Cycling photo help

LadukebobLadukebob Registered Users Posts: 67 Big grins
edited May 4, 2010 in Sports
First time poster over here and looking for some technique help. I went out the other weekend to practice shooting a a bike race in the next town over. It was a stage race and I picked the Crit stage because the riders loop around a circuit multiple times. They pass by every couple minutes so I had lots of chances to practice panning. My goal for the day was to pan the riders and blur the background. I got the blurred background no problem! Didn't do so well on the riders though. I'm wondering what is the slowest shutter speed I should be using for something like this? I'm also limited on lenses but not sure that's the problem. Everything was shot at iso 200.

F20 @ 10mm 1/30
p318558469-5.jpg

F18 @ 85mm 1/80
p406814240-5.jpg

F18 @ 21mm 1/20
p391756268-5.jpg

And finally this photo where I was trying to freeze the action but still ended up with some blurring.

F5.6 @ 16mm 1/640
p76990423-5.jpg

Thanks for looking.
Nikon D90
18-105 mm
85 mm 1.8
10-20 mm
35 mm 1.8

kleinsmith.zenfolio.com

Comments

  • Wil DavisWil Davis Registered Users Posts: 1,692 Major grins
    edited May 1, 2010
    I particularly like #3 (two riders) - you've captured the essence of speed, and I like the composition!

    The last one freezes everything, so that there's little or no sense of movement, which doesn't do much for me.

    All the others are OK to a certain point, but #3 is best (IMNSHO), then #2, then #1…

    BTW - Welcome to DGPF!

    thumb.gif

    - Wil
    "…………………" - Marcel Marceau
  • rusticrustic Registered Users Posts: 199 Major grins
    edited May 1, 2010
    I don't have much experience with this, but to me it just looks like your shutter is just a bit too slow on both sets. It seems like 1/30 is just too slow to freeze the bikers (looking mainly at the feet) while panning, and 1/640 is too slow to freeze them when you're not panning.

    The 1/80 looks good for the guy on the left in the second one, so your shutter speed must have been pretty close to what you needed on the second one.

    Did you try any faster shutter speeds while panning?
    http://rustic.smugmug.com
  • LadukebobLadukebob Registered Users Posts: 67 Big grins
    edited May 2, 2010
    Thanks guys, I played around with different shutter speeds but non fast enough. It's funny, when the action started my brain kind of blanked out. The riders were completing the circuit every 90 seconds or so. There is another race in June and I will take what I have learned from this and get a plan together.
    Nikon D90
    18-105 mm
    85 mm 1.8
    10-20 mm
    35 mm 1.8

    kleinsmith.zenfolio.com
  • budman101budman101 Registered Users Posts: 158 Major grins
    edited May 3, 2010
    For the panning shots its just a matter of luck. I stopped trying to get it right. On a fast paced crit you should be able to get some panning blur at about 1/80-1/125. But for the low to the ground shots pre-focus on something and set the aperture to about F11. For the best shots position yourself a few feet past the apex of an inside turn. That way you get the rider as they are starting to put the hammer down.

    648489176_pnnpM-S-4.jpg

    A good day shooting bike races for me is about 30% keepers.
    www.joemallis.com
    "Most time its not the gear that makes the shot"
  • EnitsuguaEnitsugua Registered Users Posts: 186 Major grins
    edited May 3, 2010
    Ladukebob wrote: »
    First time poster over here and looking for some technique help. I went out the other weekend to practice shooting a a bike race in the next town over. It was a stage race and I picked the Crit stage because the riders loop around a circuit multiple times. They pass by every couple minutes so I had lots of chances to practice panning. My goal for the day was to pan the riders and blur the background. I got the blurred background no problem! Didn't do so well on the riders though. I'm wondering what is the slowest shutter speed I should be using for something like this? I'm also limited on lenses but not sure that's the problem. Everything was shot at iso 200.

    F20 @ 10mm 1/30

    F18 @ 85mm 1/80

    F18 @ 21mm 1/20

    And finally this photo where I was trying to freeze the action but still ended up with some blurring.

    F5.6 @ 16mm 1/640

    Thanks for looking.

    1/30, 1/60, even 1/15 should all work for panning. Your panning speed is pretty good overall. I think you have two other issues.

    You are getting up and down movement in your panning and not just side to side movement. You can see it in number 1 on the middle cyclist's tires, but it's even more noticeable on the roof edges of the buildings. Are you moving your body or just the camera? Panning should be a body movement from the waist. This is also a place you can use the VR on the lens to your advantage. VR and sports are usually not compatible. But with panning, turning ON the VR will help to remove this up and down motion.

    The second and last photo show the other problem. Focus. The second is focused on the rider on the far left of the image. 85mm at f18, but at what distance? Check a DOF calculator. You also see the focus problem clearly in the last photo. The focus is on the building in the background (see City Hall text and windows on the right side of the building). DOF doesn't go as far towards you. Plus 1/640 won't stop that action. Get up to 1/1000 or higher.
  • LadukebobLadukebob Registered Users Posts: 67 Big grins
    edited May 4, 2010
    Enitsugua wrote: »
    1/30, 1/60, even 1/15 should all work for panning. Your panning speed is pretty good overall. I think you have two other issues.

    You are getting up and down movement in your panning and not just side to side movement. You can see it in number 1 on the middle cyclist's tires, but it's even more noticeable on the roof edges of the buildings. Are you moving your body or just the camera? Panning should be a body movement from the waist. This is also a place you can use the VR on the lens to your advantage. VR and sports are usually not compatible. But with panning, turning ON the VR will help to remove this up and down motion.

    The second and last photo show the other problem. Focus. The second is focused on the rider on the far left of the image. 85mm at f18, but at what distance? Check a DOF calculator. You also see the focus problem clearly in the last photo. The focus is on the building in the background (see City Hall text and windows on the right side of the building). DOF doesn't go as far towards you. Plus 1/640 won't stop that action. Get up to 1/1000 or higher.

    Thanks, I believe you're right when you suggest my panning needs work. Next time out I'll try using my 18-105 VR and I'll work on rotating at the hips. I was picking one rider as a focal point and following as I was shooting Release Mode- Continuous low speed.

    As far as focus goes, I thought the same thing about the second photo until I checked the focus point in NX2 and it shows the focal point being on right knee of the rider in the center with the white shorts. Not sure how he is out of focus and the rider behind him is more in focus. Their speed would have be nearly the same at that point coming out of that corner. My conclusion is that it's poor panning.

    Thanks
    Nikon D90
    18-105 mm
    85 mm 1.8
    10-20 mm
    35 mm 1.8

    kleinsmith.zenfolio.com
  • EnitsuguaEnitsugua Registered Users Posts: 186 Major grins
    edited May 4, 2010
    Ladukebob wrote: »
    As far as focus goes, I thought the same thing about the second photo until I checked the focus point in NX2 and it shows the focal point being on right knee of the rider in the center with the white shorts. Not sure how he is out of focus and the rider behind him is more in focus. Their speed would have be nearly the same at that point coming out of that corner. My conclusion is that it's poor panning.

    Or focus calibration issues between the body and the lens. Ever looked at the combo with LensAlign or even a simple 45 degree paper ruler?
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