Issues using 430EX II outside
Hello everyone!
I was recently at a friend's wedding and was shooting outside after the church with my XSi, 50mm 1.8 and 430EX II. It was very sunny so the shadows were quite harch. I had the flash set to HSS (high-speed sync) and some pics had lots of overblown highlights, while others were exposed properly. Any ideas as to what would cause the exposure inconsistency? Can bad batteries have an effect on flash output? My wife also ran into this issue a little while back and I can't figure it out. I'm at work right now so I can't post pics, but if needed I can post some later.
Thanks!
Adam
I was recently at a friend's wedding and was shooting outside after the church with my XSi, 50mm 1.8 and 430EX II. It was very sunny so the shadows were quite harch. I had the flash set to HSS (high-speed sync) and some pics had lots of overblown highlights, while others were exposed properly. Any ideas as to what would cause the exposure inconsistency? Can bad batteries have an effect on flash output? My wife also ran into this issue a little while back and I can't figure it out. I'm at work right now so I can't post pics, but if needed I can post some later.
Thanks!
Adam
0
Comments
I suspect that you may have shot before the flash was charged and I think that the camera reverts to whatever ambient mode the camera was set on until the flash is charged and ready. The exposure information in the EXIF will tell if that's what happened.
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Thanks for the quick reply, Ziggy. If I understand you correctly, the camera (after the first shot) metered and exposed thinking there would be no flash, when in fact the flash did fire, causing overexposure. Am I in the ball park?
Adam
Not quite. I suspect that when your flash is charged and ready the camera senses that situation and typically uses a different shutter speed (depending on the camera, shooting mode and camera setup). When the flash is not charged, it is not sensed, and the camera reverts to whatever ambient mode is being used, and that can be inappropriate for the shooting conditions.
I've had this happen when moving from an indoor situation into the outdoors, for instance. If I forget to change the camera exposure settings in a couple of different exposure modes the flash exposure can be very nice and the exposure without flash can be waaay off.
The EXIF should give us hints to what happened.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
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Canon cameras try to compensate for the background when you use the flash in Av, often resulting in abnormally slow shutter speeds (and unexpected exposure on your subject). Read the manual for your camera under "using the built-in flash in the creative zone" under Av (it is probably somewhere else as well - such as p12 in the 430's manual).
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HSS allows you to set the shutter faster than normal sync speed (1/200th) up to 1/8000. If your shutter was 1/60, HSS did not help in any way.
Thanks for the replies!
Adam
The first three pics are from the wedding. The first pic is one that over exposed using the flash. The next two worked out fine.
The last three shots are of our beautiful niece Paige. The first one over exposed with the flash, the 2nd one was fine (w/ flash), and the last one is just ambient light.
Anyway, have at'er and let me know the diagnosis!
Thanks,
Adam
the EXIF data is there but you also need to learn how to reduce the file size of the pic!
I can see on one overexposed pic you used ISO 400 and f2.8 so you're going to reach the 1/4000 shutter limit pretty quick, it will be overexposed in the sun. When I use a flash outdoors I underexpose the ambient light with smaller apertures, ISO 100 and shutter speeds of 1/200. (But then my cheap Yongnuo flash doesn't have high speed sync!)
try and learn to shoot in manual mode so you can balance ambient light and flash light
Anyway, I'm still scratching my head as I've yet to get consistent keepers using the 430EX II when taking relatively close-up portraits outside. Is there an unwritten minimum distance that the subject must be from me in order for the pic to not overexpose when using fill flash? Or should I just play with the FEC and find a sweet spot for the given conditions/distance? What about a flash modifier? I seem to be seeing a lot of pros using them in online tutorials. I've had good luck bouncing off of walls when inside, but seeing as it's summer I've been outside with the family quite a bit.
Thanks in advance!
Adam
I have had the camera set to spot metering by accident, and focused on a black suit, and then everything gets nuked.
the pics are no longer there (use flickr!) but learn how to use your camera's manual mode for different outdoor lighting situations - better than fooling with FEC !
Ya I took the pics down as others complained about the large size.
What are some good techniques for "using M" outside with a flash? Are there some guidlines as to what camera function (SS, Av, ISO) should be used to control certain photo qualities when using flash in M outside?
Also, I seem to blow out more pics when using the flash for close shots (less than 5'-6'). Do external flashes have trouble putting out extremely low amounts of power for these shots? I've even dialed in -1 FEC and still had some "white" shots.
Thanks,
Adam
When you put your flash in manual mode, you have full control over power output (1/1 - 1/32 I think) as well as flash zoom (24-70mm).
This, along with the manual control over your camera settings (aperture, ISO, shutter) will give you everything you need to get the shot. You just need to practice.
just go out in your backyard, aim your camera at something, use different settings and move the flash closer and see the results. At some point you will realize you have more control with the flash on ETTL and the camera on manual. But some of the exposure problems in the pics posted resulted in using f2.8 and high ISO's in bright sunshine that would result in exposure problems no matter what the setting (your camera is limited to 1/4000 shutter speed). Why did you use f2.8 in all those pics ?
I used F2.8 mostly because I like the shallow DOF. The shutter speed never exceeded 1/4000 so the camera should still be able to expose properly (if I understand correctly). My biggest question is how the various settings (SS, AV, ISO) should be manipulated when using the camera in M with the flash in ETTL. i.e. - do you set SS to stop motion, Av to set DOF only, ISO to expose the background and let the flash do the rest? Indoors I shoot with the camera in M all the time and have good results. It's only since I've been shooting in Av with the flash outside that I've had exposure issues. I was looking for some "inside" info, but it sounds like I may just need to spend some time playing around.
Also, I'm probably gonna pick up a Sto-Fen Omnibounce, as it seemed to have great reviews at B&H. Any comments from fellows grinners?
Adam
OK, so maybe you don't know what's going on! (happens to the best of us!)
shooting at f2.8 with high ISO in bright sunshine is going to necessitate a high shutter speed for proper exposure (even if you use the high speed sync function). your shutter speed is limited to 1/4000 and that's why it looked overexposed because your camera cannot go to 1/6000 or whatever it takes for a proper exposure in bright sunshine at f2.8 with high ISO. Some models (like the 40D, 50d, 7d, etc,) can go beyond 1/4000 shutter speed (without high speed sync) but your XSi cannot.
But going back to practice - try locking the ISO at 100 or 200, use a shutter speed of 1/200 (the sync speed without HS sync) and play around with different apertures using the external flash in sunshine. you can get pics that POP - a whole lot better than the ones you posted!
lol...I'm not a pro but I do understand the basic relationship between aperture and SS. As I said in my earlier post, the SS never got over 1/4000, so that shouldn't have been the cause for overexposure (I would've seen a blinking "4000" in the viewfinder). I don't remember shooting anything over ISO400, but I'll have to check the pics to confirm that. Anyway, I've found some tutorials online that seem to be pointing me in the right direction. I'm gonna try some shooting in M when I get home and see what I can do.
Thanks for the help,
Adam.
OK, if it wasn't blinking then I'm not sure what the reasons are for the overexposure. I try not to use f2.8 on close-up people shots because of the narrow DOF and the increased chances of missed focus. And now that I think about it, with close distances fill flash does seem to overexpose sometimes unless you adjust the FEC. But I would definitely practice using manual settings
Adam
don't let your gear do the thinking for you.
For outside (daylight): AV mode, f/2.8 except where I need more DOF, iso 100, ETTL flash for fill with HS enabled.
For indoors (dark): M mode, f/2.8, 1/160 shutter or there abouts, high ISO up to 3200 in very dark situations, ETTL flash (preferably bounced or off camera). You want the manual setting to be underexposing just a stop or 2 so that the flash isn't having to add too much, this way the background doesn't look pitch black.
On the 5d II you can use the custom modes to switch between these settings very quickly.
I've never seen a pro event shooter use manual mode and flash as some have recommended, although it might be great for less stressful situations where you have time to tinker and try different settings out.
interesting, if you look at the lighting section at POTN it seems manual mode is used far more often with ETTL. Maybe wedding photographers don't post in the flash/lighting section !
Other causes....NOT set to HSS....loose shoe connection for flash, cord, or master device.
Ive used ETTL for years for on location portraits and events. It works. (period)
Jeff
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