Rebel XT woes...

DoctorIt

So I have my new XT in hand (thanks Patch), and I was all excited to post some photos from it... Instead I'm posting this:

I can't open the RAW files!!! I clicked on my "update" in PSCS and it sent me to their newest camera raw update, but it was marked for "CS2". I figured I'd try it. It only half works, file browser will now read the exif, but it still won't open - the plugin isn't supported.
:wxwax

Are they serious? I have to upgrade to CS2 in order to use the RAW files from my XT?!?

*I tried a search, but since I can't use "raw" or "XT" I came up with hundreds of threads with "rebel" in them.

Help? :uhoh

DoctorIt

Hey Erik!

Yeah?

I found your answer for you.

Cool!

Turns out, you can just use google to search for stuff on dgrin (since the dgrin search is kinda weak). I found this for you:
http://www.dgrin.com/archive/index.php/t-10941.html
And the answer is bad news, as you suspected.

Well that just stinks, now doesn't it?

Yeah.

wxwax

Well, I missed that the first time arond. Bummer.

JohnR

Have you tried that DNG converter?

JamesJWeg

FYI, you can google, or much better altavista any site by placeing "site:[sitename]" after what ever you want to search for. example:

jamesjweg site:www.dgrin.com

would return everything with jamesjweg in it on www.dgrin.com

James.

Andy

DoctorIt wrote:

So I have my new XT in hand (thanks Patch), and I was all excited to post some photos from it... Instead I'm posting this:

I can't open the RAW files!!! I clicked on my "update" in PSCS and it sent me to their newest camera raw update, but it was marked for "CS2". I figured I'd try it. It only half works, file browser will now read the exif, but it still won't open - the plugin isn't supported.


Are they serious? I have to upgrade to CS2 in order to use the RAW files from my XT?!?

*I tried a search, but since I can't use "raw" or "XT" I came up with hundreds of threads with "rebel" in them.

Help? :uhoh

the bastidges! so, what are you gonna do? i'd blame patch, if i were you.

burn him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:beatwax

david_h

DoctorIt wrote:

So I have my new XT in hand (thanks Patch), and I was all excited to post some photos from it... Instead I'm posting this:

I can't open the RAW files!!! I clicked on my "update" in PSCS and it sent me to their newest camera raw update, but it was marked for "CS2". I figured I'd try it. It only half works, file browser will now read the exif, but it still won't open - the plugin isn't supported.


Are they serious? I have to upgrade to CS2 in order to use the RAW files from my XT?!?

*I tried a search, but since I can't use "raw" or "XT" I came up with hundreds of threads with "rebel" in them.

Help? :uhoh

I remember reading that Adobe only provide ACR updates for the current version of Photoshop. Bummer if you get a new camera and want to stick with CS.

I'd get over to Pixmatec's site and get RawShooter Essentials for free. It's a much better raw converter than Adobe and your XT is on the list of supported cameras.

pathfinder

DoctorIt wrote:

So I have my new XT in hand (thanks Patch), and I was all excited to post some photos from it... Instead I'm posting this:

I can't open the RAW files!!! I clicked on my "update" in PSCS and it sent me to their newest camera raw update, but it was marked for "CS2". I figured I'd try it. It only half works, file browser will now read the exif, but it still won't open - the plugin isn't supported.


Are they serious? I have to upgrade to CS2 in order to use the RAW files from my XT?!?

*I tried a search, but since I can't use "raw" or "XT" I came up with hundreds of threads with "rebel" in them.

Help? :uhoh

Hey Erik - Did Canon not include a RAW viewer and converter software with the camera??? Digital Photo Pro or something??

When I go to B&H here and click on "includes"
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=371189&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

I find a CD-ROM listed with Digital Photo Pro included with the camera. Or did you buy yours in a back alley somewhere??

Andy

pathfinder wrote:

Or did you buy yours in a back alley somewhere??

burn him!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:beatwax

DoctorIt

pathfinder wrote:

Hey Erik - Did Canon not include a RAW viewer and converter software with the camera??? Digital Photo Pro or something??

When I go to B&H here and click on "includes"
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=371189&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

I find a CD-ROM listed with Digital Photo Pro included with the camera. Or did you buy yours in a back alley somewhere??

it was in a back alley, but Patch was nice enough to give me the CD too

BUT, I might as well use it as a coaster...

I don't think Canon likes MacOS very much either, because the installer (yeah, that was the first clue, it needs an installer) won't finish running so I can't get their digital-pro-whatever software to run!!!

DoctorIt

david_h wrote:

I remember reading that Adobe only provide ACR updates for the current version of Photoshop. Bummer if you get a new camera and want to stick with CS.

I'd get over to Pixmatec's site and get RawShooter Essentials for free. It's a much better raw converter than Adobe and your XT is on the list of supported cameras.

I'm really unhappy about having to go outside of photoshop, my workflow will be ugly, but if this alternative is good AND free, I'll check it out.

Rohirrim

As someone else already mentioned you could use Adobes DNG converter to convert the Rebels RAW images to DNG RAW images and then use the Adobe Camera RAW.

You wouldn't lose any image quality by doing this and would be able to use Adobes Camera RAW. The DNG files retain all EXIF information as well.

I have started doing this routinely with all my RAW images. I have even started deleting the CRW images and only keeping the DNG files. (Hopefully, this isn't a mistake).

Some more thoughts: http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/software/dng.shtml


Good luck,

howard

I don't know if the XT files are the same as the 20D but if they are try this http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=2701 it's for CS not CS2

Good luck

mercphoto

Yet another good reason to support the DNG format. A new camera comes out, and a person with Photoshop only one revision prior to the current one can't open the raw files?

Proprietary formats cause nothing but trouble.

DNG... DNG... DNG!

DoctorIt

howard wrote:

I don't know if the XT files are the same as the 20D but if they are try this http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=2701 it's for CS not CS2

Good luck

Nope, not the same. This was the first thing I tried, I even tried putting the CS2 updated Raw plugin (which didn't work at all).

GadgetGav

DoctorIt wrote:

I'm really unhappy about having to go outside of photoshop, my workflow will be ugly, but if this alternative is good AND free, I'll check it out.

Looks like pixmaNtec (not pixmatec) is Windows only so that's no help to MacOS people either...
I use the DRebel Canon software on MacOS. I think their pano merger is pretty good. It is an obvious port though with the way it installs and launches. Are you running Tiger..? Maybe they don't support that yet.
Kind of a crappy place to be though, if your OS is too new for manufacturer support, but your version of PS is too old for Adobe support. I'd blame (burn?) Adobe for only supporting the new, new version. I mean, how much work do you think they really need to do to support CS and CS2..?

Rohirrim

[Whispers in ear]
DNG.....DNG......DNG
[/Whispers in ear]

GadgetGav

Rohirrim wrote:

[Whispers in ear]
DNG.....DNG......DNG
[/Whispers in ear]

Yeah, but.... can we be sure that the same situation won't arise? I suppose all the while the DNG converter is free there's no reason not to have the latest one.

mercphoto

GadgetGav wrote:

Yeah, but.... can we be sure that the same situation won't arise? I suppose all the while the DNG converter is free there's no reason not to have the latest one.

No solution is perfect, but I see little downside with respect to DNG, and tons of problems with proprietary RAW formats. This latest example of the 350XT is prime.

Adobe is willing to throw DNG into the public domain. The standard is already open. What needs to happen now is either in-camera support for a converter, or a vendor-supplied converter. (i.e. Canon would bundle a 350XT to DNG converter, for example).

When that happens, all your digital photo viewers, all your editing software, all your asset management, etc, they all work and never need updating for the newest camera gear. When I buy a new DVD player, I don't have to worry if it works with my existing television.

DoctorIt

GadgetGav wrote:

Looks like pixmaNtec (not pixmatec) is Windows only so that's no help to MacOS people either...
I use the DRebel Canon software on MacOS. I think their pano merger is pretty good. It is an obvious port though with the way it installs and launches. Are you running Tiger..? Maybe they don't support that yet.
Kind of a crappy place to be though, if your OS is too mew for manufacturer support, but your version of PS is too old for Adobe support. I'd blame (burn?) Adobe for only supporting the new, new version. I mean, how much work do you think they really need to do to support CS and CS2..?

Pretty pathetic situation, isn't it?

DoctorIt

mercphoto wrote:

No solution is perfect, but I see little downside with respect to DNG, and tons of problems with proprietary RAW formats. This latest example of the 350XT is prime.

Adobe is willing to throw DNG into the public domain. The standard is already open. What needs to happen now is either in-camera support for a converter, or a vendor-supplied converter. (i.e. Canon would bundle a 350XT to DNG converter, for example).

When that happens, all your digital photo viewers, all your editing software, all your asset management, etc, they all work and never need updating for the newest camera gear. When I buy a new DVD player, I don't have to worry if it works with my existing television.

I agree with you totally. But I hate having an extra step, even if its the *right* one.

GadgetGav

mercphoto wrote:

When that happens, all your digital photo viewers, all your editing software, all your asset management, etc, they all work and never need updating for the newest camera gear. When I buy a new DVD player, I don't have to worry if it works with my existing television.

In that case, I doubt it will ever happen... Planned obsolesence is the only reason these companies are still around. You don't have to worry about DVD players yet, but already there are ones with HDMI connections which make a better picture on compatible TVs and soon there will be Blu-ray and HD-DVD competing.

arroyoshark

So...help a village idiot out here. Can one use the Canon supplied software with the Rebel xt to convert RAW images to tiff images, then successfully work with them in Photoshop CS or Photoshop Elements 3?

The Canon Rebel xt was a prime candidate for my uses, until this surfaced for me.

DoctorIt

arroyoshark wrote:

So...help a village idiot out here. Can one use the Canon supplied software with the Rebel xt to convert RAW images to tiff images, then successfully work with them in Photoshop CS or Photoshop Elements 3?

The Canon Rebel xt was a prime candidate for my uses, until this surfaced for me.

YES.

Supposedly, the Digital Photo Pro software that ships with the XT is actually pretty decent. However, I can't get it to install and run correctly on MacOS Tiger. PF said it, my OS is too new for my new camera, but my version of PS is too old. Just silly!

That being said, the XT is a super neat little camera. I'm liking it.

Rohirrim

arroyoshark wrote:

So...help a village idiot out here. Can one use the Canon supplied software with the Rebel xt to convert RAW images to tiff images, then successfully work with them in Photoshop CS or Photoshop Elements 3?

The Canon Rebel xt was a prime candidate for my uses, until this surfaced for me.

I may be wrong but there would be little advantage to changing Canon's RAW images into TIFF's to work in Photoshop. Unless you were using a thrid party RAW converter to get the full advantage of RAW then doing your final image editing in Photoshop. Which for those people that prefer Capture One etc. do routinely.

I'm sorry to keep harping on this but: You can take Canons propriety RAW images, convert them to the DNG RAW format and then use the DNG RAW images in Photoshops Camera RAW.

I don't know about Mac's but on the PC you can use Adobes FREE RAW Converter to convert the images directly from your CF Card and then start working on them right away.

Regards,

DoctorIt

Rohirrim wrote:

I may be wrong but there would be little advantage to changing Canon's RAW images into TIFF's to work in Photoshop. Unless you were using a thrid party RAW converter to get the full advantage of RAW then doing your final image editing in Photoshop. Which for those people that prefer Capture One etc. do routinely.

I'm sorry to keep harping on this but: You can take Canons propriety RAW images, convert them to the DNG RAW format and then use the DNG RAW images in Photoshops Camera RAW.

I don't know about Mac's but on the PC you can use Adobes FREE RAW Converter to convert the images directly from your CF Card and then start working on them right away.

Regards,

So let me get this straight... Adobe puts out a FREE converter that can read the new CR2 format from my XT and convert it to a DNG RAW, and this will work in CS. BUT, the RAW plugin itself can't read the new CR2 format???

Isn't that a little weird? Damn you Adobe!!!

Arrrrrgh mateys, now I don't feel so bad puttin on me pirate patch and going out on the hunt for some torrent files...

GadgetGav

DoctorIt wrote:

PF said it, my OS is too new for my new camera, but my version of PS is too old. Just silly!

Actually, that was me..!
I think the reason might be to push more people into using DNG. If they're going to keep the free DNG converters up to date and all the software that's already out there is compatible with DNG, then they can almost drop the direct RAW converters and make everyone go through DNG. Maybe that's the long term plan...

arroyoshark

Rohirrim wrote:

I may be wrong but there would be little advantage to changing Canon's RAW images into TIFF's to work in Photoshop. Unless you were using a thrid party RAW converter to get the full advantage of RAW then doing your final image editing in Photoshop. Which for those people that prefer Capture One etc. do routinely.

I'm sorry to keep harping on this but: You can take Canons propriety RAW images, convert them to the DNG RAW format and then use the DNG RAW images in Photoshops Camera RAW.

I don't know about Mac's but on the PC you can use Adobes FREE RAW Converter to convert the images directly from your CF Card and then start working on them right away.

Regards,

Harping can be good if the message is good. I went to your linky and it sounds like the DNG converter is a good way to go with the Rebel xt. I agree that either Adobe or CAnon is a stinker for making this more difficult, though.

I have been using Adobe Elements 3 to process JPEG images from my point & shoot, but I am enrolled in a Photoshop class for this fall. I want to start recording images in RAW format and the Rebel xt is in my "student" price range. In other words I have quite a bit to learn.

According to your link, the DNG converter will load onto a Mac, but it didn't mention anything about the Tiger OS. Thankfully, I was raised on the PC format.

Seems like the DNG converter adds another processing step, but may not be a big deal. Rohirrim, you seem knowledgeable about this, could you further explain your last statements about making conversion right from the CF card?

If you are using a single hard drive, I suppose one would just need to create a DNG directory for the converted RAW files on the PC hard drive...verdad?

DoctorIt

GadgetGav wrote:

Actually, that was me..!
I think the reason might be to push more people into using DNG. If they're going to keep the free DNG converters up to date and all the software that's already out there is compatible with DNG, then they can almost drop the direct RAW converters and make everyone go through DNG. Maybe that's the long term plan...

Oops, i scan too quick.

The DNG converter is on my list for things to try this evening. The reasoning is good, I like to support a more widespread format, so I'll go with the extra step and do this.

Rohirrim

IMO, we as photographers should all support the DNG Format. Adobe has made this format open source so anyone can use it. Leica and Hasslebad have agreed to support it (http://www.digitalcamerainfo.com/content/Leica-and-Hasselblad-Agree-to-Digital-Negative-Raw-Format.htm). Canon and Nikon are big hold outs right now. There is little reason not to support this. For more info please read this site: http://www.openraw.org/

Canon is really the culprit in the Rebel XT's case since they have opted not to support DNG.

arroyoshark wrote:

Seems like the DNG converter adds another processing step, but may not be a big deal. Rohirrim, you seem knowledgeable about this, could you further explain your last statements about making conversion right from the CF card?

I don't know if this is an intended use for the DNG converter, but it works for me on my PC with the Canon 20D.

1. Plug CF card in Card Reader (should work with camera as well)
2. Open the DNG Converter. The first time you run the converter you will have to choose the card as the source.
3. Choose a destination for the conversion. You can either keep the destination the same (ie My Pictures\New DNG's) or make a new directory by using the Converter.
4. Select Convert. This will convert your cameras RAW images to the DNG RAW image format.
5. Open ACR or your RAW reader of choice (as long as it supports DNG)
6. Enhance Images etc.
7. Put CF Card back in camera and format.
8. Take more pictures :, start back to step #1

This does not seem to take any longer to download the images from the card, but I havent timed it. All of your EXIF information will be saved.

Again I don't know if this will work on all Cameras/Cards/OS's and I don't know if there is any risk in losing images from the card, but I haven't had any problems yet.

I hope this makes sense. If you need more info I can take some screen shots and post those.

Regards and good luck,

DoctorIt

Got the DNG converter and used it as described above. Works fine on MacOS Tiger... definitely a slower way to transfer files, but at least it doesn't feel like I'm doing an extra step now.

Now if only I could get Patch's name off the owner field, I'd be a happy camper! I can't get the camera to connect to the computer with Canon's Camera Connect software, so I can't get in and edit that EXIF field. It only shows up on RAW files, but its there. So if you're viewing the exif on my smugmug photos anytime soon, they really are mine and not Patch's!!!