Improving cycle time on 580 exII flash

studio1972

I am having problems sometimes with this flash, especially using high speed sync, where the cycle time can be quite a few seconds, which is frustrating. I use standard alkaline batteries in it.

Just wondering if i should try lithium batteries, of if it would be worth getting a Quantum battery pack, or if there are any other alternatives?

aktse

studio1972 wrote: »

I am having problems sometimes with this flash, especially using high speed sync, where the cycle time can be quite a few seconds, which is frustrating. I use standard alkaline batteries in it.

Just wondering if i should try lithium batteries, of if it would be worth getting a Quantum battery pack, or if there are any other alternatives?

In a nutshell, high speed sync uses more juice because basically changes the way the flash fires. Instead of one big pulse of light, the speedlite sends out lower power, pulses and the output power is reduced.

Syl Arena, (pixsylated, speedliting,) is currently doing some experiments on batteries by doing a battery torture test.

He's still in the middle of his battery experiment, but I dont' know when he'll be done, but he has done enough to tell folks to avoid lithium batteries. They get *really* hot -- hot enough to melt the flash plastics and his flash is probably over heating and shutting down. He'll probably ruin his shutter of his 5d before he's done with the experiments...

For you, the batteries pack will help with your recycle times. However, get the canon one and not a third party one. Everything that I've read and everyone that I spoke with has stated for batteries packs and flashes, get the real thing because you don't want the flash to over heat.

PhotoLasVegas

We use 2 Al Jacobs "Black Box" batteries (actually 1 box powers TWO 580exIIs for about 1200-1500 ETTL fires).

The flashes barely get warm even when we "go crazy" and shoot really fast. Cycle time is almost non-existant.

pth

For me nice high capacity NiMH AA rechargeable sets work well. An external pack will probably work better, but for the money cheap rechargeables are great. Don't worry about the voltage, the important thing is their [grammer edit] ability to discharge rapidly -- look for a set with a high mAh rating 2500+ should cost less than $15 for four, maybe $30 with a charger.

ziggy53

I'm using a unit similar to the Canon CP-E4 external battery pack. I use the Janco External Flash Battery Pack, model JJC FB-1. Like the Canon unit this is an external high-voltage power supply, which means that it uses 8 - AA batteries and then it's own high-voltage circuits to supply power to the Canon 580 EX/580 EX II for the charging circuits of the flash. You still need the usual 4 - AA batteries in the flash to power the control circuits of the flash. This is supposed to almost triple the number of flashes before changing battery sets but I have not tested to depletion yet.

I'm getting less than 2 second charges for full pop cycle times, and nearly instantaneous recycling times in normal use.

I use NiMH rechargeable batteries of around 2500 mAh and I do not recommend the larger capacity batteries because they are either:

1) Larger diameter and do not fit appliances as well.

... or ...

2) Thinner electrodes that do not hold up to as many charge/recharge cycles or which do not carry as much current.

I have not experienced any overheating or unusual operation with the Janco device, compared to what some folks are experiencing with other less quality devices. Altogether I am very happy with the power supply and I would buy another.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0031KPS62/ref=oss_product

pyry

ziggy53 wrote: »

I have not experienced any overheating or unusual operation with the Janco device, compared to what some folks are experiencing with other less quality devices. Altogether I am very happy with the power supply and I would buy another.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0031KPS62/ref=oss_product

Thanks for the link! Too bad they don't show a price, because it's out of stock. Edit: amazon.co.uk has 'em listed for £60.

I would second the warning about overheating speedlites with the external packs. It's not a problem if you give it a while to cool off ever so often, but continuous high rates on high powers can fry the flash. They are meant to do a few fast pops and then cool while the setup or poses are changed.

GadgetRick

pyry wrote: »

Thanks for the link! Too bad they don't show a price, because it's out of stock. Edit: amazon.co.uk has 'em listed for £60.

I would second the warning about overheating speedlites with the external packs. It's not a problem if you give it a while to cool off ever so often, but continuous high rates on high powers can fry the flash. They are meant to do a few fast pops and then cool while the setup or poses are changed.

Right, to take it a step further, from what I've read, the 3rd party battery packs bypass the overheat protection in the flash so the flash will happily fire away as until it melts into a mass of goey plastic. :yikes

JohnBiggs

NIMH do cycle faster than alkalines. They will also save you money. I recommend the low discharge NIMH so the batteries will retain a charge when not used.

I buy the Kodak Pre-charged NIMH. However SANYO Enloops are the other popular brand. THe kodaks are just cheaper and easier to find. Just make sure they say pre-charged. Those are the low discharge.

John

pyry

GadgetRick wrote: »

Right, to take it a step further, from what I've read, the 3rd party battery packs bypass the overheat protection in the flash so the flash will happily fire away as until it melts into a mass of goey plastic. :yikes

Many flashes don't have overheat protection, SB-900 being the one exception I know of. That isn't a problem with just the 4 AA's because they can't pump enough energy through the flash to overheat it. External battery packs can though, especially with a gel fitted right up against the lens.

JohnBiggs

pyry wrote: »

Many flashes don't have overheat protection, SB-900 being the one exception I know of. That isn't a problem with just the 4 AA's because they can't pump enough energy through the flash to overheat it. External battery packs can though, especially with a gel fitted right up against the lens.

From: http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/tech/report/200708/200708.html

For the 580EXII

(7) Safety mechanism prevents flash-head overheating
With the move to digital, there are many more opportunities to fire the flash repeatedly in a short time since the number of shots one can take is virtually unlimited, unlike in the old film days.
Repeatedly firing the flash, however, runs the risk of damaging the flash head and surrounding components because the flash head heats up quite quickly. For this reason, the instruction manual warns that the flash unit must rest for at least 10 minutes after firing 20 or more flashes in a row. Nevertheless, we have had reports that in practice photographers often use their flash units beyond these limits.
Thus, we were obliged to equip the 580EX II with a safety mechanism to prevent flash-head overheating. The mechanism engages when the benchmarks below are exceeded and, once in effect, forces the unit to wait eight to 20 seconds between flashes.

· 60 consecutive full flashes while running on the internal power supply
· 40 consecutive full flashes while running on the CP-E4 external battery pack

Once the safety mechanism is engaged, it remains in effect until the flash is not fired for about 15 minutes. The unit then returns to its normal flash ready state.

pyry

JohnBiggs wrote: »

From: http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/tech/report/200708/200708.html

For the 580EXII

Once the safety mechanism is engaged, it remains in effect until the flash is not fired for about 15 minutes. The unit then returns to its normal flash ready state.

Allright, so newer models from both Canon and Nikon have temperature protection. Good to know, thanks!

Too bad mine are 550EX and 540EZ, cause I'm looking at those battery packs...

pyry

ziggy53 wrote: »

I'm using a unit similar to the Canon CP-E4 external battery pack. I use the Janco External Flash Battery Pack, model JJC FB-1. Like the Canon unit this is an external high-voltage power supply

Do you know if the pack is just a battery holder or does it output higher voltages? Guessing the latter..

ziggy53

pyry wrote: »

Do you know if the pack is just a battery holder or does it output higher voltages? Guessing the latter..

On the Janco you can hear the "whine" of the circuits as they pump up the voltage to power the charging circuits of the flash. Nothing objectionable, in fact I find the sound reassuring. The flash itself no longer makes any sound since the high voltage is coming from the Janco power source.

I have not detected any overheating of the 580EX in my normal use of the flash, which is rather fast shooting occasionally but with ISO 800-1600 I rarely do full pop discharges. I use the unit mostly to allow longer shooting sequences without worrying about changing the batteries.

pyry

ziggy53 wrote: »

On the Janco you can hear the "whine" of the circuits as they pump up the voltage to power the charging circuits of the flash. Nothing objectionable, in fact I find the sound reassuring. The flash itself no longer makes any sound since the high voltage is coming from the Janco power source.

I have not detected any overheating of the 580EX in my normal use of the flash, which is rather fast shooting occasionally but with ISO 800-1600 I rarely do full pop discharges. I use the unit mostly to allow longer shooting sequences without worrying about changing the batteries.

Thanks, Ziggy

I found the same JJC fb-1 units for $40 on Dealextreme. I'll probably have get a few more sets of Eneloops too...

GadgetRick

ziggy53 wrote: »

On the Janco you can hear the "whine" of the circuits as they pump up the voltage to power the charging circuits of the flash. Nothing objectionable, in fact I find the sound reassuring. The flash itself no longer makes any sound since the high voltage is coming from the Janco power source.

I have not detected any overheating of the 580EX in my normal use of the flash, which is rather fast shooting occasionally but with ISO 800-1600 I rarely do full pop discharges. I use the unit mostly to allow longer shooting sequences without worrying about changing the batteries.

Can't seem to find that battery pack you posted earlier. Would like to look into it and maybe give it a shot.

studio1972

Thanks for the advice everybody. I ended up getting a Yongnuo SF-18 Battery pack, which seems to be very similar to the Canon one and to the Janco. It seems well made and was only £47.90 inc delivery from Amazon. The recharge time is much faster nowand it clips nicely to a belt or camera strap etc. and has a stretchy cord so it's not very cumbersome at all. Maybe in future Canon will bring out a flash that runs on LIon rechargables which might be better, but this will do fine for now.