how much more difficult is manual flash?

joshhuntnm

I have had a lot of trouble with flashes not firing and am considering going to a radio system. from what I can tell, you can save quite a bit of money with a non ttl system and shoot manual. Is this a lot more trouble? did you end up with a lot more throw aways?

tenoverthenose

It's much easier and far more consistent (ie, manual) than ettl. Once you set your flash it stays at the same power. If you know what you are doing (know your equipment), you can move VERY quickly because everything is predictable. You will learn very quickly how much flash power is needed for a given situation.

OTH, I love my new PW's. They also me manual, ettl if I want, rear curtain sync, and HSS. This opens a lot of other opportunities once you know how to use them.

joshhuntnm

tenoverthenose wrote: »

It's much easier and far more consistent (ie, manual) than ettl. Once you set your flash it stays at the same power. If you know what you are doing (know your equipment), you can move VERY quickly because everything is predictable. You will learn very quickly how much flash power is needed for a given situation.

OTH, I love my new PW's. They also me manual, ettl if I want, rear curtain sync, and HSS. This opens a lot of other opportunities once you know how to use them.

do you use the mini or the flex on camera?

zoomer

I don't use manual so I may be full of it.
I believe that fast moving situations like weddings require use of TTL.
However when doing the portraits in a consistent lighting situation I believe manual would work very well.

For me I use TTL with spot meter and always focus on a face which give me pretty consistent flash.
If someone were to focus/meter on clothing such as the black suit and white dress....then you would be herding cats as your exposures would be all over the place.
Matrix metering might yield more consistent metering but I never use it so can't speak to that.

tenoverthenose

joshhuntnm wrote: »

do you use the mini or the flex on camera?

I use the mini on camera, but if I use two bodies I will put a flex on camera with no problem. But since I always need at least one transmitter, I took advantage of the small size.

The best part with this combo is that you can easily go between ettl and manual power, unlike my experience with radio poppers.

mmmatt

tenoverthenose wrote: »

It's much easier and far more consistent (ie, manual) than ettl. Once you set your flash it stays at the same power. If you know what you are doing (know your equipment), you can move VERY quickly because everything is predictable. You will learn very quickly how much flash power is needed for a given situation.

10, would you say this is true for the entire day or just for static subjects using off camera? Are you maintaining a consistent distance with your light stand to subject in order to minimize the math or just working with a mental meter and adjusting things based on experience? (Reason 3,452 of why I would like to follow Pat around for a wedding or two!) FME on-camera manual is really tough with non-static subjects and I'm compelled to use my aperture setting in accordance with distance to subject instead of using it for desired DOF and ambient/flash balance like I do when shooting ettl.

Josh is it just flashes not firing or are there exposure issues you are having when using ettl? Are you sure you have your flashes set properly as slave/master and have your ratios set right? The Canon IR system is anything but dependable so certainly it could just be that for non-fire issues. Bright ambient seems to be the typical culprit and is even worse if you are trying to use an umbrella.


Matt

joshhuntnm

mmmatt wrote: »

10, would you say this is true for the entire day or just for static subjects using off camera? Are you maintaining a consistent distance with your light stand to subject in order to minimize the math or just working with a mental meter and adjusting things based on experience? (Reason 3,452 of why I would like to follow Pat around for a wedding or two!) FME on-camera manual is really tough with non-static subjects and I'm compelled to use my aperture setting in accordance with distance to subject instead of using it for desired DOF and ambient/flash balance like I do when shooting ettl.

Josh is it just flashes not firing or are there exposure issues you are having when using ettl? Are you sure you have your flashes set properly as slave/master and have your ratios set right? The Canon IR system is anything but dependable so certainly it could just be that for non-fire issues. Bright ambient seems to be the typical culprit and is even worse if you are trying to use an umbrella.


Matt

well, the question is a little like if I said I lost something and you ask me where I lost it. ;-)

I am not completely sure why they are misfiring. I think it has to do with distance/ line of sight issues. they don't misfire all the time, so I am pretty sure I have the slave/master deal set right. Like, i was playing with them at home the other day (read: small room) and I couldn't get them to misfire. but, in the field the seem to misfire quite regularly.

tenoverthenose

mmmatt wrote: »

10, would you say this is true for the entire day or just for static subjects using off camera? Are you maintaining a consistent distance with your light stand to subject in order to minimize the math or just working with a mental meter and adjusting things based on experience? (Reason 3,452 of why I would like to follow Pat around for a wedding or two!) FME on-camera manual is really tough with non-static subjects and I'm compelled to use my aperture setting in accordance with distance to subject instead of using it for desired DOF and ambient/flash balance like I do when shooting ettl.

...

Matt

Matt I used to shoot 100% manual (I've never trusted IR) so I'm used to working this way. I used it all day long in all types of situations. Working with portraits is easy, and you will get to know your equipment and you can pretty much guess your flash power right on for a given situation after working with it for a while. With digital cameras, light meters aren't needed - you can take a test shot and adjust quickly. Normally within 3 shots (about 8 seconds) I could have my exposure perfectly dialed in. Done. No wandering ETTL.

Shooting receptions is really easy in manual, put the flash as far away from your subjects as possible and think inverse square law. If you can get your flash 30 feet away from the head table (for toasts for example) the exposure won't change that much over the distance of a few feet at the table. Same think for a dance floor - keep the flash as far away as possible and the exposure won't change much of the dance floor.

Really my biggest gripe with ETTL is ETTL itself. If the flash reflects directly back at you (mirror, window or just including the flash in frame) ETTL will dramatically reduce the flash power. As you get really far away from your subject and try to light up a small part of the frame, ETTL likes to really blow it out.

Dan7312

As far as I can see the only reason to put as flex on the camera is if you want to remotely trigger the shutter. The Mini is transmit only, it can't receive.

Flex is both transmit and receive. If you want to do remote triggering you can just use a Mini or Flex in your hand and press the test button to trigger the shutter.

joshhuntnm wrote: »

do you use the mini or the flex on camera?

Rhinotherunt

I shoot with manual flashes. I love the consistency. After you use them a bit you know automatically what to set them and your camera to for different effects and ratios. Would recommend a lightmeter for starting off. Save money and get Cybersyncs... I use them and love them.

Weisel

I agree with Rhino. I also use Cybersyncs, and they are amazingly trouble free in the 1.5 years I've used them. Perfection with every shot.