D300 vs. D300s

cab.in.boston · May 4, 2010

I have a D90 and lust after a D300s (mostly for ergonomics - the D90 is a little small in my hands). I have an opportunity to purchase a used D300 for a good price. Assuming that the camera is in good shape (I haven't actually seen it yet), is there any compelling reason to hold off on the D300 in favor of waiting/saving up for a D300s? I do not care about the video function, so basically I'm wondering if anything else was significantly upgraded with the 's' version.

GadgetRick · May 4, 2010

From what I've read the D300s is better-suited for sports photography and high-iso shooting. I'm sure there is more but that's all I can think of right now.

ziggy53 · May 4, 2010

From DPReview, D3S improvements:

"'Quiet' shutter release mode (first seen in the D5000), in-camera dust reduction, and a choice of four image area formats, including DX, and a new 1.2x crop option. The D3S offers the same resolution as the D3, at 12 million pixels, but its redesigned sensor can hit new heights of ISO performance, offering a 'native' range of ISO 200-12,800, expandable up to ISO 102,400."

cab.in.boston · May 4, 2010

GadgetRick wrote: »

From what I've read the D300s is better-suited for sports photography and high-iso shooting. I'm sure there is more but that's all I can think of right now.

Thanks for the reply. From what I can see, they have the same ISO range, and the same AF mechanism (CAM3500DX). I emailed Thom Hogan about it, and he just responded with what I basically thought he would say:

"[FONT=Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]They are exactly the same in image quality. Thus once you ignore the movie capability, about the only differences are the extra card slot and the change in the INFO button."

Seems like I might be silly to pass up the opportunity, especially since I'm just a hobbyist and not trying to make a living with this or anything...
[/FONT]

cab.in.boston · May 4, 2010

ziggy53 wrote: »

From DPReview, D3S improvements:

"'Quiet' shutter release mode (first seen in the D5000), in-camera dust reduction, and a choice of four image area formats, including DX, and a new 1.2x crop option. The D3S offers the same resolution as the D3, at 12 million pixels, but its redesigned sensor can hit new heights of ISO performance, offering a 'native' range of ISO 200-12,800, expandable up to ISO 102,400."

Yes, that would be neat, Ziggy... but a D3s is a couple orders of magnitude out of my price range. I'm looking at a D300/s.

Foques · May 4, 2010

D300s shoots HD movies (720 DPI)
D300s shoots 7 FPS in Ch mode (Nikon D300 is 6 FPS). With MB-D10 battery pack, it will shoot 8 FPS.
A new release mode "Q" (quiet shutter-release)
Dual card slots - (CompactFlash and SD (SDHC-compliant) cards.)
Active D-Lighting now has "Auto", they also added an "Extra High" high option.
Nikon D300s is wee bit heavier than the D300.
Nikon D300s has a dedicated "Lv" (LiveView) and "Info" buttons
Nikon D300s has a virtual horizon

aside from that, it is the same camera..
correct me if I'm wrong.

ziggy53 · May 4, 2010

cab.in.boston wrote: »

Yes, that would be neat, Ziggy... but a D3s is a couple orders of magnitude out of my price range. I'm looking at a D300/s.

Ooops, I was trying to upgrade you (I guess).

D

On the other hand, GadgetRick and Foques are giving good advice.

GadgetRick · May 4, 2010

cab.in.boston wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. From what I can see, they have the same ISO range, and the same AF mechanism (CAM3500DX). I emailed Thom Hogan about it, and he just responded with what I basically thought he would say:

"[FONT=Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]They are exactly the same in image quality. Thus once you ignore the movie capability, about the only differences are the extra card slot and the change in the INFO button."

Seems like I might be silly to pass up the opportunity, especially since I'm just a hobbyist and not trying to make a living with this or anything...
[/FONT]

The D300s definately does much better with high-iso than a D300. I've read plenty and seen plenty of examples to support that. Not saying the D300 does a bad job, just saying the 300s is better at it.

I also know there are other differences than just the movie capability.

I've moved from Nikon to Canon and don't remember all of the particulars about the Nikons.

cab.in.boston · May 4, 2010

GadgetRick wrote: »

The D300s definately does much better with high-iso than a D300. I've read plenty and seen plenty of examples to support that. Not saying the D300 does a bad job, just saying the 300s is better at it.

Hmm. Well, this is the first I've heard about this. AFAIK, the two use the same sensor, and I've not heard of any sensor tweaks when they went to the D300s. Either way, I doubt that a D300 is significantly worse than my D90, and I really don't shoot at high ISO anyway. I try to keep it under 800 unless absolutely necessary. That doesn't seem like a deal breaker by any means.

Foques wrote:

D300s shoots HD movies (720 DPI)

D300s shoots 7 FPS in Ch mode (Nikon D300 is 6 FPS). With MB-D10 battery pack, it will shoot 8 FPS.

A new release mode "Q" (quiet shutter-release)

Dual card slots - (CompactFlash and SD (SDHC-compliant) cards.)

Active D-Lighting now has "Auto", they also added an "Extra High" high option.

Nikon D300s is wee bit heavier than the D300.

Nikon D300s has a dedicated "Lv" (LiveView) and "Info" buttons

Nikon D300s has a virtual horizon

Thanks for the input! As far as these go:
1) Doesn't bother me at all to not have video. In a bit over a year with my D90, I have yet to record minute 1 of video, so that's really not a concern.
2) Both are a higher frame rates than my D90, and I don't really use continuous high speed mode. I also plan to get the grip, and both bodies go 8 fps with that, so that's moot.
3-5) All would be neat, but I can't see those as deal breakers.
6) Weight is not a problem. I've briefly used both bodies, and they both felt good in my hands.
7) Would be nice, although I really haven't learned how to use LV. I've tried using it to focus, and think that's a good technique for landscapes, but having the dedicated button isn't all that important, I don't think.
8) That sounds cool, but again, probably not a deal breaker. I can use a bubble level.

All in all, it seems as I figured. The D300 is a fine camera, and the D300s is a little more fine. I just don't think it's $1000 more fine.

Thanks for the input!

angevin1 · May 4, 2010

cab.in.boston wrote: »

Hmm. Well, this is the first I've heard about this. AFAIK, the two use the same sensor, and I've not heard of any sensor tweaks when they went to the D300s. Either way, I doubt that a D300 is significantly worse than my D90, and I really don't shoot at high ISO anyway. I try to keep it under 800 unless absolutely necessary. That doesn't seem like a deal breaker by any means.

Thanks for the input! As far as these go:
1) Doesn't bother me at all to not have video. In a bit over a year with my D90, I have yet to record minute 1 of video, so that's really not a concern.
2) Both are a higher frame rates than my D90, and I don't really use continuous high speed mode. I also plan to get the grip, and both bodies go 8 fps with that, so that's moot.
3-5) All would be neat, but I can't see those as deal breakers.
6) Weight is not a problem. I've briefly used both bodies, and they both felt good in my hands.
7) Would be nice, although I really haven't learned how to use LV. I've tried using it to focus, and think that's a good technique for landscapes, but having the dedicated button isn't all that important, I don't think.
8) That sounds cool, but again, probably not a deal breaker. I can use a bubble level.

All in all, it seems as I figured. The D300 is a fine camera, and the D300s is a little more fine. I just don't think it's $1000 more fine.

Thanks for the input!

I've had/have both....The D90 is a neat as heck camera, but like you mention, it is a wee bit smallish~

Other than that....I actually think the IQ of the camera is a bit better than the D300...Can't say for sure what it is, but I wasn't that impressed with it....However it does offer things that the D90 does not, and most of what it offer's is pointing towards someone that has more pro-ish needs, higher shutter/flash sync comes to mind, weather sealing. And it uses a CF card. Don't know if you use Lv but if you do, you'll miss that button!

So move on up if you need or want to, but don't be surprised if you miss the D90 provided you sell it~

Foques · May 4, 2010

I really didn't care about the #4 when I got the S model..boy, am I happy I did.

You can use the secondary slot as either backup, or an extension, or carrier of a different format.
very very handy.

cab.in.boston · May 4, 2010

angevin1 wrote: »

I've had/have both....The D90 is a neat as heck camera, but like you mention, it is a wee bit smallish~

Other than that....I actually think the IQ of the camera is a bit better than the D300...Can't say for sure what it is, but I wasn't that impressed with it....However it does offer things that the D90 does not, and most of what it offer's is pointing towards someone that has more pro-ish needs, higher shutter/flash sync comes to mind, weather sealing. And it uses a CF card. Don't know if you use Lv but if you do, you'll miss that button!

So move on up if you need or want to, but don't be surprised if you miss the D90 provided you sell it~

I have heard some say that the D90 may actually have better IQ than the D300. I don't think it's going to bother me, though. I seriously doubt that I would even be able to tell the difference. I've seen amazing work from both the D90 and the D300. For me, the difference in functionality and ergonomics makes the D300 or D300s a better fit, I think.

Don't worry, I won't be getting rid of the D90. That will remain in the house and become primarily my wife's camera. The reason we got a nice DSLR in the first place was primarily to photograph our kids, secondarily for me to play. So getting the D300 will be so I will be able to have "my own" camera that I can carry with me, and it will also let us take both when desired so we can have a dual body setup.

Foques wrote: »

I really didn't care about the #4 when I got the S model..boy, am I happy I did.

You can use the secondary slot as either backup, or an extension, or carrier of a different format.
very very handy.

Yes, I totally understand the appeal of that second slot, and all else being equal I would go for it. But I just don't think it's worth spending the extra $1k for a new D300s vs. a used-in-great-shape D300 just to get the incremental differences, know what I mean?

angevin1 · May 4, 2010

cab.in.boston wrote: »

Don't worry, I won't be getting rid of the D90. That will remain in the house and become primarily my wife's camera.

Same here, My GF loves the D90!

cab.in.boston · May 5, 2010

So, the D300 is 2 years old, has about 52k actuations... Doing the math, that's ~500/week, which to me seems like fairly heavy use, but for someone using it professionally, probably not terribly heavy? The shutter is rated for 150k. I think that even getting it to 100k would take me quite a few years. We probably have quite a bit less than 10k on our D90, which we've had for about 13-14 months. I hope to increase my photo activity, but I still think the shutter life would be more than enough for a few years in my hands.

The seller recommends getting it professionally cleaned by Nikon or another camera shop, saying that it's in good shape but that after 2 yrs of use, it could use some TLC. She says she priced it with that in mind.

A local Nikon-authorized repair shop told me over the phone that to do a cleaning, computer diagnostic, and basic visual inspection would cost about $98.

I have seen another D300 and 17-55 f/2.8 Nikkor that this same seller recently sold to a friend of mine (the seller is moving from DX to FX), and that gear was in very good shape. Great mechanically with some very minor cosmetic blemishes. No big deal, IMO.

So I would be paying $650 for the camera + ~$100 for the cleaning/checkup. I've looked on eBay and the classifieds here, and that seems like a good price to me, even considering the shutter count. Am I off base? Is that way too high? Would you buy a body with shutter count of 52k from someone who has used it for wedding/portrait use? Keep in mind that I would be using it for hobby purposes only, not subjecting it to anywhere near as rough a life as it may (probably) already have experienced.

I am meeting with the seller later today to inspect the camera. I told her that I would not be buying it today, I just need to see it so that my wife and I can make a more informed decision.

Any thoughts?

angevin1 · May 5, 2010

cab.in.boston wrote: »

The seller recommends getting it professionally cleaned by Nikon or another camera shop, saying that it's in good shape but that after 2 yrs of use, it could use some TLC. She says she priced it with that in mind.

A local Nikon-authorized repair shop told me over the phone that to do a cleaning, computer diagnostic, and basic visual inspection would cost about $98.

So I would be paying $650 for the camera + ~$100 for the cleaning/checkup. I've looked on eBay and the classifieds here, and that seems like a good price to me, even considering the shutter count. Am I off base? Is that way too high?
Any thoughts?

I don't think it's too high, and the bonus is, you've seen the gear she's sold before. Like you said, prob take you a lifetime to shoot 100k more images...or at least a few years. Of course, the shutter could fail, and all that, but personally, as someone who's D300 failed in twenty minutes after opening the NEW box, used, and well used but not over used is a good deal!

Sounds good to me. Looking at it will hardly tell you much about it's performance. but the fact that it has 52k shutter actuation's tells you She liked it and used it!

Good Luck~

cab.in.boston · May 5, 2010

angevin1 wrote: »

Looking at it will hardly tell you much about it's performance. but the fact that it has 52k shutter actuation's tells you She liked it and used it!

Good Luck~

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I've never bought used gear before, and I'm a little nervous about it. I think I'd rather buy a used lens than a body. Even though there are electronics in a lens, it just seems like there is more that could go wrong in a body than a lens... And while I know $750 isn't big money when talking photo gear, it's still a decent chunk for me to spend on something. The seller is a good friend-of-a-friend, but I don't know her personally, so it's causing a little anxiety.

I know that looking at it won't tell me all there is to know, but it will at least give me a feel for whether the use has worn anything down mechanically, and I can sort of give myself warm fuzzies that the camera really is real and at least works, you know? She has also said it has a scratch or two, so I just want to make sure that it's in good enough condition for me.

Thanks again for the encouragement.

GadgetRick · May 6, 2010

cab.in.boston wrote: »

Hmm. Well, this is the first I've heard about this. AFAIK, the two use the same sensor, and I've not heard of any sensor tweaks when they went to the D300s. Either way, I doubt that a D300 is significantly worse than my D90, and I really don't shoot at high ISO anyway. I try to keep it under 800 unless absolutely necessary. That doesn't seem like a deal breaker by any means.

I just looked for a comparison I had read a few months back but, of course, can't find it. They had done a bit of a shootout during an indoor soccer game with a D300 and a D300s.

Anyway, I had the use of a D90 for a few weeks before I switched from Nikon. If you're never going over ISO 800 on it, you're missing out. The D90 absolutely can shoot much higher than that with no problems. My guess is the D300 or D300s is gonna do just about as well in that area.

I don't know about the IQ being better (or worse) than a D90. I know I got some pretty nice stuff from the D90 when I used it though.

I don't think you'll go wrong with either though.

cab.in.boston · May 6, 2010

The D300 has landed.

Just picked it up this morning. It's in great shape so far as I can tell. I will be sending it in to Nikon service for a cleaning, but to the naked eye, it is just fine. There are a couple of marks on either side that look like they're from a bit of rubbing from the straps, but they're just cosmetic.

Happy Graduation gift to me!

ziggy53 · May 6, 2010

cab.in.boston wrote: »

Just picked it up this morning. It's in great shape so far as I can tell. I will be sending it in to Nikon service for a cleaning, but to the naked eye, it is just fine. There are a couple of marks on either side that look like they're from a bit of rubbing from the straps, but they're just cosmetic.

Happy Graduation gift to me!

Congratulations on the new (to you) camera.

GadgetRick · May 6, 2010

Enjoy the new camera! Always fun to get a new toy!

Dan7312 · May 6, 2010

Enjoy your new camera!

cab.in.boston wrote: »

Just picked it up this morning. It's in great shape so far as I can tell. I will be sending it in to Nikon service for a cleaning, but to the naked eye, it is just fine. There are a couple of marks on either side that look like they're from a bit of rubbing from the straps, but they're just cosmetic.

Happy Graduation gift to me!

cab.in.boston · May 7, 2010

Thanks, everyone. Got a chance to play around with it last night after work. I know I'm going to be very happy with it. While there are similarities to my D90, there are a ton of differences, and it's going to take a while to get used to all I can do with it.

Funny thing is that the only CF card that I own is from my first digital P&S, a whopping 256MB purchased about 8-9 years back. When I put it in the D300, it tells me I have room for something like 7 RAW images, and it's unbelievably slow. It probably took 6-8 seconds to finish writing to the card. I ordered a new 8GB card yesterday, I just hope that Adorama is as fast as they usually are!

edit: Adorama rocks, as usual! I put in the order yesterday afternoon, and by 10:30pm, the shipper had already received the package to get it out to me. Awesome!

Dan, it looks like this will put a bit of a delay on my plans to upgrade my tripod... maybe that will be a Xmas or b-day present for me this year. It's definitely next on my list.

D300 vs. D300s

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