images because I need them to look good online as well as when printed.
Does anyone have any suggestions or advice?
For reference, here is the image I had printed as an 8x10 on lustre paper, no enhancement:
The problem with the print seems to be that the colors are WAY too saturated, and/or too warm.
I realize that many people prefer saturated prints, but the problem I'm having is that they are so saturated that they practically change the color of the car! To me, this car looks like it is light blue (I realize that it's hard to quantify "light blue"). But in the print, it comes out being much more of a royal blue. The red in the chassis is so saturated it looks like it was just painted (which was not the case in real life). The rusty guardrail in the background is far too red instead of being "rust" colored. And the track seems to be more yellow in the print than the original image.
I don't have a Colorvision Spyder or anything like that to calibrate my monitor, but I've done the best I can on my own and the calibration print looks reasonably close (though it too looks extremely saturated). I have also loaded the ezprints.icc profile and can soft proof the image in Photoshop 6.0. But I just can't come close to the colors I see in the print without really cranking up the saturation levels (and even then it still doesn't seem quite right).
I'm not sure what to do next. I don't like the thought of desaturating my images because I need them to look good online as well as when printed.
Does anyone have any suggestions or advice?
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Comments
Nice shot!
Here is the best article on soft proofing I've seen:
http://hutchcolor.com/PDF/Soft_Proofing_tips6.pdf
By any chance are you using a Mac? Opinions of EZ prints vary from too washed out to too saturated with Mac users more frequently on the too saturated side because of its heritage of pre-press and a monitor gamma of 1.8.
BTW, I've been working on upgrading the calibration prints and here's the latest work in progress:
I'm going to add more skin tone shots and a gray scale, possibly a patch of grass and Ferrari logo and paint.
Thanks,
Baldy
By the way, I'm on a Mac, and I finally set my Gamma to the PC standard instead of the Mac standard, which, as Baldy pointed out, has a different legacy. Changing the gamma has helped, I believe in getting my monitor to be more representative of how my pictures will print. Also, since 90% of this world is on a Windoze PC, I want them to be impressed with my Mac work, right?
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The thing that really bugs me is that I can get a pretty darn good print from my Epson 870 without even trying. Of course the EZPrints print has certain advantages over an inkjet print, but the colors still need to be right.
The hard thing for me to deal with is the fact that it's not so much that the colors are "wrong", it's that the colors are just way oversaturated. Unless I am misunderstanding (entirely possible), I don't believe color management compensates for saturation, does it? If EZPrints would just turn down the saturation levels, everything would probably be fine.
I have come to believe that the critical thing is consistency. For every variable, you'll find passionate opinions on both sides but at least if you know what it is and can soft proof for it, which is the heart of color management, you can get good prints.
It's not really about monitor calibation, or ICC profiles
the prints *should* come out much more acceptable straight out of the camera than they do now. They are way too warm. I had the same post some time back (do a search on prints too warm or red, something like that).
The answer from SM was the same then: better to be consistent. (and I agree, but still very hesitant to order more prints from EZprints)
There was also promise of a filter to reduce the saturation/red level to more accpetable levels (apparently shutterfly does this behind the scene without giving the option?)
Consistency is wonderful, but lets be constintely good.
Edit: also, regarding soft proofing, that is not practical if you are uploading 100+ shots from an event per folder. I'm sure you'd agree that for that things should come out OK straight out of the camera. Nothing against spending a few minutes/hours soft proofing that one *critical* shot, or some of the wonderful art work people put up.
-PP
I know EZ Prints is investigating shifting their profiles to be somewhat less red than they are now, over the protests of portrait photographers who feel warm is more pleasing. If they do, it will be a huge thing because imagine the pros behind those 4,000,000 images per quarter they ship (or something like that) who like the color point just as it is.
If there is something we've learned during the time we've sent prints out to EZ Prints and Shutterfly (who used to be our supplier), there is no such thing as a color point that is right for every taste or camera. For example, many people who shoot with a 10D in the shade feel EZ Prints is too cold. The big complaint we got with Shutterfly was they were too yellow and asians seemed particularly sensitive to it.
With my 10D, I actually use the cloudy white balance setting even in direct sun to get better results, but I don't have to do that with my D60.
We planned to introduce a couple of filters that our customers can choose with the new shopping cart, but yesterday we put them on hold in an effort to get the new cart out sooner. We plan to make them available later.
We believe one of them will be popular for people who shoot with Canon portables and built-in flash, which seem to be quite red. It might be very cool to allow our pros to specify parameters in the filter, like some pro labs do for wedding photographers and film, and apply it to the photos they offer.
Thanks,
Baldy
agreed! the ordering does need an overhaul. Hope it happens soon, and looking forward to the other improvements to SM.
thanks. I'll be waiting until then...