Eastern Front adversaries

squirl033

a couple more from the flight demo yesterday with the Bf109 and the Polikarpov I-16, two fighters that faced each other in the skies over Russia in the early days of WWII... 40D, 100-400 @ 400mm, various settings...

black mamba

Looking at these photos, Rocky, is it any wonder that the Germans so easily decimated the Russians in the skies during the earlier stages of the conflict. Only late in the war did the Russian equipment, and their pilots, reach a par with the Germans.

Nice work on capturing these planes. I'm always amazed at how much smaller the combat fighters of WW11 are compared to the current crop.

Tom

squirl033

black mamba wrote: »

Looking at these photos, Rocky, is it any wonder that the Germans so easily decimated the Russians in the skies during the earlier stages of the conflict. Only late in the war did the Russian equipment, and their pilots, reach a par with the Germans.

Nice work on capturing these planes. I'm always amazed at how much smaller the combat fighters of WW11 are compared to the current crop.

Tom

actually, Tom, the I-16 was about on par with the Bf109 in terms of performance up to 10,000 feet (the open cockpit limited them to relatively low altitudes), and was more maneuverable and rugged. the real advantage the Germans had was much more experienced pilots, veterans of battles from the Spanish Civil War through the Battle of Britain.

yeah, the size of these little guys is really amazing, compared to, say, an F-18... then again, considering what the modern fighters are asked to do, and all the stuff the military tries to hang all over them, that added size isn't really surprising.

black mamba

There's no question, Rocky, that what you say about the Germans having a huge advantage in the level of pilot skills ( at the start of the conflict ) is absolutely true. And, no doubt, that single aspect accounted for more of the success of the German fliers than any other consideration.

However,the German plane enjoyed a significant top speed advantage ( over 60 MPH ), better rate-of-climb numbers, and higher service ceiling ( as you point out ). Given pilots of equal capabilities, the 109 is taking the I-16 in the vast majority of encounters. Considering the competence level weighing in on the German side, those early days were a slaughter.

I'm looking forward to more great shots,

Tom

squirl033

black mamba wrote: »

There's no question, Rocky, that what you say about the Germans having a huge advantage in the level of pilot skills ( at the start of the conflict ) is absolutely true. And, no doubt, that single aspect accounted for more of the success of the German fliers than any other consideration.

However,the German plane enjoyed a significant top speed advantage ( over 60 MPH ), better rate-of-climb numbers, and higher service ceiling ( as you point out ). Given pilots of equal capabilities, the 109 is taking the I-16 in the vast majority of encounters. Considering the competence level weighing in on the German side, those early days were a slaughter.

I'm looking forward to more great shots,

Tom

Tom,

actually, the 109E-3 was only about 25mph faster than the I-16, but in terms of overall performance, it offered advantages in diving speed (well over 430 mph), and modestly better rate of climb (3100 ft/min vs 2900 for the I-16). the German pilots quickly learned to use the 109's superior altitude and diving speed to conduct slashing attacks on the hapless Russians, who had less than half the 109's 36,000-ft service ceiling. later 109 models, like the F/G, were significantly faster than the E, upwards of 370 mph in level flight at sea level, and over 400 at 20,000 ft for the 109G. of course, by the time the 109G's hit the front lines, the I-16s - those that remained, anyway - had pretty much been retired.

DaddyO

Hehe. :-) both conversations have good rate of climb. dive actual. performance rated.
pictures sweet.