Help a newbie process these?

jandrewnelson

Someone explain this to me like I'm a three year old. I like the attached shots, but I want to eliminate the noise etc. How exactly do I do this?

Thanks!

Jerry Nelson
www.meesoon.smugmug.com



and

r3t1awr3yd

A quick way to eliminate noise at night is to use a speedlight

divamum

OP, while the above response is flippant, there's truth in it - if you don't want noisy shots and you're shooting in the dark, you need to increase the amount of light reaching the sensor either by opening up your aperture/slowing shutter speed, increasing ISO, or adding external light sources (sometimes all of the above!). So the suggestion to use a flash for future night situations like this is reasonable.

When you lift the brightness/exposure of an underexposed shot in post you will almost ALWAYS get visible noise, so the best way to avoid noise is to get a good exposure to start with. However, that's not always possible and sometimes you have get whatever shot you can, and then clean them up in post.

- you can use the noise reduction function in your existing software. So if you use LR, for instance, check out the "detail" section and play with the sliders. PS and the ACR bridge also have NR sections. This is easier if you shoot raw than jpg, but I believe that the NR sliders in LR will also work on jpgs (anybody?)
- use an external noise editor such as noiseninja, noiseware, topaz denoise or others. There's a free edition of noiseware which is a great program and can be found here
- convert to black and white. Sometimes a noisy shot which looks terrible in noisy colour is hugely improved in BW.

HTH!

ETA: fwiw, I absolutely LOVE the first shot as is. Yes, it's noisy, but on that one it really looks "atmospheric" to me.

chrisjohnson

It looks like your ISO is too high.

Maybe you need a better camera or better lens. Maybe you should use flash. Maybe you should just make a simple adjustment. Great ideas for a photo which is the main thing.

Some data on the settings and kit you used would be helpful.

jandrewnelson

divamum wrote: »

- you can use the noise reduction function in your existing software. So if you use LR, for instance, check out the "detail" section and play with the sliders. PS and the ACR bridge also have NR sections. This is easier if you shoot raw than jpg, but I believe that the NR sliders in LR will also work on jpgs (anybody?)
- use an external noise editor such as noiseninja, noiseware, topaz denoise or others. There's a free edition of noiseware which is a great program and can be found here
- convert to black and white. Sometimes a noisy shot which looks terrible in noisy colour is hugely improved in BW.

HTH!

ETA: fwiw, I absolutely LOVE the first shot as is. Yes, it's noisy, but on that one it really looks "atmospheric" to me.

Thanks! I do have NoiseNinja, but have never really figured out how to best use it. Where can I find EZ lessons?

jandrewnelson

goldenballs wrote: »

It looks like your ISO is too high.

Maybe you need a better camera or better lens. Maybe you should use flash. Maybe you should just make a simple adjustment. Great ideas for a photo which is the main thing.

Some data on the settings and kit you used would be helpful.

Shooting with a Canon EOS20D. Only camera I have and can't afford to upgrade. But thanks anyway!

zoomer

Change that first one to a black and white and that is a winner. Nice shot.

r3t1awr3yd

I didn't mean to sound flippant at all but I know if I had shot the picture, I would have beat the piss out of myself yelling at myself about settings or why I didn't think to use a speedlight or SOMETHING. Some greater light source that would have helped. You can't shoot in the dark and all we're doing is recording light... *shrugs*

Sorry if I offended. I was just being honest. If you saw what I carried in my backpack, you'd understand, I've shot too many hundreds of photos that couldn't be saved to find myself with my pants down any more often than necessary.
-Wally

EDIT: I don't often resort to saying get a camera that can handle amazingly dimly lit shots or get a better billion dollar lens that can see ants in the dark. Usually the most simple answers are the best. I carry reflectors just for times like this. Sometimes you just need a LITTLE extra light. Don't have a reflector, buy a $.49 sheet of construction paper. Use a found silver garbage can lid. Something. *now feeling guilty*

jandrewnelson

r3t1awr3yd wrote: »

Sorry if I offended. I was just being honest.

Nope...no offense taken. Thanks for the input though. I wish I had a few dollars to get more gear, but all I have is a Canon 20D with a 18-55 lens. Oh well, one day I'll be able to afford a flash, another lens or two etc. Just trying to learn. Please feel free to take a look at my site, www.journeyamerica.org and look at any of the shots and tell me how to improve.

Thanks and blessings
Jerry Nelson

r3t1awr3yd

jandrewnelson wrote: »

Nope...no offense taken. Thanks for the input though. I wish I had a few dollars to get more gear, but all I have is a Canon 20D with a 18-55 lens. Oh well, one day I'll be able to afford a flash, another lens or two etc. Just trying to learn. Please feel free to take a look at my site, www.journeyamerica.org and look at any of the shots and tell me how to improve.

Thanks and blessings
Jerry Nelson

Screw dollars and gear. I started shooting three years ago with a D50 and 28-90 piece of junk film camera lens. You're gear is a tool. Your art has little to do with the tool you're using and more to do with how you're using your tool. (if that makes any sense lol).

I'm not joking about cheap solutions either. Let your creativity be your guide. I'm not joking when I say I use cardboard or trash can lids for reflectors lol. I've used a lot of "junk" to produce what my mind sees. So don't feel limited by funds or gear.

Our internet at work is slow as trash (gov't) so I'll check the pics when I get home.

r3t1awr3yd

Oh, also. If you DO find yourself falling into $100, I recommend the nifty fifty. Greatest decision I ever made early on when it came to low and medium lighting situations. The 50mm f/1.8 has a huge aperture for situations such as this. Those extra couple of stops can be a godsend.

jandrewnelson

r3t1awr3yd wrote: »

Oh, also. If you DO find yourself falling into $100, I recommend the nifty fifty. Greatest decision I ever made early on when it came to low and medium lighting situations. The 50mm f/1.8 has a huge aperture for situations such as this. Those extra couple of stops can be a godsend.

Nifty-fifty?

chrisjohnson

The 20D can also handle highish ISO, so unless you have it set wrong the 20D is not the problem. Which lens are you using - is it fast enough? The 18-55 you mention has (I believe) only a 3,5 - 5,6 aperture max which is bit small for this kind of work without a flash.

Could be your meter is overcompensating for the reflected light, spotlight. Manual settings might work best. You need ISO 800, shutter speed as low as you can hold steady, and let the aperture fall where it falls. Still maybe a bit dark but less noise.

Telling your settings/kit used to take these shots will help a lot.

r3t1awr3yd

jandrewnelson wrote: »

Nifty-fifty?

Yup. 50mm f/1.8 lens. Cheap. Fast. Efficient. (great bokeh too to boot!)

jandrewnelson

goldenballs wrote: »

Telling your settings/kit used to take these shots will help a lot.

OK, here they are. I hope this is what you're asking for.


Aperture value
4.97086
Exif color space
Uncalibrated
Custom rendered
0
Date-time created
2010:06:02 21:59:17
Date-time digitized
2010:06:02 21:59:17
Exposure bias
-2
Exposure mode
0
Exposure program
4
Exposure time
1/13 sec
F stop
5.6
Flash
16
Focal length
55
ISO speed ratings
1600
Metering mode
5
Orientation
8
Scene capture type
0
Shutter speed
1/13 sec
User comment

White balance
0

r3t1awr3yd

Just by changing to 18mm and getting closer to the guy, you can gain what, a stop and a half?

jandrewnelson

r3t1awr3yd wrote: »

Just by changing to 18mm and getting closer to the guy, you can gain what, a stop and a half?

How does that work? I understand about going to 18mm and getting closer, but how does that gain a stop and a half.

Blessings and thanks

r3t1awr3yd

3.5-5.6 aperture right?

jandrewnelson

r3t1awr3yd wrote: »

3.5-5.6 aperture right?

Er, ah...mmmm, I THINK so

basflt

r3t1awr3yd wrote: »

Just by changing to 18mm and getting closer to the guy, you can gain what, a stop and a half?

getting closer is not allways possible
you just dont climb a stage to put your camera into an artist's face

r3t1awr3yd

basflt wrote: »

getting closer is not allways possible
you just dont climb a stage to put your camera into an artist's face

Speak for yourself... (fortune favors the brave!! and occasionally the stupid lol)

pathfinder

NoiseWare will help a lot with the noise, but what's wrong with some noise now and then. I don't find the noise that objectionable in these images. NoiseWare has a free version for 8 bit jpgs I believe.

Yes, the 20D is not the latest and greatest DSLR in Canon's shed, but it still is a credible and capable tool.

Faster glass WILL help quite a bit - Even a 35 mm f2.0 is three full stops faster than f5.6 Those three stops really do matter and will help you shoot at lower ISOs. A 50mm f1.4 will get you one more full stop as well.. Look around for a used Tamron 28-75 f2.8. Great lens, very sharp, and two full stops faster than f5.6 Your kit lens is really not the right tool for night club shots.....

Reflectors - whether garbage can lids, or poster board are dirt cheap, and can get you one or two more stops as well.

Convert to B&W and raise the black point and a lot of the noise will disappear as well.

r3t1awr3yd

Let me follow my last post with the following omitted piece of information. I myself am a musician. I talk to a LOT of musicians. As long as you talk to them first, getting permission to get retarded is EASY. Musicians love to be shot.


(me shot by someone else with my own camera)

basflt

r3t1awr3yd wrote: »

Speak for yourself... (fortune favors the brave!! and occasionally the stupid lol)

yer right
but i assume this pic is taken and there wont be another concert
IMO question was how to solve in processing / edit the noise out
sorry if i dont got it right (language)

r3t1awr3yd

basflt wrote: »

yer right
but i assume this pic is taken and there wont be another concert
IMO question was how to solve in processing / edit the noise out
sorry if i dont got it right (language)

No, no. You're absolutely correct. I'm just trying to throw ideas at the OP to help avoid the situation in the future.

basflt

so ; editing out
i find NEAT IMAGE a nice tool
most image editors can rescue a bit ,
but it will never become like perfect

-offtopic?-
if one has no money ;
all tools can be found and downloaded
not legally , but still .................

jandrewnelson

basflt wrote: »

all tools can be found and downloaded
not legally , but still .................

MMmm...what is the URL to download lenses?

r3t1awr3yd

On a weird side note, if you decide to get serious with your photography, you'll need a legitimate copy of all of your software. I know it's fun to DL mysterious software but when you're trying to run a real business, you'll want real software giving your clients guilt-free pictures.

ckaspar

I have to second (or third) the 50mm 1.8. Killer lens. For $100 how can you go wrong? I was a little concerned when I bought mine thinking what kind of lens and I going to get for $100. Answer: The best $100 I have spent on camera gear. Save your pennies and get one. You will be more than pleased.

jandrewnelson

r3t1awr3yd wrote: »

On a weird side note, if you decide to get serious with your photography, you'll need a legitimate copy of all of your software. I know it's fun to DL mysterious software but when you're trying to run a real business, you'll want real software giving your clients guilt-free pictures.

I know what you mean. That's why I use GIMP (open source as you know) and Noise Ninja (which I did buy at the end of last year).

Thanks
Jerry Nelson
www.meesoon.smugmug.com