Yet another upgrader in need of some help

Davidoff

Continuing the line of thought in this thread :

http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?p=1363619#post1363619

I haven't purchased the camera yet, as I've been getting along with a borrowed one. Yesterday I saw a good deal on a D90 with not much use for 500€. I can get a new D300s for 1400€. I seldom shoot action, and though I appreciate all the features on the D300s, I still have a hard time justifiying the price difference, especially coming from a D70s and because of the fact that it still is a DX camera and rather old. Basically I have about 2000€ to invest. I could get a D700 but then I would only have a 50mm. Which is fine for most of the photography I like to do, but I really need a standard zoom for most of the paid assignments. Even the tamron 28-75 would be over my budget and it's the best standard zoom I can think of for less than 1000€ on DX. I could get a D300s and keep using the 18-70 until I can afford a 24-70. Or I could get the used D90 and get the 24-70 much sooner. The latter option is a big improvement over my D70s, camera-wise. Not to mention the lens, of course.

Keeping in mind that what I'd really like is a D700, the 24-70 and the 50mm and that both DX models would actually be a compromise, I'd like to hear your thoughts

Art Scott

personally I would get the most camera I can afford or push envelope a bit get the camera I really want.......find a used D700 and look into some used lenses as well.....I have used Sigma for over 25 yrs and never had a bad lens.....I love their 14-70f2.8 mine does not have any stabilization and sells new for a tad over $400usd........if you are getting camera work then go for the one you really want and deserve

Tamron also has the well spoken of 17-50 f2.8....I know nothing of Tamron so I do not know if the 17-50 is a ff or crop lens but have seen good words written about it on various forums..........

Good Luck

Davidoff

Art Scott wrote:

personally I would get the most camera I can afford or push envelope a bit get the camera I really want.......find a used D700 and look into some used lenses as well.....I have used Sigma for over 25 yrs and never had a bad lens.....I love their 14-70f2.8 mine does not have any stabilization and sells new for a tad over $400usd........if you are getting camera work then go for the one you really want and deserve

Tamron also has the well spoken of 17-50 f2.8....I know nothing of Tamron so I do not know if the 17-50 is a ff or crop lens but have seen good words written about it on various forums..........

Good Luck

Art, I get your point. But I think that the price difference between the D90 and the D300s is better invested elsewhere. I'm talking about the final image, not the whole experience. Wouldn't you say that a good lens would make more difference ? Even between the D700 and the D300s, the only improvements would be at higher iso's, which one doesn't always use.

The 17-50 is a dx lens, but the 28-75 is not. Even if I went for a used D700 and tamron standard zoom, I would be well over my budget, and unfortunately current assignments would neither pay nor benefit greatly from the camera difference, in my opinion.

Art Scott

between D90 and 300s yes....between 300s and D700 no....they have the same pixel count but the reason for the D700's superiority is the resolution......those pixels are not crammed into as small a space as they are on the 300s.............the reason a lot of cheaper lenses work on a crop camera is the fact that you're only using the center of the lens....the best part of any lens..........
Consider a D300 used they are getting less expensive all the time...I also do not like SD cards they are too small for me to handle especially in the winter when i amy have on gloves or if I am in a tree stand and the wind is blowing.........I like my Cf cards.....I believe the D70 uses cf cards also so if go with a D90 then you will have re-invest in memory cards......

Davidoff

Art Scott wrote:

between D90 and 300s yes....between 300s and D700 no....they have the same pixel count but the reason for the D700's superiority is the resolution......those pixels are not crammed into as small a space as they are on the 300s.............the reason a lot of cheaper lenses work on a crop camera is the fact that you're only using the center of the lens....the best part of any lens..........
Consider a D300 used they are getting less expensive all the time...I also do not like SD cards they are too small for me to handle especially in the winter when i amy have on gloves or if I am in a tree stand and the wind is blowing.........I like my Cf cards.....I believe the D70 uses cf cards also so if go with a D90 then you will have re-invest in memory cards......

Absolutely.
I can't really find used D300 in the market here. I know about the SD card issue, I guess I'd just have to buy a couple if I bought the D90. The problem is, if I buy the D700, I'd have to use " make do " lens for ages before I could buy the 24-70.

Qarik

I would get the d300s and save up for lens if you intend to make it more then a hobby. The sole factor for this is the auto-focus is system..

1) faster more accurate AF
2) 51 points with single point selection based off buttons instead of menu options

I think 2) is atually more important then 1). If you want to keep this at a hobby level then the the d90 is fine camera.

Davidoff

Qarik, do you think that, professionally, I'd be better served by a D300s and kit lens than by a D90 with the 24-70 ?

Qarik

Davidoff wrote:

Qarik, do you think that, professionally, I'd be better served by a D300s and kit lens than by a D90 with the 24-70 ?

If those were your only options then the d90 and 24-70mm for sure (I have owned/sold the d90). Image quality will be the same but keep rate on on d300s will be higher due to more robust AF and ability to single point focus on the eye is a snap for example.

In the long run though you will sell the d90 and eventually upgrade anyway I suspect. But that maybe the route to go if these are your choices.

I sold mine for funny reason..the scene modes. The d300,d200 don't have the thumbwheel for the scene modes. They have lock dial for P,M,A,S modes only. During a couple of shoots I would bump that scene mode dial on accident on the d90 and then wonder what the hell was going on for a minute. It's a wonderful camera but I just couldn't afford to have those kinds of slip ups with which the pro-bodies, you can't have.

Davidoff

It is my plan, yes. I plan on selling whatever I buy now and getting a d700 ( or successor ) when I can. The main point for the D90 is that I'd be able to get the lens I really want sooner. Plus, the used one I found is a decent deal.

edit: luckily, that never happened to me on the D70s

ziggy53

Davidoff wrote:

It is my plan, yes. I plan on selling whatever I buy now and getting a d700 ( or successor ) when I can. The main point for the D90 is that I'd be able to get the lens I really want sooner. Plus, the used one I found is a decent deal.

edit: luckily, that never happened to me on the D70s

The Nikon D90 is a significant improvement over the D70/D70s. If you can also purchase the Nikkor 24-70mm, f2.8 then you should be in a "much" better position than the singular improvement of camera alone that the D300S would allow.

The Nikkor 18-70mm, f3.5-4.5G ED-IF AF-S DX is a better than average consumer zoom and should serve nicely on the D90 as well.

Davidoff

I met with the seller of the D90. It's still under warranty. He had told me it had about 10000 shots ( I doubt he actually checked this out ), but just now I downloaded irfanview to look at one of the photos I took while testing it and I found the following information:



Should I let it pass ? Is 25000 too much for a used D90 ?

cab.in.boston

I would think that so long as the camera hasn't been abused, 25k isn't a reason not to buy it, assuming the price is good. I just bought a used D300 with 53k actuations, and don't have a second thought about it. I'd think that the shutter on that D90 has a long way to go.

Davidoff

I told him I was still interested. As I expected, he told me it had about 10k actuactions but he didn't really check that, probably doesn't know how. I'm curious though... how reliable is this system ? I ask this because he told me he bought a D700 a bit after he bought the D90, and recently sold it too. He said the D700 he sold had 11k, and that he had used the D700 far more often than the D90. How are you checking the number of shots from your cameras ?

cab.in.boston

Davidoff wrote: »

How are you checking the number of shots from your cameras ?

I had not done so until you posted the bit about irfanview, which I then downloaded and checked both of my cameras. The person who sold me the D300 said that there were 53,182 actuations, and that's pretty darn close to what I saw when I checked it after shooting around with it, so she must have
known what she was doing.

Then I checked my D90 b/c I was curious how many shots we've taken in the last ~13 months, and saw that we just hit 10k with it, and it still looks and acts brand new. I don't think I've seen ratings for shutter life on the D90 like I have on D300 and above bodies, but I would still think that you have a long way to go if that body has 25k on it. I'd bet that you'll be wanting to upgrade long before you mechanically wear that thing out.

Davidoff

He says it's not possible that it has so many actuations. Strangely, I did the math, and if it restarts at 9999, the file named 0530 could not be the 24955th actuation.
Either way, the D90 is tested to 100k, so I'm still buying it.

Ahah, believe me, if I could I would already be upgrading to a D700 :P

Icebear

Well, since you've already decided to go with the D90, my opinion won't help you much, , but I was going to advise you to do just that. I've owned and loved the D70, D200, D300, and used D700 and D90. I bought my daughter a D90 a year ago and we both love it. I shoot semi-professionally. I like the size and heft of the D300 over the D90, but I'm damned if I can see any real IQ difference in 90% of shooting situations. Spend your money on glass, and you'll be very happy with the D90. Just don't buy DX lenses.

I was ready earlier today to hit "send" on a new D700 but bugger-all, everybody's out of stock!

GadgetRick

Davidoff wrote: »

Qarik, do you think that, professionally, I'd be better served by a D300s and kit lens than by a D90 with the 24-70 ?

I absolutely do. I've used a D90 and, while it's an excellent camera, it's just not nearly a pro camera. What I mean is, access to various features just aren't as easy as it will be with the D300s.

Foques

I used a d90 right before I bought me a d300s..
No way in hell I will go down to d90 again.. I love my 300.. even though its not quite enough for me anymore, but thats a different story

I will be getting a 700 in a few months.

NikonsandVstroms

The used D90 really is your best bet for the long run, that and keep investing in FX compatible glass.

Davidoff

I got the D90. So far, I'm liking it.

ziggy53

Congratulations on the new camera.

Davidoff

Thanks Ziggy
I really wanted the better body, I've been spoilt by the school's 5D II's. That said, I've been satisfied with the D90. I haven't used it on a proper assignment yet but it's obviously much better than my D70s in every aspect ( except the annoying SD card and sync speed )