Pondering a 7D, but....
I've been looking at the Canon 7D, as my 20D is getting up there in frames shot...well it's actually been up there for a long time now, but it's still holding it's own.
Anyway, the 7D feels good in my hands and I like some the new features...19 AF points, 100% viewfinder, just to name a couple.
What I don't care for is the HD video...that to me is just a gimmick. I don't like combining the two in an SLR. I like photography, not videogrophy.
Well a friend recently purchased the 7D...hated it. It wouldn't focus where he wanted it to...seemed to search and search, even on motionless objects. My friend took it back, got a 50D instead.
Has anyone here shot both the 7D and the 50D, and is there anything on the 7D, besides the HD video, that makes it worth almost twice as much a 50D?
Has anyone had problems with the AF system on the 7D?
I know I could search and search, but I've done so much searching / reading I decided to just ask.
Thanks in advance.
Anyway, the 7D feels good in my hands and I like some the new features...19 AF points, 100% viewfinder, just to name a couple.
What I don't care for is the HD video...that to me is just a gimmick. I don't like combining the two in an SLR. I like photography, not videogrophy.
Well a friend recently purchased the 7D...hated it. It wouldn't focus where he wanted it to...seemed to search and search, even on motionless objects. My friend took it back, got a 50D instead.
Has anyone here shot both the 7D and the 50D, and is there anything on the 7D, besides the HD video, that makes it worth almost twice as much a 50D?
Has anyone had problems with the AF system on the 7D?
I know I could search and search, but I've done so much searching / reading I decided to just ask.
Thanks in advance.
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For me, no competition: the 7d wins hands down. The 50d is a very capable camera, but the 7d's handling, autofocus, built-in flash commander and customizability are just wonderful.
I've had no problems at all with the AF (did your friend have a faulty unit?) - quite the contrary in fact. It is lightning fast and, as long as I do my job right (ie use the right focus point and put it where I need it), has been extremely accurate and turned out exceptional shots.
The added resolution is very helpful at times when you need to shoot looser and then crop.
Here's a thread with further discussion (and some real life photo examples) - there are some other fairly recent ones so if you go back a few pages you can probably find them fairly easily.
Btw, I got my 7d as a refurb from Adorama for 1399 including shipping. Turned up in indistinguishable-from-new condition (and comes with a 1year Adorama warrantee). I've been 100% happy with it so far.
He didn't keep it long enough to know if it was him or the camera, really.
I was in that link early on....didn't realize it had grown....ok, so I forgot about it all together....
I'm going to go give it (the other thread) a looksee....
Thanks.
I tried to figure out what (if anything) he may have been doing wrong with the 7D, but since I coudln't actually be there with him, I couldn't. I really wish I had been able to get with him and try it myself, but that didn't happen.
Do either of you use the HD video? My friend said it took alot of PC power to process the vids.
I really liked the look and feel of the 7D, when I tried it at the store, but hearing about focus issues worried me.
I shoot alot of action stuff, so having good AF is very important to me.
Without knowing your friend's setup and the scene situations I cannot comment on what might have happened other than to say I do not believe his experience is typical. I believe that if you should decide to research the 2 cameras' performance user reviews you would find that the general consensus is very favorable of the 7D over the 50D.
The 50D would still be a considerable improvement and upgrade over a 20D, so it would not be a bad choice at all. I think it happens to be a remarkable value and a good overall performer.
Both the 7D and the 50D really benefit from an external AF assist light in poor light.
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Not being there when my friend was shooting didn't allow me to see if it was him or the camera.
I've been reading quite a few reviews, watching the Canon vids and reading on here, and when my friend had complaints about the 7D I told him it went against everything I had been reading....which really had me
My 20D has been very good to me, taking all the abuse I dish out without any complaints or problems. I've been waiting for a significant upgrade to show it's self, and the 7D looked like it might be it.....kind of still does.
I do have to ponder the thought of buying two 50Ds instead of one 7D though...I'd love to have my primary and my secondary cameras to be the same thing, and I can't afford two 7Ds.
If anyone has comments or examples of the HD vid from the 7D I wouldn't mind hearing them and seeing them.
Using identical cameras really can make a difference when you are under the gun and don't want to have to "switch gears" in the middle of a stressful event. In a way it can make you a better photographer by allowing you to concentrate on the dynamics of the shoot and a little less on the mechanics. It can also simplify lens and accessory selection, allowing a single grip to be shared, for instance. (Not really sure why anyone would do that but it would work.)
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I can understand how someone who is used to the 50D could pick up the 7D and not like it at first, as that was my first impression when I got mine as well. It took me a couple afternoons studying the manual, watching soem Canon vidioes online, and learning to use the 7D to appreciate it, and to prefer it to the 50D AF system. So don't let your friends experience influence you that much. They are both fine cameras, but the 7D offers much to prefer over the 50D. I still shoot with both of them, so they are both fine tools, but if I could have only one, it would be the 7D, hands down. Listen to Divamum.
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This is not mine but one of the best video productions shot with the Canon 7D and 5D MKII that I have seen:
http://vimeo.com/11285405
IMO video capable dSLRs are most suited for this type of "indie" video production and they do relatively poorly at more typical consumer video opportunities which are still better served by traditional camcorders.
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It'd be nice if I could swing two 7Ds........oh to dream.
(my jeep takes all of my money my photography doesn't.
How well does the flash controller work? I have a 580ex controlling several slaves and they seem to misfire. I just bought a microsync radio system, but it didn't seem to work consistently. It is going back tomorrow.
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It works fine within a small area if the camera and flash are line of sight. I have limited experience with cheap radio triggers where they always always work. With the 7D controller I have had to train myself to remember to rotate the base of the 580EX slave so that the infrared receiver points in the direction of the 7D, and if I don't notice that I have moved the 7D far enough behind the slave that it is out of view of the the 580EX receiver, I'm hosed.
I placed the 580 on a table behind a sofa this weekend and finally figured out that the reason it wasn't going off was because although the flash head was pointing where it should, the IR receiver on the bottom was blocked by the back of the sofa. I had to find a different place to put it.
I try to use the IR trigger as much as possible though because the E-TTL is s handy and I don't have to attach additional hardware to the camera and flash. When conditions prevent the IR from working right, I have to switch to the old cheap radio trigger and work in manual.
Great to hear
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I'm curious what you mean? Granted, I shoot single point, single shot on all the cameras I've used, so that's an xsi, 50d and now 7d, but the only thing different between the 7d and the others is how you change the focus "mode" (ie the multi function button to change *mode*, the joystick or wheel to change individual points) - have you found it different in other ways? The main difference I've noted is how much more *accurate* it is. The 50d was fine - and noticeably faster than the xsi - but the 7d has been another HUGE step forward.
Btw, a tip somebody mentioned in here was to use the button customization to link spot AF to the DOF preview button - I have, and it's a brilliant way to quickly access that focus mode for the occasional shot when it's necessary (and thanks to whoever mentioned that, because it's an ideal set up for me too!)
Josh, I've only used the flash controller indoors, so can't answer to long-range, outdoor use. Inside, however, it's worked first time every time. The menu is a little fiddy-er than just using my ste2 (I'm still figuring out how to use more than 2 groups because I haven't done that before with the ste2, which can only control 2), but it is GREAT to have it in the camera so even when I don't have the ste2 with me for some reason (or it's run out of battery, or I just can't be bothered to go and dig it out of the bag because I'm deep in the throes of shooting), the controller is *right there*. It's definitely a welcome inclusion.
Customer service ambassador indeed!
As for video, I love it. It is crystal clear and actually pretty easy to use. I do different things with it but a very typical use is when I'm standing in the dugout taking pics of a player at bat, I simply set my AF, then switch to video mode and press Start. Now I have a great video to use to check the player's swing or post on a website. The resulting .MOV file plays SOC in Windows in Media Player or easily loads into my Pinnacle software for editing.
Overall, I'm having a blast with the camera.
Here's a link to some pics I took the other night and day at a couple of games. The lighting could have been better. I use a 70-200 F/4 L lens, usually with the 1.4 teleconverter if there is decent light.
http://waygard33.smugmug.com/Sports/2010-Freshman-Summer-Baseball/12630751_TKgEL#907581414_B9ca7
Wayne in Oregon
I've got to say, looking at some of your original size ISO 200 shots, I was a bit disappointed with the grain at that speed. Seemed a bit grainier than my 20D.
How's ISO 100? Is everyone happy with the grain of the different ISOs?
Regarding noise, my pics are probably not the best examples for objective evaluation. They're not SOC and I tend to under expose. I can't recall exactly but on most pics, I did have to increase the exposure some amount. I also cropped all of the pictures and increased the Clarity in LR. Add to that my operator error and ... well, I just add to the difficulties.
I have read articles regarding the higher noise in the 7D and I've included a link below where it is compared to the 50D, 5D Mark II, and the D300. According to the article below, the 7D does more in camera sharpening but when all things are set equal, it fares better regarding noise.
http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_EOS_7D/noise_JPEG.shtml
For me, the greatest assets are the much improved AF and the 18 megapixels. I am able to swing and aim the camera quickly and get shots I could not get before. Then the size of the image allows me to crop considerably and still have a sharp image at reasonable sizes. A big improvement for me.
Wayne in Oregon
MPs still don't get me all excitited, the censor is only so big, and cramming more MPs on it doesn't always mean a better picture.
Thanks for all the replys, I'm going to keep reading.
Emphases mine - couldn't agree more
Also, Jeffro - in that thread I linked, there are several shots of mine at high ISOs - I'm really not sure I can say more than those pictures show. Yes, there's some noise, but it cleans up fantastically well and is WAY more useable than shots taken with the xsi or 50d at lower ISO ratings. Works for me!
That's a very true statement, and yes, there is a lot of "hype" about "MegaPixels".
Done well, more pixels do lend to more accurate color tonality and more detail. In a Bayer chip design, used in virtually all modern dSLRs except Sigma, there is only a single color sample at each photosite (pixel). The full-color information comes from polling and interpolating the color informations from nearby photosites so that what we see is a "calculated guestimate" of the original image color at that site. Likewise for the luminance information.
The larger the aggregate sample, the more accurate the output (assuming the same noise floor).
So how do you accurately measure the noise floor? Fortunately, you don't have to. DXOMark has done their own studies, from RAW and using their own RAW converter, and their results show that the Canon 50D and 7D sensors do a remarkably similar job in both SNR and DR. (Signal to Noise Ratio and Dynamic Range, respectively.)
The 50D does show as slightly better than the 7D at lowest ISO for SNR, but the margin is so small that I have to believe that both measurement error and sample variation could explain the difference. Likewise for the DR where the 7D shows as slightly better. I doubt that anyone could see either difference in a print sample from both cameras.
DPReview said (comparing the 7D to the 50D):
"Despite its higher nominal resolution and therefore smaller pixel-pitch, the EOS 7D produces a marginally cleaner image than its sister model at higher ISOs, but crucially also manages to retain some more image detail."
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ok, like if the 50d is 1
and the 5dmii is 10
the 7d is is. . .
assuming you are shooting at 6400ISO in a typically dark church.
keep it simple for the slow part of the class!
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Andy, myself, and others have shown that ISO 1600 prints from a 40D, 50D, 7D, 5D ( that are not under exposed) can look very nice even at 13 x 19 inches in size.
If the noise is an issue, NoiseWear, LR3, ACR can all help subdue it.
Most of the disturbing noise I see in images is due to under exposure, not ISO.
To compare these modern images with 35mm film shot at ISO 400 is quite dramatic. The noise in ISO 400 film was bunches and bunches worse, than modern DSLRs like the 7D at ISO 1600. It is a fact.
The real issue for both the 50D and the 7D is lens quality - the pixel pitch really demands first rate glass. They both will clearly demonstrate the weakness of less than first rate glass.
Both the 50D and the 7D are head and shoulders better cameras than a 20D ever hoped to be. I have 2 20Ds in my closet, so don't think that I am just biased. They were great in their day, but it has clearly passed.
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DXOMark says that the 50D is slightly better than the 7D from their measurements.
DPReview, as well as many DGrinners, say that the 7D is visually slightly better than the 50D.
The discrepancy might be real or imagined. I suspect that the 7D may be "visually" improved for noise, possibly taking advantage of how the human eye/brain "sees" noise, i.e. clever image processing may be "hiding" the noise by making it less obvious. I suspect this is done in a couple of different ways but you said to keep it simple.
At ant rate I don't think that the difference in noise is so dramatic between the 50D and 7D to be a purchase decision. The 7D is a much improved camera in other ways.
The 5D MKII is "much" better than either the 50D or 7D with regard to high-ISO noise. This is mostly because of the larger imager. I mean there really is no fair comparison. The 5D MKII is at least 1 stop better and many folks see more improvement than that. The 5D MKII is actually capable of imaging in light that its AF section struggles with, making the AF section weaker than the High-ISO capture capabilities.
The Canon 1D MKIV is, in my mind, the most high-performance imaging machine in the Canon lineup and extremely balanced in all shooting aspects. That is the camera I lust after. If you give that camera the correct lenses it can cover almost any photographic application.
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I agree, and that's why I want (need) a new camera. I'm sure more and more photos shot with the 7D will be appearing through out this forum, so I'll just have to do a lot of surfin.
On a side note, do you think the days for my Digital Rebel have passed too? :giggle
I started with a Rebel XT, and after I bought my 7D kept the Rebel for my backup camera. Then I noticed that if I put a short fast prime on it, it's actually a fun compact little thing. So when I want to take pics that aren't critical and I don't want to consume 20MB per frame, or when there's going to be plenty of light (summer days), or for a situation where I don't want to put the expensive 7D at risk, I take the Rebel XT. Still takes pics as good as when it was new...I'll probably hang on to it until all its 5-year-old batteries no longer take a charge.
Interesting, Ziggy.
When the 50d first came out I hear a lot of complaints that it wasn't much better than the 4d as far as noise--some people said worse. When the 7d came out, I heard it is was much much better.
I shoot with the 50d now. from what you are saying, it doesn't make any sense to trade up unless I could get at least to the 5dmii and the the 7d would be only a minor improvement.
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