HELP with flakey model
crystallized
Registered Users Posts: 29 Big grins
Re scheduling fees?
I have been in the process of booking a model for about a month now, how I've managed to keep up and cater to her needs is beyond me. She claims she's a "professional model" for over 10 years now and has thrown about the word "celebrity" even though the rest of the sentence included "bar" and "wet t-shirt contest".
I've been trying to work my actually very busy schedule with her party schedule, as well as recruiting a MUA and Hair Dresser (of which she's to pay separately of course, I'm just coordinating) I do this because I believe in great customer service, not because I think she's awesome and I need it.
We finally got scheduled for today at 3PM. She calls me at NOON to tell me she's way more hung over than anticipated. First off, everyone was out late celebrating last night. Like it even matters, I was out until 6AM stumblin around shooting off fireworks with everyone else. As was my MUA. And we were both up and ready to go fresh and bubbly for the shoot this AM. A professional model she says? *scoff* How can one be anymore unprofessional?
She says she really really wants to reschedule with me athough she doesn't seem real sorry about this, shes giggling like shes just so cute and all's that simple. I've had her booked for over a week for this date and time and have therefore lost business due to it. Not to mention coordinating 3 people, 2 of which actually are really busy...it's not the easiest. Now she's also saying shes going to include her boyfriend in the session as well =P
Have any of you experienced this? Would you charge a rescheduling fee?
Thank you for any help!!
I have been in the process of booking a model for about a month now, how I've managed to keep up and cater to her needs is beyond me. She claims she's a "professional model" for over 10 years now and has thrown about the word "celebrity" even though the rest of the sentence included "bar" and "wet t-shirt contest".
I've been trying to work my actually very busy schedule with her party schedule, as well as recruiting a MUA and Hair Dresser (of which she's to pay separately of course, I'm just coordinating) I do this because I believe in great customer service, not because I think she's awesome and I need it.
We finally got scheduled for today at 3PM. She calls me at NOON to tell me she's way more hung over than anticipated. First off, everyone was out late celebrating last night. Like it even matters, I was out until 6AM stumblin around shooting off fireworks with everyone else. As was my MUA. And we were both up and ready to go fresh and bubbly for the shoot this AM. A professional model she says? *scoff* How can one be anymore unprofessional?
She says she really really wants to reschedule with me athough she doesn't seem real sorry about this, shes giggling like shes just so cute and all's that simple. I've had her booked for over a week for this date and time and have therefore lost business due to it. Not to mention coordinating 3 people, 2 of which actually are really busy...it's not the easiest. Now she's also saying shes going to include her boyfriend in the session as well =P
Have any of you experienced this? Would you charge a rescheduling fee?
Thank you for any help!!
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Comments
You have a very busy schedule, are loosing business, and are professional?
Professionals don't stay out drinking stumbling around until dawn and then try to stagger to a job needing thought, direction, skill, and creativity. professionals put themselves in the best position possible to perform at their best.
As to your so called model. You really can't be so......OK let me phrase it this way. You know she isn't a real model, so why?
She would not be on my list period.
Even when the highest level models get unreliable they cease to get work.
Sam
kick her to the curb but not before charging her for the lost date for three people.
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
I'll agree only partly with Sam here; I think staying out till 6am when you had a shoot scheduled for 3pm the next day was a mistake, but it's not the total irresponsible career-ender that Sam thinks it is. I just think it was a mistake to schedule a shoot on July 5, and if you absolutely HAD to schedule it on July 5, it's a job, and it's generally a bad thing to stay up all night when you have a job the next afternoon. I'm just sayin'...
As to Miss Ditz, go ahead and reschedule, but treat it like any other job - get a signed contract, get a deposit, and if she cancels or reschedules on short notice, she forfeits the deposit. That's what the deposit is for, right? To motivate the client to keep to their part of the contract, and to compensate the photographer for their lost time if the client has to cancel on short notice.
I only require contracts for weddings and other large events, however after this incident I am seriously beginning to rethink this. I've never had this issue before but it is better safe than sorry, right? I will collect and wash my hands of this whole pain in my ass. Lesson learned, for sure.
Thank you for your input, everyone!
I would love to see your website. Can you post a link?
Sam
The way these girls think these days is beyond my comprehension and ability to foresee and come up with a solution to combat it.
How these girls even manage to live and survive escapes me. I would text them at night reminding them of the shoot we had 10 hours later and get a reply how much they were looking forward to it etc then I would ring them 30 min after they should have been in the studio and would get a " ooohhh, I forgot!" reply. I would then ring earlier in the morning and get some other excuse, like the been out late partying or whatever. Still amounted to wasted time and I had no answer to this.
The last couple really broke the camels back.
One did a no show and I sent a couple of emails over a few days asking what happened. Beyond belief, I get 2 replys and a phone message and all offered a completely different and highly implausible excuse for the same no show!!!
That was a new one I hadn't come across in the 20 years before.
Not a month later, another shooter I know had a commercial shoot booked with the same girl and I told him my experience with her and he canceled her as he didn't want to look stupid with the client.
She ranted and asked why he was canceling and he told her. She rang me and offered yet ANOTHER sob story excuse as to why she didn't show. When I mentioned that this was the 4th different excuse she had told me and related the others, she called me a liar and was going to have me sued for defamation.
I sent her a copy of the emails and told her go ahead and did not hold back in telling her exactly what I thought of her.
The one after that was a legend in her own mind and loved the pics I had done of another model who she had seen on her online folio. There was something about the girl I didn't really feel comfortable with in talking to her from the get go and put her off even though I could have used the money. She kept coming back to me so thinking she must be dedicated after all, we set up a shoot.
Unusually for me it was an afternoon shoot and thinking I would be clever, I rang mid morning to confirm and was told she was very sick and couldn't do it due to women's problems.
In the mean time, she has added me to my never used face space account and I get a notification of a new message the next day. She has put up a post about the wonderful shoot she did with her friend and her sister as the shooter at the location I had told her about and the themes we had discussed. Fearing I might say something that would have me locked up, ( Like a death threat!) I let it slide. About a week later I put a casting call on a model website for a small commercial shoot I had for a local car yard and this girl is messaging and emailing me with a somewhat deranged excitement.
Finally I get the sh*ts and email her back that I need a reliable model and as such she doesn't fit the bill. Next thing I get a call with her going off that she is reliable and why would I say that etc. I tell her that we had a shoot she pulled a no show on and lied to me about and of course she denys it. I asked her if she is really that stupid she doesn't remember plastering it all over her face space page and describe the pics and some of the comments she made on them.
Next thing she is telling me how she is going to get her boyfriend to come round and beat me up for hurting her reputation etc. I say fine, I saw what he looks like on your face space page, I know who's going to come out of that deal worse off, whatever you do don't show him a pic of me before you send him over or he'll have a heart attack.
The thing is, you can't earn a living or make a business when you have to deal with these lame brained flaky wanna be's. It's impossible so that being the given fact set in stone, you have to forget the idea and move on to other things unless you want to end up broke and in the looney bin.
I tried getting booking fees/ pre payments out of them but then they pull a no show and challenge the payment with the CC companies who want a signed declaration from a high court judge or they side automatically with the client. Always.
For me it's just all too hard, frustrating and time wasting to be bothered with. I'm a fat old balding guy who is married with kids and a sense of reality so I don't have delusions that one of these young bimbos is going to throw herself at me and want to be ravished so it's just business and as I see it, a very poor business to be in.
As such, I can find easier ways to earn a quid.
And before anyone chimes in about there being good "models" out there, spare me the soft of heart and head approach. I have shot hundreds of new and professional models and with 3 notable exceptions over 20+ years they have all been highly questionable in reliability, attitude or have some other weirdness about them and are getting distinctly worse.
I have also shot hundreds of ordinary girls and women that just wanted some nice pics of themselves and would never think of themselves as models and the flakes I have encountered with them I could count on one hand with fingers to spare. The no shows have always been genuine as well. You can tell when they ring you, email you and apologize profusely with simple plauseable reasons and are more than happy to pay you for your time and then apologize some more. They always rebook and come in and apologise a few more times over the course of the shoot and Thank you like you just gave them a kidney.
It's not hard to see the difference between the flakes and the genuine people just as it isn't hard to see the difference in who thinks they are models and who would never presume such a thing although most of them have far and away more potential.
I don't know what it is but when these girls take on the nomenclature of " Model" their good common sense, manners and general brain function and social skills see to take leave of them.
These days I'm happy to shoot glam type pics for the girl in the street but fortunately I'm not that hard up to have to take every job and the minute I hear the "M" word dropped, I'm booked up, out of town or going to be dead that day.
Whatever it takes to not have to deal with that rubbish any more.
Are you serious???
I stand by what I wrote. There is much more to being a real professional than simply getting someone to cough up a buck for your services.
Let me provide a photography related example; Your a professional photographer, your client Widgets Inc. has contracted with you to shoot their latest product on location using a tall model with dark hair, olive skin, and green eyes. You go through the effort to find the look your client wants. You confirm with your client, coordinate with the and model, have the time and location set.
Your prepare and pack all your gear, lights, power source, cameras, lenses, etc. You arrive at the site with your assistant or assistants, make up artist. Several Widget Inc. folks arrive with product. You begin setting up and the model arrives on time. The make up artist comes to and informes you the model looks like hell. She was out partying all night appears to be flat, lethargic, and her eyes are totally blood shot. You talk with the model, she says that she is there on time and ready to work. You conclude you can't get what the client wants using this model, and inform the client you need to reschedule the shoot.
The client while not openly criticizing you will have concerns that your not capable of running your business and begin to question their decision to hire you in the first place.
You are out one full day, the cost of your assistants, make up artist, travel, etc.
Your reputation has taken a hit, what ever profit is in the job has been reduced, and you have to go through the whole process of rescheduling the entire shoot.
I doubt you would you call this model professional, or hire her again, yet she was there on time and willing to work.
Sam
Well, the way I see it, if the model was flat, lethargic, and looked like hell, then she wasn't "ready" to work.
As far as the OP photographer, different people need different amounts of sleep- it's a matter of knowing what your limits are - if the OP can function adequately on 6-7 hours of sleep, no problem. Nothing he said gave the impression that he was 'staggering' into work.
www.ivarborst.nl & smugmug
Quote from the OP: "First off, everyone was out late celebrating last night. Like it even matters, I was out until 6AM stumblin around"
I should have used the word stumbling rather than stagger.
You are right about different people needing different amounts of sleep, but I have never seen anyone who could party all night and then function at their best the next day. Adequate perhaps best no.
The best professionals in any vocation or avocation are not satisfied with adequate. They prepare themselves and put themselves in a position to do their best.
Since the OP was lambasting the model (rightly so) I wanted to make the point that the OP may want to also think about his professionalism.
Please ask the professionals you admire the most about their preparation for a shoot. You will find there is much more to it than waking up and grabbing the camera.
To those who understand this concept I am preaching to the choir. To those who because of age, experience, lack of mentoring, etc. you will ether learn the hard way or maybe not learn at all.
I stand by what I wrote, and this will be my last post on this issue.
Sam
A true professional does the job to the best of his ability.... without letting any other distractions affect the quality of his work. THAT'S a professional.... period.
Geez some people have high horses!
Maybe so high their heads are in the clouds where the air is a bit thin to provide adequate oxygen.
They must also think others have never worked in the real world and people will fall for their holier than thou guff!
I would think that anyone with age and experience would know that a models looks are her commodity and skill as it were and a photographers certainly is not. I have never heard of any photographer being paid for how they looked in themselves on a job or a client giving a rats how much sleep they had as long as they were at the job on time and did what they were paid to do.
In the real world, it's often the case where you simply don't have enough hours between one job and the next for a full, cozy nights sleep.
I can't remember how many times I have done a commercial shoot, spent the night in the darkroom printing up pics to take back to the client the next morning for a press event and then have to shoot for most of the day again.
Rather than worry about a lack of sleep, I put in a bit of effort and took the jobs on and was paid handsomely for delivering what others basically said was too hard. I slept real well when the job was finished with the satisfaction of the fat bank account that came from a bit of hard work and effort. I will admit that about 32 hours straight is my limit and then I shut down and have to rest but while I'm awake I can shoot the same no matter how much sleep I have had.
I still to this day get home from events and have to prep for the next days job which leaves 4 hours for sleep if I'm lucky before I have to get up to be there on time to do it all over again. I'm sure I don't look my best but people pay me for the pics I take, not to look good. Maybe other shooters have different clients??
Those that can cut the mustard can still do their job even if they did get to bed late because they know their craft inside and out and can do it with their eyes shut and are tough enough not to let the lack of a few hours sleep undermine their performance and can get the job done to their best standard anyway.
OTOH, ... snip mod edit
Sam, he was out 'stumbling' *9* hours before the shoot, he never said he was 'stumbling' or staggering or whatever word you want to use during the shoot.
I wouldn't be surprised if the 'stumbling around until 6 am' was a little bit of an exaggeration, but even if that is accurate, 9 hours is certainly enough time for a young guy to get enough sleep and be up and alert in time for the shoot.