Help me go OCF

ssimmonsphoto

I've been reading, researching, and reading some more while looking at getting a transmitter and two receivers (to go with my Canon 7D and two 580EXii flashes). Before I bit the bullet on the one that I'm leaning towards, I wanted to get input from you guys since you are doing what I'd be doing with them. So, please, what are you using or what would you recommend?

Moogle Pepper

Cybersyncs!!

nikmolson

cybersync's are great and cheaper so they would be perfect, though if you just want to test it out first the ebay cheapo kits you can get are actualy very reliable and usuable

ssimmonsphoto

Given that I'll be using these puppies to MAKE money, I'd rather spend money to get something that is rock solid reliable. I've experimented with the built-in capabilities of the wireless flashes that I have, so I know that it's something that I want to invest in for my upcoming gigs.

Anyone else mind putting in their two cents?

Te Amo

if youre looking to spend money, go with pocket wizards. otherwise, i would suggest going with one of the Yong Nuo kits. theyre built well, and are more reliable than a lot of the other third party triggers.
the ctr-301p or rf 602 are both good models.
whatever you do, stay away from cactuz

Matthew Saville

ssimmonsphoto wrote: »

Given that I'll be using these puppies to MAKE money, I'd rather spend money to get something that is rock solid reliable. I've experimented with the built-in capabilities of the wireless flashes that I have, so I know that it's something that I want to invest in for my upcoming gigs.

Anyone else mind putting in their two cents?

If you're putting "rock solid reliable" and "the built in capabilites" in the same sentence, ...yeah. Infra-red is definitely NOT the perfect solution, unfortunately.

The only thing I can recommend is to try and learn from Scott Robert Lim, one way or another. He is one of the most creative and well-known wedding photographers as far as wireless flash is concerned. I just attended a workshop two days ago with him, on wireless flash, and he's extremely thorough and helpful.

Other than that, Strobist is a great resource, and you can always pick up the Zack Arias "One Light" DVD which is a great resource too.

There's also no substitute for good 'ol fashioned goofing around in your spare time! That's how I learned much of my wireless flash skills... That, and Scott Robert...

Good luck!

=Matt=

ssimmonsphoto

Matthew Saville wrote: »

If you're putting "rock solid reliable" and "the built in capabilites" in the same sentence, ...yeah. Infra-red is definitely NOT the perfect solution, unfortunately.=Matt=

Oh, yes, I definitely know. It gave me a place to start and a way to experiment with it before spending money for more gear. But I've reached the point at which spending the money is what I want to do as my last gear purchase of the 2010 (yeah, I know, like that will happen!). What do you use to control your flashes, Matt?

Matthew Saville

ssimmonsphoto wrote: »

Oh, yes, I definitely know. It gave me a place to start and a way to experiment with it before spending money for more gear. But I've reached the point at which spending the money is what I want to do as my last gear purchase of the 2010 (yeah, I know, like that will happen!). What do you use to control your flashes, Matt?

Honestly? I just don't use wireless flash very much when I'm "on the job", it's mostly just a hobby that the geek in me likes to mess around with in spare time. I shoot 90% of my paid work 100% natural light...

So most of the time when goofing around with wireless flash, I DO just use the un-reliable built-in pop-up system, on Nikon. Just one SB800 remote, commanded by my on-camera pop-up. Sometimes diffused through an umbrella, but mostly not.

That is for quickie fill light or other fast portrait situations where wireless flash is fun, quick, and not mission-critical.

If I'm at a reception, in a really tough lighting situation where the infra-red system just isn't going to cut it, then I bust out some radio triggers. I don't use pocket wizards, because like I said it was never an integral, mission-critical part of my style, so I've mostly just goofed around with the cheaper alternatives. Right now I'm using an extremely reliable set that I got from Scott Robert; you can find plenty of cheap radio triggers on eBay but this is one that Scott had put a personal guarantee on, so there was peace of mind attached since I've heard so many stories of people getting complete junk on eBay...

Anyways, like I said originally- if you play around and decide that this is a really important aspect of your style, don't mess around- buy something that is really going to last you a long time, and *always* work no matter what.

=Matt=

mmmatt

I'm surprised nobody has asked if you prefer to shoot manual flash or TTL... that will make a difference in your selection.

Matt

Dan7312

Simple radio triggers only fire the flash, they don't support advanced flash functions like eTTL. PocketWizard mini/flex triggers do support ETTL and 2nd curtain sync and they claim to squeeze out more light from the flash when doing high-speed sync.

So if you want eTTL capability on your remote flashes you should consider PocketWizard mini/flex or Radio Poppers.

ssimmonsphoto wrote: »

Given that I'll be using these puppies to MAKE money, I'd rather spend money to get something that is rock solid reliable. I've experimented with the built-in capabilities of the wireless flashes that I have, so I know that it's something that I want to invest in for my upcoming gigs.

Anyone else mind putting in their two cents?

Matthew Saville

Dan7312 wrote: »

Simple radio triggers only fire the flash, they don't support advanced flash functions like eTTL. PocketWizard mini/flex triggers do support ETTL and 2nd curtain sync and they claim to squeeze out more light from the flash when doing high-speed sync.

So if you want eTTL capability on your remote flashes you should consider PocketWizard mini/flex or Radio Poppers.

Unfortunately, I haven't heard perfect reports about EITHER system, and so as a professional solution, where you need it to "go bang every time", ...there really are few choices, and they're all manual. I see almost no reason for an off-camera flash to be in TTL; once you understand flash guide numbers and distance VS aperture & ISO, TTL feels like a joke. The only need I usually have for TTL is bouncing on-camera flash when the distances and surfaces vary greatly from shot to shot.

But again, it just depends on how important reliability is, versus what your style demands. If for some reason you find yourself in situations where TTL is very necessary, then indeed you'll have to try and figure out how to make the PW Flex or Radio Popper systems work reliably. Otherwise, get the original Pocket Wizard system and call it a day, or find a RELIABLE alternative that you can trust. Personally, for less than the cost of ONE set of normal Pocket Wizards, I was able to get TWO sets of very reliable "cheapo" radio triggers. (not the infamous "cactus" triggers, but still from China. The ones that Scott Robert uses, and he is ALL about wireless flash if you have ever seen his style of imagery... scottrobertgallery.com...)

Again, good luck deciding! What you've received from everyone here so far should be plenty good enough to help you pick the right system. It's just a matter of developing your style...

=Matt=

Dan7312

I was just really making the point that if you want eTTL you can't get it with simple radio triggers. Even when you don't use eTTL with mini/flex they do 2nd curtain sync and (according to PW) they pump out more light in high speed sync than the when they are used with a Canon opitical trigger. I've seen some reviews that confirm that added light output.

I'm not a pro so I don't really exercise my mini/flex execise my mini/flex's as much or as hard as a pro would.

I do see two reliability issues with them though. One is pretty well known and that is the rf noise that Canon 580 flashes produce can interfere with the radio signals that the PW's use. There are a number of somewhat clumsy ways to get around this issue, but as long as the flashes are within about 30 feet of the camera the rf noise doesn't seem to be a problem.

The other issue is just plain ol' complexity. You are, in effect, adding a bunch of controls to the camera and the flashes, and some of their settings cannot be read without plugging the flex or mini into a computer. So it's easy to mis-configure things. But even with just the external switches it's easy to get one set wrong unless you are pretty methodical about setting them up.

Just the other day I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out what I had configured wrong when the flashes wouldn't fire... after a bit of investigation I found out that I had forget to turn on the flashes!

Every time I've dug into why I had a mis-fire, as opposed to just resetting the mini/flex's configurations and starting over, I've found I had mis-configured something. Of that's just my fault, not the mini/flex's, but in the real world complexity is a component of reliability.

Matthew Saville wrote: »

I see almost no reason for an off-camera flash to be in TTL; once you understand flash guide numbers and distance VS aperture & ISO, TTL feels like a joke.
=Matt=

Matthew Saville

Dan7312 wrote: »

I was just really making the point that if you want eTTL you can't get it with simple radio triggers. Even when you don't use eTTL with mini/flex they do 2nd curtain sync and (according to PW) they pump out more light in high speed sync than the when they are used with a Canon opitical trigger. I've seen some reviews that confirm that added light output.

I'm not a pro so I don't really exercise my mini/flex execise my mini/flex's as much or as hard as a pro would.

I do see two reliability issues with them though. One is pretty well known and that is the rf noise that Canon 580 flashes produce can interfere with the radio signals that the PW's use. There are a number of somewhat clumsy ways to get around this issue, but as long as the flashes are within about 30 feet of the camera the rf noise doesn't seem to be a problem.

The other issue is just plain ol' complexity. You are, in effect, adding a bunch of controls to the camera and the flashes, and some of their settings cannot be read without plugging the flex or mini into a computer. So it's easy to mis-configure things. But even with just the external switches it's easy to get one set wrong unless you are pretty methodical about setting them up.

Just the other day I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out what I had configured wrong when the flashes wouldn't fire... after a bit of investigation I found out that I had forget to turn on the flashes!

Every time I've dug into why I had a mis-fire, as opposed to just resetting the mini/flex's configurations and starting over, I've found I had mis-configured something. Of that's just my fault, not the mini/flex's, but in the real world complexity is a component of reliability.

Agreed. VERY good points. And yes, I too love the ability to change the (manual) power of my flashes from the camera position. So even though I wouldn't use TTL much, I'd still love to try a pair of Radio Poppers or something...

=Matt=