Business discussion - Why does an 8x10 cost x?

Jeremy_22

Something I have been working on for a while, wrote this almost a month ago and came back to it. We just published it today as a blog entry on our site. Should be a good topic for discussion.

http://www.dsmphotocompany.com/?p=250

Almost everyone contacting the studio asks a standard first question… “How much are your 8×10’s?” but every now and then, someone comes into our studio and asks the next question (and an excellent question it is, we might add) which is the topic of this post. For us, it’s one of the easiest answers we can give yet we understand not everyone knows what goes into creating one 8×10 portrait art. We ensure every effort is spent making sure every product that leaves our studio is not only of the highest quality – but unique. Our clients expect that from us and we enjoy providing them with an art piece they can’t get at any retail portrait studio.

Every studio has different rates, some higher (as much as $150 or more per 8×10) and some are less. It all depends on how that studio has evaluated their time and costs to produce that work of art. However, our most popular products are not gift prints (8×10 and smaller) but instead most of our clients desire something a step above. This is where we include our art/elite wall prints (canvas wraps, metal murals, etc) and albums…then adding gift prints for extended family. The 8×10 seems to be the benchmark for pricing in our industry and what clients use to compare across studios.

Today we are giving you a rare look inside how we go about assigning a price to our products, using our basic session and 8×10 as an example. Below is a list of our time spent to create our shortest session and finished art print:

- Time with the lead up front (either phone or e-mail). Likely around 15 minutes
- In person consultation, usually about 30-60 minutes
- Setup for the session, can be anywhere from 20 minutes to 90 depending on if we’re doing studio or on-location
- Session takes 90 minutes
- Loading of images to the computer, back-up images – 15 minutes
- Color correcting and Culling images – 30 minutes
- Prepping for the viewing (loading images to the projector, marking favorites, prepping music, setting the lighting and temp or the room, making popcorn/cookies, etc) – 30 minutes
- Conduct in person viewing/sales session – 60-90 minutes
- Processing the one 8×10 image and sending off to print – 30-45 minutes
- Delivery/Shipping – 15 minutes

Total time spent – 5.75-8hrs

That’s a significant amount of time and it’s well spent creating your art…you would be lucky to get a fifth of that time at a retail studio. As previously stated, we make every effort to give you the best and most unique products possible.

In reviewing our time spent, we have not even factored in the cost of the lab print, the wear/tear on our equipment, packaging, insurance, continuing education, overhead on our studio space, etc. In addition, our studio includes two full PPA (Professional Photographers of America) listed photographers creating your art. Each client we serve means time spent away from our families. Having said that we absolutely love creating art for our clients, it’s a passion every member of our team shares but we couldn’t do this without our education, experience and equipment.

We hope you enjoyed this sneak peak inside our studio and a little piece of mind that we aren’t just throwing a dart at the dartboard to determine our pricing. Every item on our price menu has been deliberated by the team. We don’t take pricing lightly and, while we need to do a certain amount to stay in business, we always side on providing the lowest price we can for the high value of product we produce. We are capturing moments in time, milestones of a beautiful life. How much is that worth to you? We know to us at dsmPhotoCompany, it is priceless. Of course if you are here as someone who has never experienced our studio and the dedication we put in for you then we urge you to setup your own personal consultation and we would be happy to answer any additional questions.

Snowgirl

iClickPhotography wrote: »

Something I have been working on for a while, wrote this almost a month ago and came back to it. We just published it today as a blog entry on our site. Should be a good topic for discussion.

http://www.dsmphotocompany.com/?p=250

Almost everyone contacting the studio asks a standard first question… “How much are your 8×10’s?” but every now and then, someone comes into our studio and asks the next question (and an excellent question it is, we might add) which is the topic of this post. For us, it’s one of the easiest answers we can give yet we understand not everyone knows what goes into creating one 8×10 portrait art. We ensure every effort is spent making sure every product that leaves our studio is not only of the highest quality – but unique. Our clients expect that from us and we enjoy providing them with an art piece they can’t get at any retail portrait studio.

Every studio has different rates, some higher (as much as $150 or more per 8×10) and some are less. It all depends on how that studio has evaluated their time and costs to produce that work of art. However, our most popular products are not gift prints (8×10 and smaller) but instead most of our clients desire something a step above. This is where we include our art/elite wall prints (canvas wraps, metal murals, etc) and albums…then adding gift prints for extended family. The 8×10 seems to be the benchmark for pricing in our industry and what clients use to compare across studios.

Today we are giving you a rare look inside how we go about assigning a price to our products, using our basic session and 8×10 as an example. Below is a list of our time spent to create our shortest session and finished art print:

- Time with the lead up front (either phone or e-mail). Likely around 15 minutes
- In person consultation, usually about 30-60 minutes
- Setup for the session, can be anywhere from 20 minutes to 90 depending on if we’re doing studio or on-location
- Session takes 90 minutes
- Loading of images to the computer, back-up images – 15 minutes
- Color correcting and Culling images – 30 minutes
- Prepping for the viewing (loading images to the projector, marking favorites, prepping music, setting the lighting and temp or the room, making popcorn/cookies, etc) – 30 minutes
- Conduct in person viewing/sales session – 60-90 minutes
- Processing the one 8×10 image and sending off to print – 30-45 minutes
- Delivery/Shipping – 15 minutes

Total time spent – 5.75-8hrs

That’s a significant amount of time and it’s well spent creating your art…you would be lucky to get a fifth of that time at a retail studio. As previously stated, we make every effort to give you the best and most unique products possible.

In reviewing our time spent, we have not even factored in the cost of the lab print, the wear/tear on our equipment, packaging, insurance, continuing education, overhead on our studio space, etc. In addition, our studio includes two full PPA (Professional Photographers of America) listed photographers creating your art. Each client we serve means time spent away from our families. Having said that we absolutely love creating art for our clients, it’s a passion every member of our team shares but we couldn’t do this without our education, experience and equipment.

We hope you enjoyed this sneak peak inside our studio and a little piece of mind that we aren’t just throwing a dart at the dartboard to determine our pricing. Every item on our price menu has been deliberated by the team. We don’t take pricing lightly and, while we need to do a certain amount to stay in business, we always side on providing the lowest price we can for the high value of product we produce. We are capturing moments in time, milestones of a beautiful life. How much is that worth to you? We know to us at dsmPhotoCompany, it is priceless. Of course if you are here as someone who has never experienced our studio and the dedication we put in for you then we urge you to setup your own personal consultation and we would be happy to answer any additional questions.

Well said! That makes it abundantly clear, in a pleasant and tactful way, that the prices for your work reflects more than simply the paper and ink on which it's ultimately produced. I'd be interested in knowing what responses you get from existing and potential customers.

ivar

I've moved this to the Mind Your Own Business forum.

chrisjohnson

I am not a professional photographer so you are well within your rights to tell me to mind my own business.

I am always curious why so many studios are concerned with hourly rates for portraits. Buying a portrait is not a commodity business. And when there is a choice, people will go with the people they trust to give a great result, not necessarily the cheapest - I think. When they think about affordability they will compare with other ways to spend a chunk of cash - a weekend break, say.

Portraits for families are big emotional investments - my son in his graduation robes will be hanging on the wall for many years, the twins with the proud parents, the family boat, whatever ... You are selling something that will be central to that family for years. If there is a fire, your portrait will the one memory they grab before running out of the door. Get my drift?

The end result is also a question mark. Most customers have an idea where the portrait will hang and that will affect the print size; their idea of decor will impact the choice of frame; the lighting will affect the choice of glass; etc. The end result happens when the portrait is hanging in the appointed spot and everyone goes "aah!" - this is the service you are providing. You are not selling hours.

People go to you for a portrait because you understand this stuff - all of it. You are an artist and master of your craft. Would you buy expensive drapes from someone who expects you to install them yourself?

When you explain why your price is high you need to talk about the service you offer, the years of learning, the professional tools that are needed for a professional result, the testimonials, your portfolio, your management of the total project. Your product is the delivery of an "aah" effect and nobody really cares how much time it takes (except you).

I hope you don't mind my contribution.

The basic weakness of your pitch is that after a few hundred words you still have not answered my question - what does it cost me to be amazed by you?

mercphoto

goldenballs wrote: »

Buying a portrait is not a commodity business. And when there is a choice, people will go with the people they trust to give a great result, not necessarily the cheapest - I think.

I don't agree with that.

orljustin

That's too much text. The answer is "Our prints are priced the way they are, because the cost incorporates more than just dollars for ink and paper, but also our time and experience to create it".

If you can't go with that, just charge $400 a session and give them X prints for free.

Jeremy_22

goldenballs wrote: »

The basic weakness of your pitch is that after a few hundred words you still have not answered my question - what does it cost me to be amazed by you?

Weakness? No. We have our prices in studio in a book. It's a complete product menu and we review it in our in-person consultation or phone consults. A big key I learned is get your clients in front of you or on the phone as early as you can in the process. It's drastically increased our lead-to-client conversion ratio and our average sales.

mercphoto wrote: »

I don't agree with that.

Some are all about price, we don't get many of those clients. Others are about quality and those are the clients we target.

orljustin wrote: »

That's too much text. The answer is "Our prints are priced the way they are, because the cost incorporates more than just dollars for ink and paper, but also our time and experience to create it".

If you can't go with that, just charge $400 a session and give them X prints for free.

We didn't write a novel, just a blog. lol

Some of our sessions are $500 and includes a print credit. We even have a $1000 session that includes a 16x20 elite print (canvas, framed, metal). Both of these sessions also include hair/make-up. Our basic session is $150 with no print credit.

Sam

Based on your initial post, and the hypothetical session, how much would that 8X10 cost?

Sam

chrisjohnson

Sam wrote: »

Based on your initial post, and the hypothetical session, how much would that 8X10 cost?

Sam

Sam says it in a nutshell.

There are a lot of people out there who never get as far as a personal meeting because they don't know what it costs.

Your choice whether you go commodity or full service.

Jeremy_22

Sam wrote: »

Based on your initial post, and the hypothetical session, how much would that 8X10 cost?

Sam

$65. These are discounted on our bonus schedule when clients reach certain order amounts, they can get 8x10s for $45 from images already ordered at the $600 order amount.

$100 for an 8x10 mounted and spray textured.

goldenballs wrote: »

Your choice whether you go commodity or full service.

Pretty obvious we provide a full service boutique studio. We have clients bring in portraits of their walls and project the images on their wall. We also design wall collections, just completed a collection of 6 canvas wraps for a client with the largest being 24x36, 2 at 10x16 and 3 at 8x8. We will not only be delivering it, but helping them hang it on their walls.

Glort wrote: »

As people who really understand sales know, sell the sizzle not the steak!!!

Sold plenty of sizzle last night, but the clients were asking us when selecting a wedding photographer for their CA wedding (we did their engagements locally and will be doing their anti-bridals and reception on NYE) what the difference was between a $1000 and $5000 wedding photographer. In their viewing last night, they actually referenced our blog and how it made sense.

No excuses intended, just facts. So far it's working, because we are already well over double what we grossed in all of 2009. However, still not close to where we need/want to be.

mercphoto

Glort wrote: »

All you are doing is being led by the nose by the client and trying to justify something they really don't give a rats about no matter how many shooters want to believe educating the client is the answer.
It's not.

Very interesting argument, even though I cut most of it in the interest of Internet brevity. I'm trying to draw parallels to the high fidelity market. I remember back in the days when I spent stupid sums of money on stereo equipment, there is a line of cables from a company called Nordost that my local dealer sells. They are excellent cables, but they are very expensive. My dealer would never talk about the materials, or how complicated and involved the manufacturing process is, or anything like that to justify the cost. Why did I end up willing to spend $200 on a 1-meter interconnect, or $800 on a 2-meter speaker cable? Simply because I liked the sound. Pure emotion. They sold me the sizzle and I didn't ever realize it. In their words "if a $200 cable makes your existing CD player sound like a model $400 more expensive isn't it worth it?"

My track day photography sizzle is the catch-phrase "nobody makes you look faster" (because too many track photographers around here don't know how, or don't bother, to show motion in a shot). This is making me want to raise my prices and heavily market the sizzle.

Sam

Thanks for the answer.

At risk of creating a controversy, I am going to make a few comments.

I couldn't find any names associated on your web site? From your wording and business approach, ( pampering your clientele ) I am going out on a limb and say your two women, and the bulk of your clients are woman.

I appreciated your explanation you give your clients and while I like the concept, your explanation seems a little to long and drawn out for me. Yet it apparently works!

It seems like this is the upscale uber pamper beauty salon approach to photography.

Good to see your business model is successful. It does show there is a market at the top of the price range for a company like yours offering more than just photography.

Maybe we can all look at including a little bit of this concept and raise prices.

Sam

Edit: Ya gota love Glort, right or wrong you always know where this guy stands.

Jeremy_22

Reading way too much into it. It's not a sales pitch, it's a blog! lol

Here's another...this is a bit more how we sell - not the history stuff, but the emotional connection to our portraits.

http://www.dsmphotocompany.com/?p=537

zoomer

Or you could shorten it to this exerpt from your book:
"We are capturing moments in time, milestones of a beautiful life. How much is that worth to you?" (Quoted from iclick's OP.)

Really...no one is going to read all that.

Jeremy_22

zoomer wrote: »

Really...no one is going to read all that.

I've stated already, that is inaccurate.

Have a good weekend all!

orljustin

iClickPhotography wrote: »

I've stated already, that is inaccurate.

Have a good weekend all!

Ok, some might read it. I got about two lines in and then blah, blah, blah, who cares...

mercphoto

orljustin wrote: »

Ok, some might read it. I got about two lines in and then blah, blah, blah, who cares...

But this is what matters: "because we are already well over double what we grossed in all of 2009"

zoomer

Agreed but that is because they do good work, not because they wrote a book about their 8x10's .