Advice on Red Kite Shots

canon400d

I have been invited to take some shots of Red Kites at feeding time at a location in South West Scotland near to where I live.
I use a 40D and I have various lenses as you will see. I haven't taken any wildlife shots for a while as I have been busy with motor sports. However, I don't want to miss this opportunity and If anyone can please advise me to which lens I should use. I normally shoot manual and always Raw. But if anyone can advise me to settings etc I would really appreciate it, and I will hopefully show my results in this Forum for C & C which I always appreciate.
Kind regards
Bob

Harryb

Bob,

There is no magic formula here. The lens would depend on how close you can bet to your subject. Normally I would go with the 50-500. Most of the pros I've worked with recommend aperture priority with exposure adjustments.

canon400d

Harryb wrote: »

Bob,

There is no magic formula here. The lens would depend on how close you can bet to your subject. Normally I would go with the 50-500. Most of the pros I've worked with recommend aperture priority with exposure adjustments.

Thanks ever so much for that Harry will certainly try that.
Regards
Bob

Ric Grupe

If you are shooting "in flight" shots...I would set the AF to "AI Servo" and of course use high frame rate.

I have used a 40D extensively for flight shots. Stop down one stop (ie...f/4 lens f5.6 A setting) and always use aperture priority. If your lens has a focus limiter switch use the far setting.

As Harry said there is no secret formula...this has worked for me. Good luck.

If you have a lot of light use the Bigma...if you can get close enough the 70-200 may be a better choice.

Giphsub

I'm interested to know why aperture priority? I always thought a faster shutter speed was the main thing. Ric, why stop down a stop? Is that just to get closer to the sweet spot of the lens?

Harryb

Giphsub wrote: »

I'm interested to know why aperture priority? I always thought a faster shutter speed was the main thing. Ric, why stop down a stop? Is that just to get closer to the sweet spot of the lens?

I prefer aperture priority because it has more affect on how the final capture will look. If the shutter speed is too slow then I adjust the ISO setting or the aperture setting. Once you get used to it its very intuitive and its easy to make the quick adjustments wildife photography requires.

Ric Grupe

Giphsub wrote: »

I'm interested to know why aperture priority? I always thought a faster shutter speed was the main thing. Ric, why stop down a stop? Is that just to get closer to the sweet spot of the lens?

Harry covered most of this...I agree.

A little more depth of field gives you some room for quick movement and getting what you want in focus...in focus. Plus a little sharper image.

Giphsub

OK. So the extra depth is preferable to the faster shutter speed. Of course, as I don't have a super fast prime lens (I have the 300mm f4) then the available light will affect the degree to which I can do this.

canon400d

Giphsub wrote: »

OK. So the extra depth is preferable to the faster shutter speed. Of course, as I don't have a super fast prime lens (I have the 300mm f4) then the available light will affect the degree to which I can do this.

These are a few shots of the Red Kites. I was really disappointed. The light was rather dull and I used my 40D with 50-500. I used AV and the lowest F stop 6.3 with a shutter speed of around 2000 and 2500 and ISO at 400. Alsalvo in continuous. I took hundreds of shots but they all came out too dark. I only wish they had turned out as well as the shot I took of the old farm dog.
I have been told this lens likes plenty of light and I maybe should have used my 70-200 F4L lens. I have been told I can return at any time I want to take more shots of them which I think I will but I hope they turn out much better than these ones. Thanks once again for all your kind advice which I truly appreciate.
Regards
Bob
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Ric Grupe

Sorry about that, Bob.

Lesson learned though...did you dial in some positive exposure compensation? Watch the histogram...you could even blow out the sky...as long as the bird comes out right.

canon400d

Ric Grupe wrote: »

Sorry about that, Bob.

Lesson learned though...did you dial in some positive exposure compensation? Watch the histogram...you could even blow out the sky...as long as the bird comes out right.

Yes Ric I tried but I didn't have any success. There were over a hundred Kites being fed. They really were so fast ducking and diving I had difficulty getting a quick focus at times so in the end I used manual focus. Over a period of time that 50-500 is such a weight believe me as the birds were almost overhead.
Regards
Bob

Giphsub

Bob, I used the bigma for quite some time. I came to the conclusion that I could rarely go above shutter speeds of about 1500, and that was even pushing it. I got some decent shots of black kites flying, but not too many stunners with that lens. It tracks a little slowly, and as you say is hard to whip around constantly due to its weight. My only advice with that lens would be to pull it back to about 400mm and drop the shutter speed down as far as you dare. Here are some results I got from the Bigma:

f6.3 1/1250 iso 1400


f6.3 1/1000 iso1250


f6.3 1/1000 iso400


As you can see, each of these had a much slower shutter speed than you were using, and the iso was quite high on the first two. If it was a dark day, like you said, you would have difficulty getting good shots that are not too dark at those speeds. The bigma can produce very good results, but the ratio of keepers to no. of shots taken is quite low. Also, for these shots I was using shutter priority and exposure compensation (EV) of around +1, leaving the camera to bump the iso automatically to compensate.

Giphsub

Also, having said all that, on a dark day like those photos make it appear, it is always going to be an uphill battle to get good shots. I think you did alright.

canon400d

Giphsub wrote: »

Also, having said all that, on a dark day like those photos make it appear, it is always going to be an uphill battle to get good shots. I think you did alright.

Thanks for that Mike. I will try again and I will do as you have suggested.
Regards
Bob

Giphsub

Look forward to hearing how it goes. Hope you get some good shots!

canon400d

Giphsub wrote: »

Look forward to hearing how it goes. Hope you get some good shots!

Thanks Mike you will be the first to know.
Cheers
Bob

canon400d

canon400d wrote: »

Thanks Mike you will be the first to know.
Cheers
Bob

Well I went today and had another attempt to photo the Red Kites at their feeding stage. I am still not totally happy, but I think there may be a little improvement. The weather was much the same as last time cloudy with rain showers today. I used the 50-500 on my 40D and I used the TV mode and kept a shutter speed of 1/1250 and the aperture was 6.3. I had the ISO on auto which I never do. I noticed this was changing all the time from between 400 and 800. When I checked my photos the noise was unbelievable. I had to use Noiseware Community Edition on everyone.
However, I do intend to go back and do this shoot again until I get it right.
Here are four shots hoping that you can comment on and give me advice for the next time.
Should I be posting these pictures on a bigger scale? I did them on Large.
Regards
Bob
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Giphsub

The noise is a pity, but you really can't do much to help that if your camera doesn't handle high iso well. I don't know anything about the 40D and its iso capabilities. Luckily for me, I have the nikon d300, which handles higher isos very well. As I said, the Bigma is just hard to use on a dark day. There were many times I didn't bother if it was too dark. I'm not sure what extra advice I can give you. Perhaps try and get the sun at your back if possible. That second shot looks backlit. That little bit of extra light (even through clouds) at your back might give your camera more detail. Just keep practicing and trying different variations with your setup. Another option might be to try a better beamer (flash extender) to add some light. I haven't used one, but a lot of guys on here do. I am hoping to get one soon. But again, a dark day like that is pretty hard to do much with. I like the second shot. #4 would have been good but is very dark. Keep trying!

canon400d

Giphsub wrote: »

The noise is a pity, but you really can't do much to help that if your camera doesn't handle high iso well. I don't know anything about the 40D and its iso capabilities. Luckily for me, I have the nikon d300, which handles higher isos very well. As I said, the Bigma is just hard to use on a dark day. There were many times I didn't bother if it was too dark. I'm not sure what extra advice I can give you. Perhaps try and get the sun at your back if possible. That second shot looks backlit. That little bit of extra light (even through clouds) at your back might give your camera more detail. Just keep practicing and trying different variations with your setup. Another option might be to try a better beamer (flash extender) to add some light. I haven't used one, but a lot of guys on here do. I am hoping to get one soon. But again, a dark day like that is pretty hard to do much with. I like the second shot. #4 would have been good but is very dark. Keep trying!

Thanks Mike for your reply. My 40D I am sure my 40D does have an ISO up to 3200 but I have never used it. I always try to keep my ISO as low as possible. Yes I realise light is the main thing here and I will definately try again on a sunny day and will report again soon.
Thanks once again for all your kind help.
Regards
Bob