Digital Only Wedding Packages

Cason

Are any of you offering digital only packages? I have a couple that wants absolutely no prints. I have no idea where to begin with this.

slpollett

They probably want you to give them your hi-res image files so they can go to Walmart and print their own. I'd be very leery of doing this for a lot of reasons.

I might could be convinced to part with web-sized image files if the price were right.

Sherry

heatherfeather

I give my clients the disc all the time... though they really have to pay for it since I give up all possible print sales in order to do so. The disk includes high res, low res and a copyright release that gives permission to print, no permission to edit or sell. It is pretty common.

david_h

We do them all the time.

All our packages (I call them Portfolio's cos it sounds like more posh) include all the high res files anyway so no big deal. None include any prints unless negotiated as a custom.

So if the couple don't want an album they get engagement session, wedding day, DVD with images, usage release and slideshow (they choose images for show and get DVD disc version, PC/Mac version and iPhone version).

A lot of our clients are creative types and like to do their own albums or scrapbooks so they love it. Good for me too, quick clean, easy to do. Avoids getting backlogged with album designs at busy times.

mmmatt

I always include the disc with low, high, and personal use copyright. I charge for it in my upfront cost and don't rely on print sales to make a buck. Those around here who don't normally include it charge $400 fme, so that may help you come up with an up charge. In my opinion counting on your prints for your profit is old school and not what clients are looking for these days, but I'm sure there are many out there who still do it that way.

Matt

Cason

It looks like I would be covering 2 hours of rehearsal dinner and about 10 hours of wedding day coverage. I would be driving about 4 hours to their venue. So, I have to consider that to in the cost. So much to think about...

astrostu

Not to make any assumptions here, so 2 answers: If you're new to this (as I am), then it's likely much easier for you just to part with the digital files and not have to worry about printing. Yes, I know that this means you have no control over whether they print it pro or discount grocery, but if you're starting, then I think it makes more sense for you to concentrate on the photography as a skill first while keeping in mind at least some of the business aspect. Also if you're starting out, you can really figure out now, from the beginning, how your business model is going to work and where you'll make your money and how you're going to charge.

If you're already an established photographer, then I'm not going to pretend to be established enough to offer good advice on how to modify your current business plan to account for selling the "digital negatives" instead of making most of your money off of prints.

Cason

I'm a HS senior photographer. So, I deal with prints more than digital. I do offer digital files and offer them on DVD for a certain amount. I have yet to have anybody buy the DVD. Every now and then I will have a client buy a digital file for year books or community magazines.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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This would be my first wedding as the primary photography. Being a second shooter, I never had to deal with the business side. I just show up, shoot and dump the card to the primary photographer.<o:p></o:p>
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This couple wants the digital files. I plan to post process them all. Once I give them the media, I'm sure they will be printing it somewhere. I plan to advise them on the online labs that I know can push out some quality prints.<o:p></o:p>

Blurmore

I offer it like I offer my services for commerical/headshot work...it is 150 dollars/hr for color corrected images on DVD and LL2R.

I haven't had anyone take me up on it for weddings (most decided to go with a package). I can't honestly say I'm that upset about it, I can make 500-700 dollars a day shooting a sub-contract wedding that I have NO back end on...why the hell would I want to shoot for 4 hours at 600 dollars with images I have to color correct?

heatherfeather

Blurmore wrote: »

....why the hell would I want to shoot for 4 hours at 600 dollars with images I have to color correct?

No kidding. Here is a secret: Charge more. A lot more. Then it becomes worth your while, and the client values it.

CanonRebelz

Give them a few hundred images for at least (AT LEAST) $1000 or so?
I know people who do mainly disc.

Blurmore

heatherfeather wrote: »

No kidding. Here is a secret: Charge more. A lot more. Then it becomes worth your while, and the client values it.

More hourly? I think 150/hr for color corrected images on DVD is pretty par in my market for that service...

heatherfeather

Blurmore wrote: »

More hourly? I think 150/hr for color corrected images on DVD is pretty par in my market for that service...

Really? Wow. Glad I live here then.

$150 per shooting hour? OR $150 for additional post work after you have fulfilled your part of the contract?

Blurmore

Per shooting hour. All I do in post is pretty much LR auto exposure and eye dropper WB.

tinywater

We never include prints for weddings, just a DVD with the files. Clients can opt to purchase the prints separately. Been working out for us, no complaints

trevorb

I try to price it where they get a disk and $100 print credit, that way they can see some quality prints.

bike21

I am currently doing a hybrid model of sorts for giving the disc out. I deliver it for 'free' 6 months after the wedding date, and promote my online galleries for print purchase from friends & family until then. Or they can purchase the CD/DVD immediately for $500 once the edits are done. I also include only the edits, not all shots as they are a waste of time anyway. I am also going to start giving out low res versions with a watermark for Facebook/social media posting.

heatherfeather

Here is my model:
Charge for booking the wedding... (Essentially a sitting fee. What they get: Culled photos basic processed... 40 or so deep processed in PS, me and equipment day of, an assistant day of, guest cards, schedules, online proofing in password protected gallery plus a bunch of bonus stuff they never know about in advance.)
+ for prints
+ a whole lot for disc and copyright permission.

My pricing is such that if they only book the wedding, I still come out great. If they get the disc and prints it is just gravy. But they almost always do, even if it is a year down the road.

Maybe it is because our economy up here is better or whatever, but I don't have any trouble staying busy.

mercphoto

Cason wrote: »

This couple wants the digital files. I plan to post process them all. Once I give them the media, I'm sure they will be printing it somewhere. I plan to advise them on the online labs that I know can push out some quality prints.

If you're leary of them using a sub-standard lab and getting poor prints as a result, simply include one 8x10 or a few 4x6's from a lab you trust and give that with the CD. This gives THEM something to compare to if something prints wrong.

mmmatt

heatherfeather wrote: »

Here is my model:
Charge for booking the wedding... (Essentially a sitting fee. What they get: Culled photos basic processed... 40 or so deep processed in PS, me and equipment day of, an assistant day of, guest cards, schedules, online proofing in password protected gallery plus a bunch of bonus stuff they never know about in advance.)
+ for prints
+ a whole lot for disc and copyright permission.

My pricing is such that if they only book the wedding, I still come out great. If they get the disc and prints it is just gravy. But they almost always do, even if it is a year down the road.

Maybe it is because our economy up here is better or whatever, but I don't have any trouble staying busy.

So your basic package has absolutly nothing tangeble? Basically you shoot and then they get to look at a gallery on-line?

Matt

heatherfeather

mmmatt wrote: »

So your basic package has absolutly nothing tangeble? Basically you shoot and then they get to look at a gallery on-line?

Matt

Yep. Though they always end up with more than that. It works for me!

mmmatt

heatherfeather wrote: »

Yep. Though they always end up with more than that. It works for me!

Do clients ever not realize that until after the wedding?

Matt

heatherfeather

Nope... I meet with them very thouroughly before hand... and they know the reasons why I set it up that way too. All AKers get PFDs ($1500ish dividend) in October, so it gives them the ability to get the disc and prints later, and afford the package they want now.

Matthew Saville

Honestly, delivering nothing but a high-res disc is doing a disservice to MOST clients. Just ask any friend who recently got married in the past two, three, even four or five years. Have they gotten around to making a single print from their wedding, let alone an album or something else really nice? I know countless couples who are in this boat, including MYSELF, and I've been married for just over a year.

So firstly, you're doing a disservice to your clients by letting them think that a disc of images is what they really want. Yes, I understand that a few couples are totally broke and it's better that they hire a great photographer with no products, than a terrible photographer with crappy products. And yes, I understand that a few other couples are into graphic design and they *plan* on making their own album, etc. But I'm talking about the masses here, the people we do business with 75%-90% of the year. You're doing them a disservice by allowing them to go ~5+ years without having a single physical product made from their wedding.

Secondly, you're shooting your own business in the foot. When that disc goes on a shelf and starts collecting dust, a lot of the time that's the end of your referral potential. Unless the couple is obsessed with Facebook and is totally referring the heck out of you over the internet, my point is that without any physical products, an album on their coffee table or a canvas on their wall; you're not going to have that free advertising. If a couple has one of your products on display, EVERY single person who enters their house will most likely see it, and it will be more and more exciting for friends and family to see, the quicker you get it into their hands.

Thirdly, you're damaging the industry as a whole. I totally understand the "trying to get into business" mentality, and the fact that hey, if someone is hiring you for $1500 and getting just a disc, you're PROBABLY not "stealing business" from a $5,000 photographer. But still- if you charge less than $3,000 and deliver a disc without a product, you're just perpetuating or worsening the expectations of the masses. Already, almost every consumer expects a disc of high-res images, and I'd say at least 50-75% of consumers are making cheap crummy prints at home on an inkjet printer, (uncle bob) ...or at walmart. (cheap bride / MOB)

Now, hear me out. I'm NOT saying that the high-res disc is evil. I'm not saying you should desperately protect your high-res files like they're film negatives.

What I'm actually saying is this: just get a product into people's hands, at all cost. Do your part to de-program consumers: It's NOT about the disc. For the past 5-10 years, digital age families have taken thousands and thousand of pictures, and then done nothing with them. My parents stopped making family albums before I even graduated high school, I think. Hey, I love sharing a sweet flash slideshow with Grandma via SmugMug. But it's just not the same. I'd much rather send her a Blurb book. And she'd MUCH rather receive one.

I'm not saying every beginner photographer out there needs to try and squeeze a $400 Leather Craftsmen album into their $1500 starter package. That would be called under-cutting the industry, and it's almost as bad as not delivering anything at all. You can start small. Three 150 page 7x7 blurb books should cost you less than $100-$200, and you can just build that into your package and eat the cost.

Tell the clients that it's simply not optional. The products are a part of the package, and they can't take them out to save money. If they insist, just tell them that actually, your "shoot and burn" package costs $1500 WITHOUT the products, and you're just throwing them in because you strongly believe that physical products are more important than the disc.

The more that professional photographers work to educate consumers, and encourage them to ACTUALLY buy / make prints and products with their digital images, the better off the industry will be in my opinion.


Interested to hear other people's opinions on the subject. It looks like nobody has really touched on this before, just talked about whether or not they give a disc, or what they charge for it. And that's really not the foundation of the issue, I believe. We've gotta help change consumers' minds, for their own good.


Take care,
=Matt=

shming

I haven't posted on here in a loong time, but I'm going to agree 110% with Mathew Saville. In our contract we state that all packages require the purchase of a wedding book. We will not just deliver a DVD of the photos. We haven't had any complaints from clients and we do not have any problem with booking the clients. When they make an appointment with us they are fully aware before hand that the main product is their wedding book so they don't even question it. It's just not an option with us. They do get a dvd of the photos - but only with the purchase of a wedding book. Besides - our clients would rather look at their photos organized in an event gallery on-line than sift through a dvd of photos. The DVD is just a means of storage in my opinion.

Given the choice:
Would you run back into a burning house for: your wedding book or a dvd?
Personally I would call up the photographer and have them order a new one because they have them on backup.

pinkymaling

Ok heres the deal....we don't shoot to burn. Try this out..shoot a wedding, deliver the archival DVD to the couple for a price and even throw in an online wedding gallery where they can purchase prints from the comfort of their own home. And yes....tell them its the top lab in the country:) Then call them up in two years and ask them if they would like to get a cup of coffee together and talk about their wonderful day and the Great photographs that you provided for them. I think they will remember you but they will be telling their friends they should find a photographer who makes them a great wedding book that they can look at every time they have a tiff...to make them remember why they married each other...every time their eyes glance at the beautiful book on the table. And to make it more romantic...they will have tears (GULP) in their eyes when they tell the other couple to get the book. I am not making this up...we met with a couple the other day whom was recommended by that couple who had no wedding book. OH NO....another orphan bride. Hmmm...

Cason

Wow....there is some great discussion going on here. I've been doing a lot of research on this and there are valid points on both sides. I've read where one photographer is thinking about buying a 16GB iPad and dumping all the photos on it and saying to the client here is your album!

mercphoto

Cason wrote: »

Wow....there is some great discussion going on here. I've been doing a lot of research on this and there are valid points on both sides. I've read where one photographer is thinking about buying a 16GB iPad and dumping all the photos on it and saying to the client here is your album!

Now that's a neat idea. The only problem with that -- it doesn't have the longevity of an actual print or photo album.

Matthew Saville

mercphoto wrote: »

Now that's a neat idea. The only problem with that -- it doesn't have the longevity of an actual print or photo album.

Yeah, I love the idea, and the day the iPad came out, I added a deliverable that includes an iPad of images. Even if it's just there to look cool on my price sheet, I think it's important to embrace the latest technology.

But I also think that (especially in America) TRADITION is under-valued way too much. Traditiooooonnn, TRADITION! Okay seriously. Tradition should be a very special part of every culture. A nice thick wedding album is just a beautiful thing. I don't know about the rest of the world, but I already spend enough of my life staring at LCD / LED etc. displays. The back of a camera, an iPod / iPhone / iPad, computer displays, TV's... Now we even have those way-too-bright electronic billboards, blinding you at night on the freeway. So, trust me I'm a huge geek and I'd love to have the latest digital gadget with my wedding photo slideshow / video on it, but that can't substitute a physical product. :-)

Take care,
=Matt=

Qarik

well said matt..some stuff I hadn't considered.

Matthew Saville

shming wrote: »

...The DVD is just a means of storage in my opinion.

Given the choice:
Would you run back into a burning house for: your wedding book or a dvd?
Personally I would call up the photographer and have them order a new one because they have them on backup.

Exactly. The DVD is just an archival item. You WANT your clients to put that disc on a shelf and forget about it.

It's a really vicious circle, actually. Consumers think of the disc as the "bare minimum" deliverable instead of a book, because they think the disc costs the photographer less time and money than an album does. So the shoot and burn package is really popular. But then photographers freak out because they don't want to deliver ANY images that haven't been completely color corrected and retouched and all that, so they enslave themselves to their computers for 20+ hours per job. There goes half your work-week! They're afraid of clients displaying ugly looking prints on their walls and mis-representing their work. So then consumers start expecting 500 or even 1,000 fully photoshopped images delivered, and they're still considering it "shoot and burn..." So the photographer is working ten times harder, while getting almost zero referrals. Because in reality, that disc hardly EVER makes it's way to a lab. All those fully photoshopped image files just sit there collecting dust. At most, maybe the couple will get excited one day and go make a bunch of misc 4x6 and 5x7 prints, maybe an 8x10 or two, but again these are probably just on a whim and a lot of the prints will again sit and collect dust.

So? Well, all the photographer has to do is re-value their time, service, and products. The biggest problem most "aspiring professionals" have is twofold- first, they don't value their time enough, and second, they tell themselves that because they're just starting out, their clients don't want or can't afford a really nice high-end product, or even a decent / low-end product. They just hand off the disc, and don't think twice about how short they just sold themselves. They THINK they're growing their business, when really they're just perpetuating the "shoot and burn" slump that affects almost the entire industry.

So like I said, re-value what you DO, and what you DELIVER. Why spend hours processing photos that will probably never get printed? Why not spend the same amount of time, or even less hopefully, and design a product that will be displayed proudly and will hopefully bring in plenty of referrals?

You don't have to go straight to the massive Leather Craftsmen albums, you can start small. Yes, you'll have to eat a few costs here and there, but in the long run it will be the best investment you ever make in your business.

And here's the beauty of it, here's where it all comes full-circle. Once you help clients to VALUE an album, you can throw in the disc too. And, as it ought to, that disc will just be an archive for the couple's peace of mind. INSTEAD of the couple feeling totally guilty because they never get around to making prints from their disc, and their friends and family keep bugging them to see pictures, etc. etc...

Oh and as a bonus, the client is now a lot less likely to print anything really large from the disc, thus reducing the risk of your work being mis-represented. Of course I do encourage clients to make all the small / medium prints they want, because I'm confident enough in my in-camera skills that a 4x6 made from a SOOC image will still blow away uncle bob, (Click here for a blog post about "SOOC"...)

http://matthewsaville.com/blog/2010/05/17/for-photographers-what-does-sooc-mean/

Hopefully, you'll have to do even less work, too. You shouldn't have to obsess over the color correction of all 500+ images, just the 50-100 photos that will go into the album.

So in the end, it works out for both parties- The photographer has to do less work, or maybe an equal amount but less of the tedious stuff. The client gets a better delivery for their investment, is happier about the service and product. Finally, the happy client plus the product in their hands should be a catalyst for increased referrals, thus rewarding the photographer for "working smarter, not harder"... (Hate that cliche, but that's really what this is...)

Take care!
=Matt=