HDR...maybe baby?

rteest42

If you don't do HDR, and are not particularly interested in purchasing additional software to learn to do HDR, but are faced with an opportunity in 9 days to head out to Yellowstone and other points west, and may someday like to possible fool around with HDR like ideas from those images......
what would you do?

I have read very little on tone mapping and HDR, but I think that the day of the shooting is the most important part, right?

Even if I wasn't particularly interested in immediately trying HDR out when I came home, if I have all of the images required, I could change my mind, right??

So, can someone point me in the right direction for a crash course in possibly shooting something for such an eventuality??

I thank you!

eoren1

If you have the time and memory, I say go for it! I only got into HDR recently and am really enjoying it.
Here's a good tutorial: http://www.stuckincustoms.com/hdr-tutorial/
If you shoot with Canon, you are limited to 3 brackets; Nikon I think gets 5...
I've found that good HDR comes from 7-9 exposures. You can get there pretty easily by shooting in Av mode with brackets set to +/- 2/3. Shoot your first shot then dial down your exposure compensation to -1 1/3 (4 clicks) and get 3, then +1 1/3 (4 clicks) and get another 3. You'll end up with 7 brackets from -2 to +2 by 2/3. If you're dynamic range is wider than that, you can bracket by 1 or 1 1/3 and adjust appropriately.
The increased exposures allow for more subtle tones. The key is to not assume that all shots will work from -2 to +2. Use your histogram and/or manually run the gamut of your exposures to make sure you go from near black frame to almost completely blown out.
Hope that helps and enjoy the trip!
E

Oh yeah...shoot RAW

Art Scott

Nikon will do 9 brackets at your choice of .3 , .7 and 1 .... When auto bracketing

I will do an 11-17 shot bracket when shooting totally in manual at 1/3 shot increments for later processing

Shoot only in RAW and use a tripod to steady the camera and lens...........

I have not started processing my "shot for HDR" files yet......but will when I have the time to sit and play.

Good Luck

kdog

E, on what basis are you recommending a bracketing increment of 2/3 stops? Most HDR references that I've read say a 2 stop increment will suffice. Also, while it's true that Canon is limited to 3 a three shot AEB, and Nikon can do five, Nikon only allows a one stop increment while Canon allows two. The net result is that the same dynamic range can be captured by either camera by a single AEB burst. The Canon just does it in fewer frames.

In fact, the very site you referenced, Stuck in Customs, says this: " On my Nikon D3x, I usually take 5 pics at -2, -1, 0, 1, +2. I’d prefer just to take 3 pics at -2, 0, and +2, but this camera only steps by 1. I think you will find this +2 to -2 range satisfactory for 95% of situations."

Ferrell McCollough's book, High Dynamic Range Digital Photography, page 102 say this. "As a general rule, less than 1 EV spacing is too little, from 1 EV to 2 EV is ideal, and over 2 EV is too much".

When in doubt I use a 2 stop EV myself for most situations and have been pretty pleased with the results. On the other hand, if you have empirical evidence to the contrary then I'm all ears.

rteest42

Thanks! I knew I could get a bunch of differing (hence confusing!!!) info!

I DO have much memory. I ALWAYS shoot raw.

I don't intend to get terribly involved in the construct of HDR, but I figured that if there was ever a time to be prepared, it would be Badlands and Yellowstone ET AL...

I will do some poking around on any sites you guys recommend...as I had said, I've done a bit of general reading but since I don't think its something I am going to really get into....

only 9 more sleeps!! It's getting exciting...

eoren1

kdog wrote: »

E, on what basis are you recommending a bracketing increment of 2/3 stops? Most HDR references that I've read say a 2 stop increment will suffice. Also, while it's true that Canon is limited to 3 a three shot AEB, and Nikon can do five, Nikon only allows a one stop increment while Canon allows two. The net result is that the same dynamic range can be captured by either camera by a single AEB burst. The Canon just does it in fewer frames.

In fact, the very site you referenced, Stuck in Customs, says this: " On my Nikon D3x, I usually take 5 pics at -2, -1, 0, 1, +2. I’d prefer just to take 3 pics at -2, 0, and +2, but this camera only steps by 1. I think you will find this +2 to -2 range satisfactory for 95% of situations."

Ferrell McCollough's book, High Dynamic Range Digital Photography, page 102 say this. "As a general rule, less than 1 EV spacing is too little, from 1 EV to 2 EV is ideal, and over 2 EV is too much".

When in doubt I use a 2 stop EV myself for most situations and have been pretty pleased with the results. On the other hand, if you have empirical evidence to the contrary then I'm all ears.

Hey kdog-
I used to do the +2/-2 3 exposure bracket. Went on a Photo Walk in Boston with some guys who were really into HDR - to the point where they only shot HDR - and learned that all shot 7-9 exposures. Most were using a device called the Promote link to 'figure out' their brackets for them based on the range of the scene. When I shot some of these recently and tried bracketing by 2/3 stops, I ended up with much more realistic results from Photomatix and better captures of things like sunbeams (see below). I'm still working out the best range. I did also learn that +2 to -2 does not necessarily encompass the entire range that you will need - I know will shoot a few well below -2 in a bright scene to ensure I capture the full range of highlights.
E

kdog

Maybe I wasn't clear, E. There are two separate issues here: dynamic range, and bracketing increment. The most important thing is to capture the range, and one must take as many shots necessary to do that. No argument there. The bracketing increment was really the focus of my question to you. I consider (and so do the references I gave), brackets of less than 1 stop to be wasteful, and can actually be detrimental. Take for example shooting a sunset. The sun moves incredibly quickly when it's on the horizon and you'll want to capture your frames as quickly as possible. The way I do this is to combine AEB burst mode at 2 stop increments along with exposure compensation. So I'll spin the EC wheel full left which makes my left-most frame -4 EV. Fire off a burst, then spin the EV wheel full right which gives me up to +4 EV. There's no thinking, and no calculations in my head, just two high-speed sequence bursts separated by a quick spin on the EC wheel. You don't even need to look at your EC. Just spin it half a turn or so, and you'll catch the upper range. I can capture a -4 to +4 range in two or three seconds that way. With a smaller AEB increment things so down dramatically because you have to do more than two bursts, calculating and setting a new EC each time. That's fine in some cases, but a real liability in others, like moon-rises or sunsets like I mentioned. So my question is what is the benefit of sub-one-stop increments? Is that what these HDR experts you shot with on the photowalk do? Did they give a technical reason why it's beneficial?

Thanks,
-joel

PS: And oh, if we're gonna show off HDRs to prove a point (which I'm not sure it does ) here's a 3 shot, 2 EV increment HDR from last weekend.

colourbox

I'm a total newbie to HDR, but I learned something yesterday to pass on. If you're using the camera's auto-bracketing, you might forget to check your exposure mode. I shot two sets before I realized that the aperture was changing because the camera was in Program mode, which means it was changing the depth of field. Switched to Aperture Priority and then I got the sets I wanted.

I did end up arriving at kdog's method of doing a set of 3 at the low end, spin the EC wheel for another set of 3 at the high end, plus I shot 1 frame right in the middle for 7 total.

pathfinder

My 7D allows for + and - 3 stops of EC to be dialed in via AEB.

I shoot my brackets in Manual Mode, which only alters shutter speed, and with AF turned off.

daq7

You should also be aware that you CAN do tone mapping by pulling the shots from a single raw file. I do it all the time. Of course it will tend to amplify noise from the shot, so I frequently reblend with non tone mapped layers to control that. So if you aren't sure you REALLLY want to do it, just shoot all your shots in raw mode, and then later you can play with HDR by generating the brackets from that.

kdog

daq7 wrote: »

You should also be aware that you CAN do tone mapping by pulling the shots from a single raw file. I do it all the time. Of course it will tend to amplify noise from the shot, so I frequently reblend with non tone mapped layers to control that. So if you aren't sure you REALLLY want to do it, just shoot all your shots in raw mode, and then later you can play with HDR by generating the brackets from that.

For that matter, you can just use the RAW converter to enhance your single RAW image. Using fill light and recovery is actually a form of tonemapping. You can even create some pretty wild effects if you push things. For example, here's a single RAW image processed in ACR as I recall by pushing all of the sliders full right.

dlplumer

kdog wrote: »

For that matter, you can just use the RAW converter to enhance your single RAW image. Using fill light and recovery is actually a form of tonemapping. You can even create some pretty wild effects if you push things. For example, here's a single RAW image processed in ACR as I recall by pushing all of the sliders full right.

And here I thought you guys splattered paint all over that subway.

eoren1

kdog-
I think you have some very good points. I don't know what the guys typically use to bracket and had happened upon 2/3 as being able to given me the full DR of most scenes in 9 steps. My hunch is that 2 stops is too wide and can lead to missing some subtle changes in light (ie sun rays extending outwards). I know do the same as you with a +/- EV set and then spinning the wheel. I've only been working on HDR in this fashion for a few weeks and have much, much more to learn. I hope that we can all keep exploring and sharing best practices.
E

daq7

In the experimentation I have done I have not noticed that adding a bunch of shots typically improves things, but I have hardly been rigorous. And in fact I have grown progressively less happy with the results I get from photomatix and have started doing more hand blending. But I see sensational results from people who say use more, so I am currently inferring that I am just wrong.

rteest42

Yep, I am so very lost, you guys carry on now...
Maybe I will be able to do a bit of reading up between now and hitting someplace to shoot, or at least if I read over and over and over what you have all stated already.... well, yeah....

But thanks, and I didn't mean to interrupt. Carry on.

LiquidAir

My first bit of advice is to practice before you go into the field. The best results are when there is absolutely no camera movement between frames.

As for bracketing:
If I am shooting quickly I use three shots spaced by 1 2/3 stops. I set the camera to CWA metering which I think does a better job at finding the center exposure than than the camera's smart metering mode which can be a bit erratic in high dynamic range situations. I use a TC-80N controller which, properly set up lets me fire all three exposures with one press of the button, limiting the risk that the camera moves between frames. If I want my shots closer together than 2 stops (this is Canon), I shoot a 3 exposure bracket at 2 stops, then I adjust the exposure by one stop and shoot again to fill in the gaps.

kdog

LiquidAir wrote: »

I use a TC-80N controller which, properly set up lets me fire all three exposures with one press of the button, limiting the risk that the camera moves between frames.

I just set the camera in 2 second timer mode which allow any vibration to settle out and then fires off the burst.

Numbers Guy

I have been playing with HDR off and on for the past year, and experience has taught me that 3 shots isn't always quite enough. You can easily shoot too many in the field and toss what you don't need, but you cannot go back and grab that missing exposure.

I do it one of two ways with my Canon. 1) Two bursts in auto-bracket mode, the first at -2, 0, +2 and the second at -1, 0, +1 or 2) manually starting at -2 and doing 2/3 stop increments up to +2 (mentioned by another poster).

I've been using Photomatix for processing and tried a 30-day trial of HDR Expose, but just couldn't get into that one. Photomatix gets me there 80% of the time but didn't always do the trick. Last week I stumbled across Enfuse (Google Enfuse GUI) and am very impressed for simple free software.

Below is a 3 bracket Yosemite sunrise shot that never looked right in Photomatix but Enfuse handled well. (-2/3, +2/3, +2). After that is a 6 exposure shot from last night starting at -2 and stepping up 2/3 for each subsequent shot.