PLEASE Help... What to tell my partner?

JayClark79

OK my partner was flown to Punta Cana and put up in a very luxiours room for 4 days to cover this wedding and the events around it.... Please view the pictures especially the formal ones and give me your honest opinion...

My honest opinion is... WAY WAY over exposed, shouldnt be showing the client these picture the way they are... and embarassed. Tell me its not just me!

Formals
http://www.ambientmoonlight.com/ClientFolders/Meggen-and-Kevin/Formals/12627718_rGzyJ#907356274_9nwAd

Ceremony
http://www.ambientmoonlight.com/ClientFolders/Meggen-and-Kevin/MeggenCeremony/12621143_gTh44#906723424_6xsZZ

Blurmore

Yeah they are over exposed and too magenta...but WHOAH on the - clarity Batman...looks like diffuse glow gone berserk. I wouldn't be happy, but I could see how a client COULD find these appealing. Most of the time clients don't really get nit picky over exposure, they like what they like.

JayClark79

Ya he has an addiction for the vibrance slider... I think his "scenic" pictures are awsome.... He just doesnt know anything about post processing for skin tones... he used to turn everybody orange... now they are redish purple...... I sent him a text saying

"I am going to be painfully honest.. I think you need to password protect this gallery or hide it until we have erased or fixed the exposure in these shots, I will help you if you still have the RAW files"

ziggy53

Fleshtones are pretty good exposure but the whites are pretty well clipped. I would suggest re-processing the formals from RAW with a lower contrast and both Recovery and a Tone Curve - Point (Medium Contrast), pulling down the highlight to form a "knee". That should bring back some detail in the whites as well as bring back some of the too-bright skin in some cases.

Skin tones might also need a little color work as they seem a little sunburned (high in Magenta).

Sam

OK, I am missing something! All I see is the home page. Where are the wedding images your talking about?

Sam

VayCayMom

Sam wrote: »

OK, I am missing something! All I see is the home page. Where are the wedding images your talking about?

Sam

me too, maybe they already made them a private gallery???

mpaulie

I can't see the pics, but... if this person is your partner, I'd hope you'd have a good enough relationship where you can give each other your honest opinion.

JayClark79

Ya he took them down since he covered it on his own he doesnt want it to be on "OUR" website So he has moved them to his own site.. Which i cant get a link from right now for some reason... Whats more embarassing is there were pics posted today by another person that attended the wedding with their own DSLR and his pictures are better... He doesnt have anywhere near as many as my partner has... but the ones he does have atleast arent blown out, and the people have natural skin tones

mpriest13

JayClark79 wrote: »

Ya he took them down since he covered it on his own he doesnt want it to be on "OUR" website So he has moved them to his own site.. Which i cant get a link from right now for some reason... Whats more embarassing is there were pics posted today by another person that attended the wedding with their own DSLR and his pictures are better... He doesnt have anywhere near as many as my partner has... but the ones he does have atleast arent blown out, and the people have natural skin tones

Composition is good. Exposure is ok...a little hot but not horrific. The post procession is awful...plain and simple. Just awful. Don't show them to your clients.

ian408

No offense but you just threw your partner under the bus. If you'd have put the pictures up and requested comments w/o discussing who took them or where they stayed, that would have been far more professional.

Sam

Jay,

While we are at this I noticed on thing on your partners website that I would get rid of in a hurry!

I will paraphrase here: On the wedding price page it states that the clients photos will be posted / hosted / displayed on the web forever.

Forever is, we hope, a long time. This could bite you big time.

Not to mention I can't figure out how you can possible shoot a wedding with 2 photographers, tons of 4X6's wedding album, DVD, and web hosting in perpetuity for $1200.00. Was there an engagement session in there as well?

Sam

JayClark79

Sam I had mentioned that to him a while ago, he is supposed to of changed it to 2 years... and also we/he is working on new packages.. your right we cant afford to do it at 1200...we did 2 at this price and instead of putting new packages together, he is worried about the website..... he wants to switch from smugmug to zenfolio... i dont know what his problem is... when I say partner.. he is also married to my wifes aunt... our styles are way different... its actually starting to become very frustrating, and i can almost see the end before we even get off the ground. UGGGGGHHHHH

Moogle Pepper

JayClark79 wrote: »

Sam I had mentioned that to him a while ago, he is supposed to of changed it to 2 years... and also we/he is working on new packages.. your right we cant afford to do it at 1200...we did 2 at this price and instead of putting new packages together, he is worried about the website..... he wants to switch from smugmug to zenfolio... i dont know what his problem is... when I say partner.. he is also married to my wifes aunt... our styles are way different... its actually starting to become very frustrating, and i can almost see the end before we even get off the ground. UGGGGGHHHHH

Then, I am going to be blunt, drop him as a partner. If your styles are way different and it is becoming more of a hassle to be his partner, then your business venture isn't going to hold water.

zoomer

Irreconcileable differences.
Plus you will never make any money if you have to split it with a partner.

Sam

Jay,

Your on the right track here, listen to your gut. Remain friends, help each other, share information, etc., but shoot on your own.

No matter how hard you think it will be to take action today, it will be harder tomorrow.

Now if I could just get the politicians to lift their snout out of the public trough and understand this...........................

Sam

JayClark79

well yesturday I created a Jay Clark-Photography facebook page and posted some pictures from weddings that we did together... but I only posted the pictures that I took... I figured I took the pictures, surely i can put them on my own facebook page... I already have jayclarkphotography.com with the exact same pictures on it.... Well this morning I got a text from me telling me to remove the pictures from the wedding.... I told him "They are pictures I took, this is my work... im advertising myself out there for all aspects of photography, and hopping to work with other wedding photogs to gain more experiance".... well that must of set a bomb because I got a text back saying "fine then" and another text 2 minutes later saying maybe we should stop working together... then another saying "if you can't tell im very pissed off"... so i sent him a message back saying he was WAY over reacting... then i emailed him this long thing saying that though i am showing off what i can do on facebook... that if i were lucky enough to get a wedding contact from it that i would still direct them to OUR site.. and that i wasnt trying to do a wedding on my own..... he said its a conflict of intrest and a few other things.... so things are definently up in the air at this point.....

I dont feel i have the experiance to shoot a wedding on my own... this is why im trying to work with other local pros... for some reason he took it as me trying to steal our own clients... UGH

JayClark79

Now a really good question is why are pictures that I took at weddings... On HIS personal site.... and also listed for purchase... They are also listed for purchase on OUR site...... The pics that I took at these weddings that are on MY personal site are not listed for sale.... and I only have my pictures posted there.... Soooo whats up with that?

Seefutlung

Dude- I hate to say this but, (the big but), ... in nearly every single shot taken by your partner in Punta Cana, there is a problem ... some are minor some are significant ... but a problem nonetheless.

I've just finished reviewing his work ... and it has me a bit pumped up because (assuming) he probably charged the bride and groom ... probably filled up his tank every day and night at their expense ... and delivered a crappy product.

To my eye ... that was not a professional job ... one pays a professional to avoid problems (i.e. exposure, soft images, noise, plain weird processing, not plumb, un-appealing images, et cetera).

I used to be a photo journalist ... a pro-fes-sional ... I won't shoot wedding for my friends because I don't feel I'm qualified to do so ... I always suggest they hire a pro-fes-sional because a pro-fes-sional will make them look good/pretty in all the various set-ups and stages. Moi? ... I'm not trained for that ... I not trained to manipulate the people or the lighting to get shots of the people looking their at their very best. Yeah, I can record and document the event ... I'll get impromptu shots that the wedding guy wouldn't even see ... but unless the bride and groom are good looking (and are keeping an eye on the camera at all times and reacting accordingly) ... you don't want me shooting a wedding. The point is that while I am a photog ... I'm not a wedding photog and I let those who request my services know that.

But that all about me ... about your partner ... he's not a photographer ... if he is a photographer then:
A) he didn't show it on this event; or
he is not a wedding photographer (see above)

He may be an aspiring photographer ... as such he should be embarrassed to pawn himself as a professional photographer and he needs to think about 'honor' if he received any money under the pretense of a professional wedding photographer.

Now to your last ^^^ question. Anyone who takes money for a product/service they cannot knowingly perform is a thief.

The defense rests.

Gary

Sam

Soooo whats up with that?

Boy Howdy, where to start?

First do you have anything in writing? I will assume you don't. What was your clearly articulated agreement?

From what I read I think the root cause of your issue / dispute here is you have one understanding where he has another.

I am assuming he booked the weddings and you shot with him. You mention our site, but is it his business site or both of yours? When an image is sold do split the profits or does he keep the profits? How were you paid for the weddings you shot?

If you are in business together I can understand his concern. If you were basically shooting as second then I don't.

Ether way, just as a courtesy I would have talked to him before creating a separate online entity to clarify what I was doing and why.

Without anything in writing, a clear agreed upon understanding, and / or evidence to the contrary you own the images you took, he owns the images he took. Now if you were in business together then nether would have a right to sell the images individually.

What ever you do don't put your clients in the middle!!

I am starting to shoot second at a few weddings, the guy I work for and I clearly articulated our agreement. Probably should have put it in writting, but we didn't. I may have confirmed it in an email, don't remember.

This agreement is pretty simple, he is the primary photographer who has booked the wedding and is solely responsible to the client. I work for him for the wedding. He owns the copyright. I have use of the images I took for my own portfolio. I do not retain rights to sell any images. I will not violate this agreement. No problem.

Sam

ps: I just looked at "your Ambient Moon" site and it clearly indicates you are a business team. In that light I think you are in the wrong here. Again if he is a business partner and a relative you really need to communicate.

Sam

Sesfutlung posted: Dude- I hate to say this but, (the big but), ... in nearly every single shot taken by your partner in Punta Cana, there is a problem ... some are minor some are significant ... but a problem nonetheless.

How are you seeing / finding the images???

Sam

JayClark79

Our agreement is basically everything made is 50/50... there is no written agreement.... Neither one of us flat out owns the rights... We've done 4 weddings this year together... 2 he originally asked me to help him shoot, and the other 2 we booked together as ambientmoonlight.... the first 2 he more or less did as favors, he was not a wedding photographer prior to this.

We are supposed to split everything down the middle including prints.

OUR site is for selling prints...... He also has all his pics and some of mine on his personal site, which i have no way of monitoring sales... and oh by the way we havent had a single print purchase through our site yet... and im in the wrong?

JayClark79

Seefutlung lol for the punta cana wedding i dont believe he was paid... but he was flown out to punta cana, and put up in a room for 3-4 days for doing this... his wife also went (he paid the airfare) but she still got to stay in the room....

He traditionally is not a photographer of people.... He says he's fine art... he does have some good landscape stuff on his site.. but when it comes to pictures of people he is completely lost but he knows it..... i have offered to try and fix the images from punta cana for nothing and all he says is he doesnt want to put that with OUR work... but you are absolutely right the pictures from punta cana are embarassing.

JayClark79

Sam here is the collection of ALL of his work from this bride... the engagement shots and all... click wedding for the wedding pics
http://parsh.zenfolio.com/meggenscollection

Sam

Jay,

Yes I think you did wrong. Not out of malice, but still you and Parsh did have a wedding business together, and any actions with regard to weddings should be a joint effort.

Not sure how you could have your weddings, his weddings, and your together weddings.

Plus your styles are totally different.

It's kinda like going to Las Vegas, getting drunk, waking up married and finding out you have absolutely nothing in common.

Time for an annulment.

Sam

FedererPhoto

There are so many other good photographers out there in every style -- there is no need to work with someone you don't mesh well with.

AroundDWorld

Also I think you both need to organize yourselves better so you are not in the photos he takes.......

Honestly, I don't see your business together as a good thing.......