color calibrating monitor

marlinspike

Yes, this again, or rather, still. I still can't get this to work. Once upon a time I had it working, so there must be a way.
Here's the short version:
Computer runs Win XP Pro
Calibrator in question is a Eye One Display 2
Software: PS CS2

Let's say I make an image that is nothing more than the paint bucket set to 0R 0G 255B.
This will look blue (as it should) in the Windows Picture and Fax Viewer
This will look blue if I upload it to my smugmug page and load it in IE.
It looks lavender in Lightroom 1.4.
It looks lavender in CS2. If I set CS2 to proof colors, and use my monitor profile as the proof color, then it will look blue.

Why am I bothering asking again when nobody has ever been able to figure this out? Because I discovered something new today. If I profile my monitor, when I get to the final screen after it has made and applied the profile but before it has saved it to my hard disk, if I open CS2 the colors are accurate. If I then save the profile and close CS2 and open CS2 again, I'm back to 0R 0G 255B being lavender.

I feel like with this last piece of information, someone ought to be able to figure it out. Anybody?

Art Scott

Go to the source.....Ask Eye One or who ever owns them now........that is all the advice I have....Sorry.

BinaryFx

Images look correct when the application is non-colour managed. All it does is display the colour values (perhaps through the default system display profile?). Is your operating system really using the E1 profile, or is it instead using a canned profile like sRGB? What happens when you go to your monitor settings and ensure that the E1 profile is being used? Perhaps the OS is not using the E1 profile.

Images look incorrect when the application is colour managed, which I presume is using the E1 profile.

So it sounds like the profile is bad. If so, one would remake the profile and ensure that it is being used.

I don't have the E1, so perhaps Google for a tutorial to double check against or perhaps a member here can help you go through the process step by step.

Good luck,


Stephen Marsh

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~binaryfx/
http://prepression.blogspot.com/

marlinspike

I've remade the profile so many ties. The thing is, the colors in PS CS2 are correct if I set it to proof colors and set the monitor profile as the proof. I feel like this is some sort of double profiling issue (because the colors are correct when the profile is loaded on top of itself).

arodney

marlinspike wrote: »

Let's say I make an image that is nothing more than the paint bucket set to 0R 0G 255B.
This will look blue (as it should) in the Windows Picture and Fax Viewer
This will look blue if I upload it to my smugmug page and load it in IE.
It looks lavender in Lightroom 1.4.
It looks lavender in CS2. If I set CS2 to proof colors, and use my monitor profile as the proof color, then it will look blue.

Why am I bothering asking again when nobody has ever been able to figure this out?

Its easy. The Lavender appearance you see in Lightroom and CS2 are correct. They are ICC aware applications. The images you see in Windows Picture and Fax Viewer, IE are wrong, they are not color managed.

When you proof in CS2, asking to see the display profile, they match IE and the other stupid non ICC aware applications because that’s what this is supposed to be doing in the Proof Setup. You’re asking Photoshop “show me how my correct images will look, incorrect in non ICC aware apps”. And now they all match. They are all wrong.

Now its quite possible the display profile is wacked and the blue appears Lavender. But the bottom line is, ICC aware apps preview the numbers by first looking at the display profile, then by looking at the images embedded profile and creates a preview. Dumb non ICC aware app’s just send RGB values to the display. The know nothing about the display profile nor the embedded profile in your image.

marlinspike

Ok, see, this is why I have a hard time believing that.
There is no way in the world that 0R 0G 255B displayed properly looks purple.
On top of that, after the i1 calibrates my monitor, and it shows me the RGB lines of my now-profiled monitor, they look pretty much dead on
Finally, when I profile my monitor with the i1, that it has impacted the color of all of windows is apparent.

I get that you're saying this all means that my display profile must be wacked, but then why do the RGB lines look good, and why does the i1 unit pass the diagnostic test etc.

My theory is that something, perhaps the ATI Catalyst Control Center, is causing a profile of sorts to be applied to the monitor before while the i1 is in use.

arodney

The lines only show you the effect or not on the LUTs.

Its likely either you have a display or display profile issue. But the fact remains that with a proper ICC aware app using a good display profile, the results are correct and the facts remain that while you prefer the non ICC aware preview (because the display or display profile is the issue), those previews are not correct.

marlinspike

Ok, so those previews are not correct. But 0R 0G 255B looking lavender can't be correct either, right? That must be a true blue, no? So maybe my i1 is no good. I suppose it could be the monitor, but if it's the monitor why can it display blue at all when unprofiled but not when profiled?

arodney

marlinspike wrote: »

Ok, so those previews are not correct. But 0R 0G 255B looking lavender can't be correct either, right? That must be a true blue, no? So maybe my i1 is no good. I suppose it could be the monitor, but if it's the monitor why can it display blue at all when unprofiled but not when profiled?

Trash the profile start again and check that this isn’t some compatibility issue with the graphic card (this is Windows right)? Single display or dual? What are you using for the target calibration (luminance and white point)? V2 ICC profile right? Check the preferences. OR load a generic display profile. Previews different/better? Then you can finger point towards that display profile.

marlinspike

It's Windows XP. I'm using Native white point because it is a laptop, BUT it's a laptop with an S-IPS screen (IBM/early Lenovo used to offer these, it was something like a $500 option, but a fellow photographer who worked for them got me the hook up).
If I set the profile in Windows XP color management to a different profile, it does change the colors in PS CS2, so I guess that is doing something.

I don't know what a V2 ICC profile is.

The thing that really gets me is I once had it profiled properly, and I remember having difficulty but there was some trick to it that I forget. Then I went to Vista for a while and when I went back to XP I couldn't figure it out again.

arodney

marlinspike wrote: »

It's Windows XP. I'm using Native white point because it is a laptop, BUT it's a laptop with an S-IPS screen (IBM/early Lenovo used to offer these, it was something like a $500 option, but a fellow photographer who worked for them got me the hook up).
If I set the profile in Windows XP color management to a different profile, it does change the colors in PS CS2, so I guess that is doing something.

I don't know what a V2 ICC profile is.

The thing that really gets me is I once had it profiled properly, and I remember having difficulty but there was some trick to it that I forget. Then I went to Vista for a while and when I went back to XP I couldn't figure it out again.

There should be a preference in the software for V2 or V4 generated profiles.

So when you were on Vista, and this all worked, it was the same display? Or you went back to XP as well as moving to a different system and display?

Depending on the display technology, you may have issues with the Colorimeter, the reason I’m asking about the display itself. LED backlight displays could be problematic with the EyeOne Display-2 as opposed to something like a Spectrophotometer (ColorMunki). If however, on the other OS with the same display you got good results, that’s not the issue. Being a Mac guy, you’ll have to figure out what that old fix was to make things right. Bottom line, you’ve got some issue with how this profile is being built or used.

You disabled all gamma loaders right?

marlinspike

Same computer always. I had XP, and I had this color thing working on XP after figuring out whatever the trick was that I can't remember. I went to Vista and I seem to recall it working there too, but it's been a while since I went back to XP, so I can't say for sure. It's only ever since going back to XP that I haven't been able to get it right. I'm thinking this ATI control center that comes with the later drivers might be my issue, it has gamma sliders which to me says it's a gamma loader too. Maybe if I could find an older version of the driver...

Though I guess the first step is to try my i1 on someone else's computer and see if it works for them.

arodney

marlinspike wrote: »

I'm thinking this ATI control center that comes with the later drivers might be my issue, it has gamma sliders which to me says it's a gamma loader too.

There can be no “gamma loader” or any LUTs loading other than the LUTs in the profile you build.

marlinspike

Well, I got my new compact laptop today and calibrated its monitor and the calibration came out good, so it's not the i1.
Then I noticed that my bigger laptop's screen is yellowy and dim, something that definitely wasn't the case when new. I guess after 4 years even the S-IPS screen starts to tank.