Canon's EOS 7D yeah on nay??

rickp

Hey guys and gals,
I'm currently using a 50D but I'm brainstorming bumping up to the 7D.

What are the general opinions on this model? It looks good on paper.

Thanks
R.

ziggy53

What are your reasons for wanting the 7D over the 50D?

How would you be using the 7D? (What photographic applications?)

Are there any other pieces of equipment you are considering that you would delay if you got the 7D?

rickp

the reasons are the new features to be honest, like the video, the added AF points etc... I have all the glass I need, and even the body is something I would like, not really need.

R.

ziggy53

In that case I say, "go for it."

The 7D is the very best of the Canon crop 1.6x bodies to date with some similarities to, and technologies from, the Canon 1D series cameras. The dual processors and reasonably advanced AF are primary reasons to want the 7D, and the ability to select separate AF points for landscape and portrait orientations just seal the deal.

Of course, it is the 1D MKIV that is a true life changer.

rickp

ziggy,
so one can chose multiple individual AF points? Is so, I know tha new feature was worth looking at (from my living room) OL

ziggy53

The Canon 7D has one of the most configurable AF sections ever devised, including the following modes:

1. Manual AF point selection mode
   
2. Spot AF point selection mode
   
3. AF point expansion mode
   
4. Automatic AF point selection mode
   
5. Zone AF mode

chrisjohnson

rickp wrote: »

ziggy,
so one can chose multiple individual AF points? Is so, I know tha new feature was worth looking at (from my living room) OL

I don't own 7D myself and never used it but most people seem happy with their purchase. It seems to do what it says on the tin.

Is it better than 50D? Certainly. Is it worth the extra money? Depends what you want to do with it. People seem to like the AF for fast moving objects - sports, birds etc.

Video is up and coming but personally when I want to shoot video I'll still buy a separate video camera. (I thought 50D also does video but I may be wrong). The mixed-mode folks seem to be very happy with 5D.

When you want the best body money can buy then you need the 1 series or something similar from other brands.

GadgetRick

goldenballs wrote: »

Video is up and coming but personally when I want to shoot video I'll still buy a separate video camera. (I thought 50D also does video but I may be wrong). The mixed-mode folks seem to be very happy with 5D.

50D doesn't do video.

Jeffro

I had a 7D in my hands last weekend, now I want one.

final_alarm

I really like mine so a thumbs up from me. It's a major upgrade in every way over the XSI i was using before I got it.

gecko0

rickp wrote: »

ziggy,
so one can chose multiple individual AF points? Is so, I know tha new feature was worth looking at (from my living room) OL

to add to ziggy's reply on this question, check out this Canon demo video that shows each focus point mode in action:

http://cdn.sellpoint.net/canon/EOS_7D_Versatile-AutoFocus.html

John Mueller

I have a 7D and miss the 50D

chrisjohnson

gecko0 wrote: »

to add to ziggy's reply on this question, check out this Canon demo video that shows each focus point mode in action:

http://cdn.sellpoint.net/canon/EOS_7D_Versatile-AutoFocus.html

I watched the video but I don't get it for normal use.

I use the central focus point and lock it in (half-depress shoot button), then frame the shot, and shoot. Seems to work (40D).

Sometimes I use manual focus.

I can see the 7D is a bit better for fast moving subjects but when you shoot static subjects it just seems more complicated. Is it really any better than my way?

ziggy53

goldenballs wrote: »

... I can see the 7D is a bit better for fast moving subjects but when you shoot static subjects it just seems more complicated. Is it really any better than my way?

For static subject matter the 7D "is better, just not dramatically better.

The 7D is built for faster focus and faster frame rates and generally faster shooting performance than any other Canon crop camera except for the 1D series. To that end it succeeds. It also makes a pretty good acquisition device for "indie" style video.

If you don't need the speed or video the 50D still makes a lot of sense.

Note that you can turn off the advanced functions of the AF on the 7D to make it more similar to the AF functions of the 50D. (Custom Function III-6) I believe that you still retain all 19 AF cross-type sensors versus 9 cross-type sensors in the 50D.

Blurmore

I just bought one, I used it for one wedding. Truthfully, it is a game changer for me because of the wireless command built into the body. The HD video is big, like REALLY big, and so far I've found that it doesn not appreciate non-UDMA cards. Bought a 16 gig transcend UDMA 400x with it and it loves that thing, my older 4 & 8 gig cards? not so much, especially with teh video. The video itself is beautiful, and unbelievable, but the file size puts it firmly in the category of "gimick" for me right now. The AF has awesome accuracy and with an attached speedlight it is quick, using it with just the popup as illuminator? not as good, ok, but not the camera's full potential. IQ is very nice, I found myself shooting the dancing part of the reception at 1600 rather than 800 ISO, and the low iso stuff is stunning especially paired with the 17-55 f2.8. I have a 40D/30D/20D (no fifty) but I can say that I did NOT purchase a 50 because it was not enough of a step up, the 7D is enough of a step over both. If you need it, buy it.

Blurmore

goldenballs wrote: »

I watched the video but I don't get it for normal use.

I use the central focus point and lock it in (half-depress shoot button), then frame the shot, and shoot. Seems to work (40D).

Sometimes I use manual focus.

I can see the 7D is a bit better for fast moving subjects but when you shoot static subjects it just seems more complicated. Is it really any better than my way?

Focus recompose will eventually leave you a broken shell of a human being that is obsessed with the fact that there is something wrong with his equipment, learn to use off center focus points or buy a TLR.

[Deleted User]

Started with a 50D, 100-400 & 28-135 kit lens. Added other lenses over time and found I could really use a second body. Waited a while and decided enough folks found the 7D had things I could use too.

Bought the 7D. It's really working well and is my BIF body now (70-200 f/4 IS with or without the 1.4x). The 50D has become the tripod mounted body (500 f/4 with or without 1.4x and 100-400).

If you think it has things that you can use that are a step up from the 50D go for it. It was worth it to me.

scorch07

Blurmore wrote: »

I just bought one, I used it for one wedding. Truthfully, it is a game changer for me because of the wireless command built into the body. The HD video is big, like REALLY big, and so far I've found that it doesn not appreciate non-UDMA cards. Bought a 16 gig transcend UDMA 400x with it and it loves that thing, my older 4 & 8 gig cards? not so much, especially with teh video. The video itself is beautiful, and unbelievable, but the file size puts it firmly in the category of "gimick" for me right now. The AF has awesome accuracy and with an attached speedlight it is quick, using it with just the popup as illuminator? not as good, ok, but not the camera's full potential. IQ is very nice, I found myself shooting the dancing part of the reception at 1600 rather than 800 ISO, and the low iso stuff is stunning especially paired with the 17-55 f2.8. I have a 40D/30D/20D (no fifty) but I can say that I did NOT purchase a 50 because it was not enough of a step up, the 7D is enough of a step over both. If you need it, buy it.

What sort of filesize are you talking? I haven't used the 7D yet, but I do work with high quality HD video on a weekly basis. Good video requires some pretty crazy bitrates.

Overfocused

To answer some questions...

I'm a geek who uses Canon, and I've done probably too much research on this stuff (Almost sick of it) but with confidence I can say you would be very happy with the 7D. It's the best jack of all trades camera you can get that's under $5K from Canon, at an exceptionally above average level with everything except noise. Cramming 18MP on a 1.6x camera will inevitably result in more noise at higher ISO than a full frame camera no matter how much processing speed you have, but it's generally not a problem.

However if you want image quality better than all but the newest 1Dx model and not pay 5 grand, the 5D Mark II is the best ($2200 or so if you shop well) The main differences are that it is half the speed at 4FPS, and has only 9 AF points. With full frame, you would get about half the noise... I.E. ISO 6400 on the Mark II would look slightly better than the 7D at 3200 (and it is printable!) Also the HD video bitrate on the 7d is about %25 larger than the mark II, (roughly 7.2MB/sec vs 5.7MB/sec) but the difference in video quality isn't noticeable because its all so beautifully clear and smooth.

In short: 7d = features galore, Mark II = quality and low light heaven minus a few features like integrated wireless and an electronic level.... but neither will disappoint!

divamum

After three weeks with a 7d, I can say BIG FAT YEAH. I'm more impressed with this machine every time I use it and have to admit that my keeper rate has increased exponentially - it seems like more shots come out properly exposed and properly focused (the AF is truly wonderful) but with less conscious effort on my part - the technology is transparent, which is pretty wonderful.

While its plethora of (terrific) features are always discussed, one thing that doesn't seem to get mentioned all that much is the new colour-metering exposure system, which IMO is definitely a step forward compared to the xsi and 50d (the other cameras I've had); the meter in this thing is very accurate and reliable so far.

Yesterday I was doing some quick shots for my daughter's girl scout troop (basically snapshots - nothing exciting) and even in Av when I was drifting dangerously close to point-and-shoot, the shots were useable practically SOOC. These barely needed any processing to look great - they've had a slight contrast adjustment and the tiniest hint of sharpening in LR, and that's about it. Also, the AF is just SO reliable (and fast) - it makes shooting in any circumstances a pleasure since you barely have to think about it.





The following shot is nobody's idea of a great BIF photograph, but I include it in praise of the 7d because:

- I don't shoot birds in flight, we had no idea the herons were there,I only had the 85mm lens on the camera and when everybody shouted, "Ooh! Heron!" I spun around and snapped the shot without any attempt to focus or frame - total grab shot. The 7d focused on exactly what I wanted with pretty much zero technique on my part (I was on single point simply because that's how I have it set 99% of the time anyway, but that's about the only thing I can claim!)

- This is a very deep crop (I only had an 85mm lens on at the time). I think it's less than 50% of the original shot.



Lastly, ISO. The 5dII and its full-frame-y goodness is of course going to be better for the highest ISOs, but I'm pretty impressed with the 7d on that score for a crop camera. You do have to nail the exposure - as with any shot, if you underexpose, you WILL get significant noise when you lift the brightness in post - but if the shot is well-exposed, ISO 2000 looks better than 800 did on the xsi and 1600 on the 50d. This shot had a wb adjustment and NR in Lightroom (no external editor). It's cropped in a bit from a wider shot.

ISO2000

Dan7312

Have you been using the automatic AF point selection, or using manual or the zones?

divamum wrote: »

it seems like more shots come out properly exposed and properly focused (the AF is truly wonderful) but with less conscious effort on my part - the technology is transparent, which is pretty wonderful.

divamum

Single point AF, which suits my shooting style (which is often at wide apertures). But the additional focus points to choose from, the increased accuracy/speed of the non-central points, and the AF speed have all added up to MUCH better AF performance, IMO.

Blurmore

7D focus quirks...

I was working a particularly dark ballroom in Delaware over the weekend. I left the camera in servo and had a BITCH of a time focusing in light I would have focused fine in with my 40D, switching it single fixed it, but the low light/low contrast really played havoc with the servo more so than it would have been with the 40D. Interestingly enough when I asked the venue manager how other photographers shoot dancing in that room with the light so low I was told that I was the first photographer who shot the dancing...go figure. Delaware, weird state.

Overfocused

Yeah the different modes change accuracy completely and will make ANY camera quirky in the wrong mode. I use the 70-200 F4 for concerts and events on a 5D II (which had notorious focus problems), and in the right mode for darkness it almost never hunts, but if its on the wrong mode it makes you want to scream. Really all it takes is knowing which mode is best for what light. Or get a split focus screen and go manual

divamum

See, I never use servo. I'm usually on single point because I spend so much time at f1.8-4.0 (it's a sickness, I know ), but at some pointe when I'm doing something where I actually stopping down a tad I want to try the zone focus and see how that performs.

I'm currently doing a bunch of self-portrait shooting to practice some lighting setups in a different space (I'm a lousy model, but at least I'm always available when I want to shoot!) and using the RC1 remote with the 7d on single focus point. Whenever I've done this with the xsi my lenses hunted and hunted and hunted because the focus point wasn't square over something contrast-y - I usually gave up, stopped down as far as I could, preset manual focus and went from there.

In contrast, the 7d has latched on to something pretty much first time every time with nothing obvious to guide it, and is actually getting what I WANTED it to focus on about half the time, which is kind of amazing when I'm shooting at shallow depth of field and on the wrong side of the camera!

Every time I use this camera I'm more impressed with what it can do.

Dan7312

I think I may be misunderstanding something about how autofocus works. I thought auto focusing is always done with the lens wide open, then it stops down to the selected aperature when you release the shutter. So I guess what I don't understand is why the aperature setting would affect how long it takes to focus? Does the camera do some kind of final focus check at the selected aperature?

divamum wrote: »

Whenever I've done this with the xsi at less than about f5.6 the AF on all my lenses hunted and hunted and hunted because the focus point wasn't square over something contrast-y

divamum

I don't know, Dan, I just know that it seems to be the case! The hunting may be nothing to do with aperture: I do know that lenses hunt for contrast and it may be that the situations in which I ask my lenses to focus when I'm doing SP's for practice don't offer a lot of that and, especially when I'm on the wrong side of the camera and so can't "place" the focus point accurately, it winds up hunting. But the 7d is struggling to focus a very great deal less, and also "guessing" what I want a lot better. Since DOF is often so shallow at less than 4.0, it's extremely common to miss and grab something in front of or behind the desired center of focus, but the 7d's hit rate is a lot higher. I suspect that the extra focus points help here too, as I can select one that's likely to be closer to what I want to focus on (plus those focus points are more sensitive than those on the xsi).

Btw, the reason I can't comment on the 50d's response in this situation, is I never got a remote to use with it - the 7d and xsi can both use the RC1, which is a nice little bonus

Regarding focus accuracy, that grab shot I took of the heron also relied on the camera to figure out what I wanted sharp - that was a messy scene with lots of tree branches and other things which could/should have confused the camera, even on single point AF. But it grabbed the bird - which is what I wanted - with seemingly no problem.

Dan7312

That's good to know. Maybe Ziggy or a Ziggy clone will jump in with more details. I don't have my old camera (a 10D) to directly compare it to, but I it does seem my 7D is focusing more quickly and on more things than the 10D did.

colourbox

goldenballs wrote: »

I use the central focus point and lock it in (half-depress shoot button), then frame the shot, and shoot. Seems to work (40D).

It works fine...as long as you have a lot of depth of field. When you choose a wide aperture, as in low light situations, you may be left with so little depth of field that when you recompose by rotating the camera, the narrow plane of focus rotates out of what you focused on and it's no longer in focus.

On a cheaper body like my Rebel XT, or an older body like your 40D, you have to use focus/recompose more often because in low light, the other focus points are nowhere near as accurate and fast as the center point.

But if you have a better body like a 7D, the focusing system has far more of the more accurate cross-type focus points all over the frame, which means you can select non-center focus points with speed and confidence while maintaining your composition. On a 7D you want to avoid falling back on center-point focus-recompose for still subjects because if you do, you're unnecessarily leaving yourself open to focus-recompose errors, potentially wasting all the money you spent on the 7D's brilliant focusing system (which I am still studying...).

Even on my Rebel I try to select the closest focus point whenever possible, and to make this easier I enabled the custom function so that the four direction buttons select focus points by default, in addition to using the wheel.

Blurmore

Here is how autofocus and stopping down works...yes the lens is always focusing at max aperture, the caveat is that it is the max aperture FOR the selected focal length. So if you are using a 3.5 (@WA)-5.6(@fullzoom) lens zoomed in, you are focusing at f5.6 as that is the max aperture for the focal length. Unfortunately you can't focus at f3.5 on the long end if all ya got is 5.6.

ziggy53

The Canon 7D has the most advanced AF in any Canon crop 1.6x camera body. All of the 19 AF sensor points are "cross type" and the center sensor position is a high-precision (at f2.8) dual-cross, compared to the 50D 9 - cross type with central high-precision.

The 7D has dual processors which definitely help since one is generally dedicated to AF, rather than sharing other image responsibilities like the 50D with a single processor.

I am not aware of any reason why choosing a smaller aperture should create a situation for the AF system to hunt more than the same lens and choosing a larger aperture. Lenses of small maximum aperture will naturally hunt more in low light than will lenses of larger maximum aperture.