Airshow pics - may we sell them ?
Digital101
Registered Users Posts: 9 Beginner grinner
Hello - i read through some of the stickys on copyright, and had a question. If i pay a fee to see a public airshow, may i sell the pictures that i take ? Specifically in this case, the photos would be pics of planes in the air or static displays with no general public in the photos
Does the situation change if they are military planes (like a Blue Angels team,etc...) ?
thanks for any of your feedback !
Dave
Does the situation change if they are military planes (like a Blue Angels team,etc...) ?
thanks for any of your feedback !
Dave
0
Comments
Besides, even if you did have the right to do so free and clear, that doesn't mean you can't be taken to court anyway.
For example, as a member I go to the week-long EAA Airventure in Oshkosh each year at the end of July. They specifically disallow selling those photos and lay claim to all photos taken on the grounds. It is clearly stated here: http://www.airventure.org/media/airventure_photo_policy.pdf
I would suspect, lawyers being what they are, the rules are similar for virtually all public airshows here in the US.
Nam et ipsa scientia potestas est.
This policy as stated could not fit on the back of a normal sized event ticket.
Also I believe the terms are referring to commercial use which is pretty normal fore any business or event, but you can sell images as fine art or for editorial use. I have found images on the web from EAA events for sale as fine art. They can not claim ownership to your images.
Sam
www.ivarborst.nl & smugmug
Sam
While I personally do disagree with their stance, as a long-time EAA member, I and most other members and visitors respect the organization's published rules on photography and try to abide by them.
Nam et ipsa scientia potestas est.
This is a grey zone.
I doubt anyone would ever take you to court whatever they write on their ticket, web-site, whatever. Lawyers are expensive and courts unpredictable.
When this is a big feature of your business then you should create a grey zone of your own and do your sales via a limited liability company. I believe in US these are cheap and easy to set up and run. I believe when there is one owner only you do not even need to do a company tax return and can do it via your personal taxes. You can even deduct reasonable costs - reasonable in relation to your revenue, not what you might imagine is reasonable
The business related risks are only transferrable to you personally when fraud is an issue or when it can be proved you are running some kind of criminal enterprise under an alter-ego. So in the highly unlikely event you are sued, do not not settle out-of-court someone's reasonable claim to share your profits, and get hit with big bills - your LLC is bankrupted and not you. In practice nobody in their right mind would ever sue this kind of LLC because a naked chicken has no feathers.
I suspect most pros in US have a legal entity for their business to protect their personal assets. Otherwise you might lose everything when someone trips over your powercord at a wedding, breaks their neck, and your insurance company pays out little or nothing.
You can license any "newsworthy" images you like on an editorial basis.
Commercial licensing would require releases/permission from some, such as the Blue Angels (you won't get it), etc.
Rules printed on tickets are not necessarily enforceable in any way. Once you have the images, you are free to do with them as you like (keeping in mind the commercial use restrictions).
See here for more:
http://www.danheller.com/model-release.html
Ha! That's quite the ridiculous statement. The shooter always retains their rights to the images.
The rest of their bit about enforcing their trademarks is fine. But you just can't run about claiming you own people's images.
It's not about violating others rights, but about protecting yours.
Sam
I'm curious why you think that pics of the Blue Angels would require a release. Since they are a military demonstration team I don't believe that any release is necessary, similar to how pictures of national monuments don't need a release. Private aircraft are a different story though.
Please note the pertinent verbage in the very notice referenced earlier in this thread and recognize this discussion is a moot point:
...The sale or use of any Recording of any aspect or activity connected with AirVenture (including but not limited to aircraft, crowds, air shows, forums, exhibits, etc.) for commercial purposes without EAA’s written permission is strictly prohibited, not only during the event but on a continuing, perpetual basis, except as may be expressly permitted by a written agreement with EAA. This includes, but is not limited to, “Non-linear” use such as archived television content on the Internet, television content available on a video-on-demand basis, and television content made available via PVR downloads is prohibited without expressed prior written permission by EAA. This also includes images distributed through formats that include (but are not limited to) cellular, personal communications services and other methods of providing content to handheld digital devices pages, specialized mobile radio and wireless internet (including WIFI).
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
The US Navy owns the trademark on the logo and design of the aircraft. Trademark: 89000070 , which you can find on the US Trademark site. Trademarks are protected for commercial use, even if owned by the government. How's that?
The OP asked a general question about airshows, not specifically about EAA. Overall I agree with ORLJUSTIN except that I don't believe that photos of government owned planes need special permission to be used for any lawful purpose. I do believe that privately owned planes would need a property release for commercial usage and other aspects of the airshow may require a release if it is private property.
Just saw your reply. Thank you for that. I will have to look into it further. My main experience is editorial work but this issue interests me since the Thunderbirds will be performing at an airshow near me soon and it is helpful to know what markets I can sell into.
I have been working in the Intellectual Property field for 20 years. The only time anyone gets sued is when there is a massive amount of money at stake and then legal arguments can become arcane. Most companies will never go to court even when you infringe patents because the courts are a lottery and the knock-on effects of a negative ruling too severe. They rely instead on legal intimidation - like the stuff cited above.
The chances of your taking a photo which brings you in the danger zone are vanishingly small. And, as said before, doing your thing via a limited company will make it even more unlikely and ensure you have almost no downside risk. You maybe need to be prepared to not answer lawyer's letters - not difficult.
Just don't do silly stuff like shoot a model without permission and sell the pics in a national ad campaign. The courts will not side with you and rightly so. The prospect of the US Navy prosecuting anybody for shooting Thunderbirds (with a camera) is inconceivable.
It is indeed. But if you tried to make money off of their property, the Blue Angels, you might find them to be a little more sensitive (sorry, couldn't resist. The AF is the Thunderbirds).
If I post it, please tell me how to make it better. My fragile ego can take it.
I noticed you're in Australia.
Next time, I'll use a smiley
I would say it is exactly for this reason they would be protective, not for the money. If the Blue Angels are a marketing and PR force to be reckoned with, if you license an image for commercial use that goes against their public image, they might not be so happy. ie "Join the Navy and become a Blue Angel... Oh yeah, and kill people too." or something.
In the land of the free and the home of the brave we sometimes say, better safe then sorry. Too many lawyers in this part of the world. That's a big problem. So safe then sorry goes a long way in the USofA, especially when it might involve the interactions with attorneys
precisely, which is what glort, sam, orljustin and I have said here and in dozens of other threads regarding releases and sales
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
Trust me, I'm not one of those cowering in fear. But I'm also not the type that would blatantly license content for commercial usage where the clear subject is a trademarked entity, especially backed by the government.
The trademark is not likely to be the issue.
Say you shoot someone in a Nike tee relaxing on a beach with a beautiful girl - is Nike going to take action? No way, they might even license your shot.
Say you shoot someone in the same tee hacking a vagrant to death with a big axe. Might Nike take offense - probably. They might pull out all legal stops to prevent you distributing widely but more likely they will buy you off.
Same with the government.
You can shoot whatever you like. It is how you license it that companies will take issue with. Were your 20 years of IP experience in licensing imagery?
A straight question deserves a straight answer.
I am a commercial VP for more than 20 years - global consumer companies and venture capital start-ups. Plus I run my own business for 10 years with some creative stuff. Does this involve licensing images? - sometimes, but not day-to-day and not by me unless it has gotten tricky. Most of my IP engagement is with technical patents where the money involved is much greater but the principles are broadly similar. Check my web site which contains almost no photos and gives a partial, accurate, and modest (they know me) cv for my corporate clients (www.chrisjohnson.nl). They hire me for my strategic marketing and not for my amateur photography.
My general advice would be to avoid trying to be "clever". Do not ask permission. Rely on your constitutional rights to act as a free citizen in a free society, acting in the public interest. Treat others fairly - including the government and people who organize events, and people you snap in the street. Make sure your core assets are protected - legal liability protection and be a small target. You will generally stay out of court.
Anybody running a business must anticipate legal actions, whether justified or not.
What do you do?