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Need help with sunny days!
heatherjo811
Registered Users Posts: 23 Big grins
I've started taking pics of my daughters soccer team. Biggest problem is that most of their games are mid-day on super sunny days. Ugh! My photos end up looking faded, color drowned out and the halo effect taking away from the sharpness. ANY advice would be greatly appreciated! Don't have a polarizing filter. Recently started using a B+W 77mm UVA (Ultra Violet) Haze MRC Filter #010. Should I switch?
My equip: Canon 7D, Canon EF 70-200mm is ii USM, monopod
THANKS!!!
My equip: Canon 7D, Canon EF 70-200mm is ii USM, monopod
THANKS!!!
0
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The pic from your post on my monitor looks like its exposed to the right. If you did not use any exposure compensation when you shot it, I'd recommend looking into dialing in -0.3EV and if you have shadows that put players too dark, just gently lift the shadows in post.
I have used a polarizer in the past but found that is doesn't help what I see much - it tends to create more separation between the lights and darks to the point where the darks are harder to lift in post.
- Mike
IR Modified Sony F717
http://2H2OPhoto.smugmug.com
That would be my first suggestion...although I will ask...are you using your lense hood? If not, it should pretty much always be on the front of your glass.
With both of those, in my experience (although with the Mk1 lense) you should be getting much bolder colours...
What settings are you using?
Based on the shadows, it looks like you're shooting at least partially into the sun. Do you have any shots with the sun at your back to compare?
Cheers,
Scott
If you get sharp images from still objects with your camera and lens, you are having focus issues and shutterspeed issues. While the lighting may be bad in harsh light, your sharpness should not be affected. You should be getting at least 1/5000 ss at 2.8.
I also recommend not using a monopod unless the lens is just too much for you to handhold. It makes it hard to track action which causes the uneven horizon in your shot unless you know how to do it. Also, you need to shoot tighter. For sports, you should be getting high enough ss that it compensates for camera shake. Also, IS is not needed for the same reason and it can actually hurt your focus speed.
You need more help with leveling, than exposure.
http://www.knippixels.com
For sports shooting, I usually find myself moving about too much to bother with the monopod.
Yes but the problems here would not be solved by a polarized filter.
She has asked for help with three problems...
The assumption on my part is that she's using her hood, and if not that will be a big help given that the photo provided was taken at least partially up-sun. A circular polariser (as opposed to a linear polariser which likely won't work properly) will help with the first two (bringing out greater intensity in colours, especially the grass), and the third is harder to tell without knowing the settings, which several of us have asked for... Given the gear and conditions we know so far, there is no reason to believe that the settings needed can't be achieved.
I've shot with and without a properly adjusted circular polariser in similar conditions (sports and bright sun) as recently as last weekend and the difference was noticeable.
Whether or not it works for her particular needs is for her to decide...
Leveling.... really Nipprdog? It's a little obvious so do you really think your comments are helpful? Forgive my sarcasm.
This lens is heavy so going without a monopod is not be realistic for me when shooting 3 soccer games in a 5 hour period... way to heavy for me! More power to those of you who can do it, it would certainly allow more flexibility! I try to shoot as tight as I can, but I'm just not good enough yet to keep up with how fast the kids are all the time! (I cheat with photoshop for now)
Mr. 2H2O... what do you mean by "lift the shadows in post"??? Photoshop? I have elements but have only learned the basics so far, still trying to find a way to learn how to use everything it offers! I did have it set to -0.3EV for this photo so I'm not sure if I should move further.
Still can't tell from the posts whether a polarizer would help, suppose I could just try it and see... but I think they're about $100 so I'll have to think about it.
Thanks for helping me move along my learning curve!!!
You need to shoot at 200mm. Resist the urge to pull back and forth and stay at 200mm until you get a knack of when to pull back.
I am going to guess since you were in A mode and it appears you are following the action but the camera is having trouble metering for the dark and light areas, possibly picking up the dark background and exposing for it. Next time you are out, take some sample shots of still objects or have your daughter stand still and take pics in the same light as the game is going to be in. If you are getting unfocused or fuzzy shots, then it may be a problem with the lens. If they are sharp, then you know its a technique issue.
Using a monopod can be useful if you cannot go handheld, but there is more to it than just putting the lens on the monopod. The monopod needs to stay straight up. From your picture with the unlevel background, it looks like it was on a pendulum swinging back and forth like a rock star with a microphone on a stand. You need to work on your monopod technique so it stays steady.
I also suggest get a reading from said static shots, and then get in manual mode with those settings so the camera isn't exposing for the dark backgrounds as much.
p.s. I know the sun isn't behind me and the composition isn't great... we were in a rush to catch the bus to parking for the tournament
The reason I say it will not work is because the majority of sports shooters do not use a polarizer. I get contrasty, sharp, and colorful pictures without a polarizer as do most sportshooters. I have no doubt that using a filter can give an added dimension of color, but the sharpness and clarity would not have been improved with a polarizer which is the main problem. She can spend money on a filter and it still will not solve the problem
This was shot without a hood on a 70-200 at around 11:30 on the beach which is much harsher light. I had a UV filter on because it was on the beach and was used more for protection than benefit for light. Sensors already have a UV filter on them so an added UV filter doesn't help much with light.
http://www.heatherjo.me/photos/863639569_Rxnkq-M.jpg
I don't see a pic. Here is a quick edit I did, adjusting the temperature to make it warmer and bumping saturation a bit using Elements. I think the problem is technique and focus.
Looking at that picture, I think it's a focus issue which will require practice.
It isn't about avoiding glare. I was in A mode at f4 for that shot with 0 exposure compensation. I wanted to be at 2.8, but the camera was overexposing, not being able to get past the 1/8000 minimum.
The trick is nailing focus. It isn't about the light, at least in the since of messing up the sharpness of a picture. The only time light will have that kind of effect is if you are using a long lens and shooting something miles away, and that isn't really light but more heat.
I can't help you out on the 7d, but I found this when doing a search for "canon 7d sports setting". You may want to do this search yourself because it brought up several responses in Google.
http://photo.net/canon-eos-digital-camera-forum/00WG8Y
I have a similar setup as yours (7D, 70-200 MKII and a monopod) but I've found the monopod just gets in the way. I have a different problem in that I shoot my daughter and her team's swim meets where a session is easily 4 to 5 hours not counting warmup of an hour and a heats/finals meet adds a second session in the same day of 2 1/2 to 3 hours plus again an hour of warmups. Moving around on pool deck and staying out of swimmers / coaches / officials way makes for interesting angles and positions. Here's my secret to lugging the camera and heavy lens - http://www.blackrapid.com/ - it's great because the camera hangs at my side and the strap is comfortable enough around the neck. We'll be getting another strap so that my husband has his preferred length (he's much taller than I am!) and I have mine. I'm including a picture taken with the setup as described from on deck at the pool.
My husband took this one and he had to shoot over a shoulder and between coaches to get this. When I'm not officiating at a meet, I do have camera in hand so I understand the issue of weight but that strap makes a big difference particularly when it's going to be a long day.
Betsy
Agreed. Be prepared to delete a lot of shots!
It does take quite a bit of practice to get the focus down for something like soccer.
Personally, I don't think I developed my focus abilities so much as I developed my anticipation abilities.
Like you, I started shooting my kids soccer games. With up to 5 games in a weekend...you have to find something to do!
I had similar problems with focus (and I still have problems with exposure) when I first started. I seemed to always miss the shot or it would be out of focus.
When I started examining my pictures at their full size, I could see that I was either back-focusing (the target I was focusing on was behind the kid I was trying to shoot) or that the camera just hadn't caught up. I got very good at recognizing these.
To get better I started doing the following:
- positioned myself close to or at the ends of the fields. It sounds a bit counter intuitive but it's a lot easier to keep focus when the subject is coming at you. It seems to me that the camera has less to do than when you are trying to keep focus while the subject is moving laterally.
- predict the focus. As you shoot more, you can start to recognize where the action will be. You can pre-focus on a certain area and when the action moves in, there's less for the camera to do to refocus.
- predict the action. I shot my son's soccer game this weekend and found that I was taking less shots than normal. It wasn't that there wasn't any action, it was more that I had gotten used to the play. Goalie's punting? I knew about where the ball would come down and who was likely to get it. Midfielder has the ball? 8 times out of 10, he's dumping it to the wing who is now facing me and waiting for the ball.
With practice, it becomes easier, but not perfect!
You are also dealing with a short lens. The further away the action is, the harder it will be for your camera to determine what you are focusing on. I've found in soccer that action seems to stay towards one side of the field (usually the wrong side!
As for the monopod, it's all practice. My shots are still somewhat crooked but it's easily fixed in Lightroom. You have to get used to swiveling the foot of the monopod instead of tilting to follow the action.
As you get more practice, you'll find yourself not moving much and simply pointing in the right direction anyway.
BTW, one other tip: get low!! It looks like you were standing with your monopod. That's fine but it adds distraction in the background because you are high. Try finding a milk crate or something to sit on and use that. Lower perspective will remove some of the background distractions.
- Rick
p.s. BTW: I don't use a polarizing filter.
http://zone99.smugmug.com
Nikon D300
Nikkor 18-70 DX
Nikkor 80-200 f2.8 ED
Nikon SB-600 Speedlight
Couple o' other lenses I never use!
The photo posted I believe is using a light fill flash that is what fills in the harsh shadows. If that photo is taken without fill flash in full midday sun I would love to know how the light is so nice and so soft.
For your photo it actually does not look bad for the light and conditions.
For sports in the sun you really need to shoot manual, the way you are shooting now I imagine some of your photos are very dark and some are very bright. If you use Manual you can set up to shoot one direction (from the sun) and all your photos will be perfectly exposed.
Start with F4 (not 2.8 until you get confident with your focus) set your shutter speed (probably around 4000 to start) and adjust until you exposure is just below where your blinkies will go off showing you the blown out areas (it is ok to blow out the sun lit portion just a bit).
Now once you have your exposure set to one direction you will need to keep shooting that direction. The exposure will not be correct for shooting into the sun and also away from the sun.
Make sure you have your camera set to continuous focus and to tracking focus. Set it for the least available number of tracking points and use the center focus focus spot on your camera it is the best for tracking movement. Set your frame rate for the fastest available.
Now track your subject across the field in anticipation of action coming up, with the focus button pressed halfway it will maintain focus on your subject, as the action occurs keep that center button on your subject and fire in 3 or 4 shot bursts.
Leave yourself some space do not frame the subjects to tight, the frame you posted was perfectly framed....don't overdo the tilts...in this shot it works.
If you are shooting in jpeg and your camera has something like the d-lighting that Nikon has then use it. The biggest problem with sunny days like this is to much contrast between the sun and the shadow. Reduce the contrast and then increase the black point (if you have processing abilities, also use the shadow highlight tool to bring up the darks and take down the light but be very careful with it as it will mess up your color)
Take all the filters off you don't need them and you will get some sun flare glare spots from them. You can use a monopod if it works for you just make sure you leave the camera loose so you can maintain horizon as you move.
Shoot at your cameras lowest native iso probably 100 or 200.
Feel free to PM me if you like with any further questions.
I shoot sports in midday sun all the time...in whitewater on top of it.
These are fully processed raws, not straight out of camera.
Check out my galleries so you can see I know of what I speak:
http://alloutdoor.smugmug.com/Whitewater-galleries/Catarafts-North-Fork/9580042_vpGMJ#644757328_AAAnd
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21695902@N06/
http://500px.com/Shockey
alloutdoor.smugmug.com
http://aoboudoirboise.smugmug.com/
If you are referring to my shot, fill flash was not used. I positioned myself to take advantage of the sun's angle and took advantage of the light reflecting off the sand.
makes sense, I was hoping you had discovered some sort of holy grail that magically made midday harsh sun into soft light
oh well guess I will keep searching....just kidding around
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21695902@N06/
http://500px.com/Shockey
alloutdoor.smugmug.com
http://aoboudoirboise.smugmug.com/
Sorry I just got back on line to answer your question. When I say "post" I do mean post-processing. You can use pretty much any editing program you choose to help brighten up the darker parts of photos including Google's free Picasa photo organizer and editing program.
When I shoot, I use center weighted focus (although when I shoot sports I use a manual focus lens) and I use multi-point exposure reading and adjust my EV as necessary. If I shoot with the sun to my back, I'll dial in -0.3EV for my lens/body combination. If I shoot into the sun, I'll use +0.7 ~ +1.0EV compensation for my setup.
The picture here was in bright midday sun and I lifted the shadows a little. I was using 0EV compensation because the lens I was using typically requires +0.3EV for normal shooting - so its kind of like -0.3EV on your rig.
IR Modified Sony F717
http://2H2OPhoto.smugmug.com
Heather, you have a semi-pro camera and a very pro lens (one that I bet most pros can't afford) that are certainly capable of delivering results just like John68's, but to expect results like that without a high degree of skill, regardless of the equipment, is plain silly. I don't know what your experience is, but one look at John68's shot tells me that he has years of experience combined with two other things, a good knowledge of photography in combination with how HIS EQUIPMENT works in relation to that knowledge. You can't drive an SUV all your life and then jump into a Ferrari and expect to know how to drive it. Same thing here, except you're holding the Ferrari in your hands. The great thing about digital photography is that you can experiment all you want, for FREE. Bring the kids to the playground, stay in Ap, turn IS on and off, shoot static and moving subjects, guess/expect what the results will be, check it out, is it what you expect, if not, why, pick another setting and play with it. And from my experience WRITE DOWN THE RESULTS!!!. Oh man, too many times I get to my daughter's lacrosse game and say 'what did I learn from my results last time?' 'what settings was I going to use this time?'. I started writing down and laminating small cheat sheets for different situations; lacrosse sunny, lacrosse cloudy, band concert indoors, etc, etc. I hole punch them, stick them on a ring and carry them in my bag. It's made a huge difference. Hey, enjoy yourself, enjoy the journey, and good luck.
MikeV
http://www.vitaminv.smugmug.com
I'm going to caveat the use of a monopod. I shoot surf. There is no way in heck that I can hand hold a 500 for any length of time--I need to use a monopod.
The caveat for using a monopod is proper technique. A large heavy glass like a 500mm will work with the photography and actually make it difficult to make quick jerky movements. A small lens like a 70-200 allows for quick jerky movements that cause more uneven backgrounds and focus issues. A heavy lens is harder to move around so the movements following the action are going to be smoother.