We may, can't say if we'll do this or not. Right now, the overwhelming responses are coming in saying 'glad you did it this way' - of course, we'll keep monitoring!
Can't we have the best of both worlds?
Have you considered a setting on the account that indicates whether the site owner would like new features to default to on or off? That way I can set them to "off" and add them if I decide I like them, and site owners who like to immediately use your new features can set the new features to default to "on".
In fact, the only reason I have easy share on is so I can use it when logged in. It's turned off via CSS. I could argue that this problem started with easy share - a gallery owner should always be able to share when logged in. If it hadn't been on, I wouldn't have even run into this problem, would I?
The tweet and facebook buttons are not the first thing I didn't want to use. In fact the first was the square thumbs - which I was able to get rid of by always starting with a set of default settings. There are more, just can't remember them at the moment.
If we'd make it opt-in, so many would never, ever see it for a long time.
I personally have no real problem with these buttons with the exception of the bug where the custom domain link actually takes the clicker to the smugmug home page (hopefully that will get fixed soon or I will definitely remove the buttons).
However, being the "owner" of my pro site should allow me the comfort of knowing that nothing is going on behind the scenes that will affect my site visually to my customers without me knowing about it. I, like many others have stated, do not visit my site daily due to time constraints. And, when top secret features are implemented on a random Thursday night/Friday morning, I may not learn about it for a few days. Once I do, then I'll have to take the extra time (albeit minor in the eyes of Andy) to divert from whatever I was intending to do to turn off the unwanted feature.
Catering to those who procrastinate in turning on optional features seems a bit smug to me. If there is the option to opt-in, then it's those people who procrastinate in turning on the feature who lose the benefit of that feature......their bad. I, however, can go about my merry business knowing that my site has not been changed visually without my knowing or approval.
which is why we made the news items appear on -any- page you own when you get to it when logged in
I only ever see news items on my homepage, and possibly All Galleries page. I'm always still logged in from another visit, though. And there have been a lot of things rolled out where there was no message about it until days later. I also have gotten emails about UserVoice requests that have been completed.... but actually months after they were completed. Still though... none of this is really the main point.
The main point is, who could possibly be offended, hurt, or unhappy about things being done the other way around? These gripes happen after every visual addition to people's sites, and they just wouldn't happen if opt-in was not default. I think people would much rather hear honest, educated responses to that from above, rather than focus on all the peripheral details. Otherwise, their take is... that point just isn't heard. If it were something necessary; a site-wide fix, etc. of course that's a different animal. Clearly a "like" button is not a necessary item that has to appear before such & such time or we are doomed. So if visual additions were off by default til people at least woke up & mulled it over a bit, you'd be hearing no grief.
The main point is, who could possibly be offended, hurt, or unhappy about things being done the other way around? These gripes happen after every visual addition to people's sites, and they just wouldn't happen if opt-in was not default.
In fact, the only reason I have easy share on is so I can use it when logged in. It's turned off via CSS. I could argue that this problem started with easy share - a gallery owner should always be able to share when logged in. If it hadn't been on, I wouldn't have even run into this problem, would I?
Yes! I have easy share enabled in some galleries strictly so that I can share photos in forums for critiques, etc. That, to my mind, should be separate from the facebook/twitter opt-in, but at this time it doesn't seem that's possible. Please do correct me if I'm wrong.
I also agree that owners should always have the option to share, even when we don't want visitors to have the ability.
I understand, ... no offense, and as silly as this sounds;
Frankly I doubt I will get that pro active into my website. heck I dont even really care if its ever visited... Its just a place for me to look back upon when it comes down to it....
now for the cheese, I love Dgrin, & Smugmug, & all the Heros. Andy, thank's for all you do! I do appreciate what you put into it.
Just adding my voice in agreement with the opt in vs opt out suggestions.
Also..
Yes! I have easy share enabled in some galleries strictly so that I can share photos in forums for critiques, etc. That, to my mind, should be separate from the facebook/twitter opt-in, but at this time it doesn't seem that's possible. Please do correct me if I'm wrong.
I also agree that owners should always have the option to share, even when we don't want visitors to have the ability.
The Facebook and Twitter buttons can be hidden separately from the Share button with CSS on a gallery by gallery basis if you want.
Not everyone is always logged into their site. I know I dont stay logged in since Im always on the go using multiple devices, so that isnt always informative to many many others too I'd imagine.
Is there anyway of checking who clicked the LIKE button? I like how you can go to the control panel to see if somebody commented on a gallery. I was wondering if there is a feature like that for the Facebook clicks.
I couldn't agree more with Denise and others above. One of the main reason I set up a Smugmug account is that I can choose not to have all that social stuff around my site.
I still want to be in control of these things - so in my opinion the default settings should be off.
I think what Andy alluded to earlier is that this is a business decision for smugmug, which does not equate with what the users want. We may all want an optional feature, but making it optional rolls it out slowly and maybe smugmug wants to keep aheaad of the pack in the feature race. So it is a balancing act for smugmug.
I personally don't mind the current approach. I am happy to test new features and then decide.
I think what Andy alluded to earlier is that this is a business decision for smugmug, which does not equate with what the users want.
I'll correct you - "with what ALL users want" - but based on the reactions thus far, so many are happy we've done this. I'm also glad we put in the 'turn off' button that makes it dead simple easy for those that don't want it, to not have it
I think what Andy alluded to earlier is that this is a business decision for smugmug, which does not equate with what the users want. We may all want an optional feature, but making it optional rolls it out slowly and maybe smugmug wants to keep aheaad of the pack in the feature race. So it is a balancing act for smugmug.
I personally don't mind the current approach. I am happy to test new features and then decide.
LiflanderPhotography.com
I don't buy this. Lots of customers who have carefully customized their site want to be in control of when that changes. Smugmug is consciously deciding to change those customer's sites without telling them in advance or giving them any advance choice in the matter. Apparently, if you don't read Smugmug release notes within hours of when Smugmug releases new features and respond accordingly, you will not be in control of how your site looks. If that's the official policy and that's how they've decided they're going to do it, then they should just state that that's how it works and the customers who don't want that can decide if they should find another option that gives them more control over how/when they site is changed.
I'll correct you - "with what ALL users want" - but based on the reactions thus far, so many are happy we've done this. I'm also glad we put in the 'turn off' button that makes it dead simple easy for those that don't want it, to not have it
I'm glad it was easy to turn off.
But I'm not happy that it showed up on my site at all. I'm with John on this - let me opt in to new features on my own time. If I miss something, so be it. I'd rather miss a feature than have something I don't want on my site suddenly appear.
I'll correct you - "with what ALL users want" - but based on the reactions thus far, so many are happy we've done this. I'm also glad we put in the 'turn off' button that makes it dead simple easy for those that don't want it, to not have it
You could have also prompted folks when they come to their logged in site and ask them if they want these new buttons and those who are currently happy could continue to be happy and those who want control over when their site changes could have that control. There is a win/win solution here. The question is whether you choose to offer it or not.
Same here. I repeat what I said earlier: " ...The main point is, who could possibly be offended, hurt, or unhappy about things being done the other way around? (i.e. opt-out would be the default) These gripes happen after every visual addition to people's sites, and they just wouldn't happen if opt-in was not default...." I still feel, and will always feel, that this just isn't how you treat your pros. Or any paying client. Not with something so UN-necessary as some Facebook button. It just makes SmugMug look like it's kow-towing to the giant if it just HAS to put these buttons on everyone's pages immediately by default.
Thanks Anna Lisa and John, and all for your passionate comments! We love it. In the end, we had to make a decision and opt-in assures maximum uptake on this, and our feeling was that giving the off-button in control panel was a good compromise for those that don't want it.
Thanks Anna Lisa and John, and all for your passionate comments! We love it. In the end, we had to make a decision and opt-in assures maximum uptake on this, and our feeling was that giving the off-button in control panel was a good compromise for those that don't want it.
Thanks again!
Why is "maximum uptake" your goal? And, why is that more important than allowing customers to control when their site changes? Are you worried that if customers were given a choice, some would opt-out and that would somehow be bad for you? I don't understand.
I don't buy this. Lots of customers who have carefully customized their site want to be in control of when that changes. Smugmug is consciously deciding to change those customer's sites without telling them in advance or giving them any advance choice in the matter. Apparently, if you don't read Smugmug release notes within hours of when Smugmug releases new features and respond accordingly, you will not be in control of how your site looks. If that's the official policy and that's how they've decided they're going to do it, then they should just state that that's how it works and the customers who don't want that can decide if they should find another option that gives them more control over how/when they site is changed.
Heh - it was you (and others) that told us to be better about notifying - so we built a notification system, much like you have at online banking and other sites, when you show up on your site, logged in, you get a notice - that tells you exactly what we added and changed - and has a link to the release note, help pages, etc - so you can see what's new and you can act.
Heh - it was you (and others) that told us to be better about notifying - so we built a notification system, much like you have at online banking and other sites, when you show up on your site, logged in, you get a notice - that tells you exactly what we added and changed - and has a link to the release note, help pages, etc - so you can see what's new and you can act.
And I for one, am glad you pushed us to this
I'll stand by my statements/questions in posts #51 and 54 - neither of which you've responded to.
I'll correct you - "with what ALL users want" - but based on the reactions thus far, so many are happy we've done this. I'm also glad we put in the 'turn off' button that makes it dead simple easy for those that don't want it, to not have it
Andy, I don't want the feature, I was unhappy to see it implemented on MY site with zero notice, and in fact the off button you seem so proud of still does not work, many days after this "feature" was implemented. (Go to any keyword gallery, for instance, to check for yourself. It takes CSS coding to suppress the unwanted buttons).
Having an opt-out policy seems ridiculous to me, particularly when smugmug's new "features" are as unfinished and untested as this one is. Nothing about it, starting at the ability to turn it on or off, works. By having an opt-out policy, smugmug is effectively forcing its subscribers to do really early beta testing. NOT cool.
Andy, I don't want the feature, I was unhappy to see it implemented on MY site with zero notice, and in fact the off button you seem so proud of still does not work, many days after this "feature" was implemented. (Go to any keyword gallery, for instance, to check for yourself. It takes CSS coding to suppress the unwanted buttons).
Having an opt-out policy seems ridiculous to me, particularly when smugmug's new "features" are as unfinished and untested as this one is. Nothing about it, starting at the ability to turn it on or off, works. By having an opt-out policy, smugmug is effectively forcing its subscribers to do really early beta testing. NOT cool.
We're fixing that bug, it surely wasn't our intention to have it in keyword or date galleries but we're fixing it this week. Thanks.
I'm also glad we put in the 'turn off' button that makes it dead simple easy for those that don't want it, to not have it
Thanks for acknowledging that the 'turn off' button is not only not "dead simple", it simply does not work. If you'd done that a week or so ago, people might not be so frustrated. It's indescribably annoying to putz with unwanted broken features while the folks who forced them upon you pat themselves on the back for a job well done.
Thanks for acknowledging that the 'turn off' button is not only not "dead simple", it simply does not work. If you'd done that a week or so ago, people might not be so frustrated. It's indescribably annoying to putz with unwanted broken features while the folks who forced them upon you pat themselves on the back for a job well done.
Oh we have, it's been posted in our bug forum a couple times this week here on Dgrin. We'll fix it.
Comments
Have you considered a setting on the account that indicates whether the site owner would like new features to default to on or off? That way I can set them to "off" and add them if I decide I like them, and site owners who like to immediately use your new features can set the new features to default to "on".
In fact, the only reason I have easy share on is so I can use it when logged in. It's turned off via CSS. I could argue that this problem started with easy share - a gallery owner should always be able to share when logged in. If it hadn't been on, I wouldn't have even run into this problem, would I?
The tweet and facebook buttons are not the first thing I didn't want to use. In fact the first was the square thumbs - which I was able to get rid of by always starting with a set of default settings. There are more, just can't remember them at the moment.
--- Denise
Musings & ramblings at https://denisegoldberg.blogspot.com
I personally have no real problem with these buttons with the exception of the bug where the custom domain link actually takes the clicker to the smugmug home page (hopefully that will get fixed soon or I will definitely remove the buttons).
However, being the "owner" of my pro site should allow me the comfort of knowing that nothing is going on behind the scenes that will affect my site visually to my customers without me knowing about it. I, like many others have stated, do not visit my site daily due to time constraints. And, when top secret features are implemented on a random Thursday night/Friday morning, I may not learn about it for a few days. Once I do, then I'll have to take the extra time (albeit minor in the eyes of Andy) to divert from whatever I was intending to do to turn off the unwanted feature.
Catering to those who procrastinate in turning on optional features seems a bit smug to me. If there is the option to opt-in, then it's those people who procrastinate in turning on the feature who lose the benefit of that feature......their bad. I, however, can go about my merry business knowing that my site has not been changed visually without my knowing or approval.
-Danny
dannyberryphotography.com
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The main point is, who could possibly be offended, hurt, or unhappy about things being done the other way around? These gripes happen after every visual addition to people's sites, and they just wouldn't happen if opt-in was not default. I think people would much rather hear honest, educated responses to that from above, rather than focus on all the peripheral details. Otherwise, their take is... that point just isn't heard. If it were something necessary; a site-wide fix, etc. of course that's a different animal. Clearly a "like" button is not a necessary item that has to appear before such & such time or we are doomed. So if visual additions were off by default til people at least woke up & mulled it over a bit, you'd be hearing no grief.
DayBreak, my Folk Music Group (some free mp3s!) http://daybreakfolk.com
Here, here!
Also.. Yes! I have easy share enabled in some galleries strictly so that I can share photos in forums for critiques, etc. That, to my mind, should be separate from the facebook/twitter opt-in, but at this time it doesn't seem that's possible. Please do correct me if I'm wrong.
I also agree that owners should always have the option to share, even when we don't want visitors to have the ability.
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Frankly I doubt I will get that pro active into my website. heck I dont even really care if its ever visited... Its just a place for me to look back upon when it comes down to it....
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That would be nice.
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Would it kill you guys to send an email??
I love the buttons but I don't like where they are hanging out...
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I hate the photo bar! I wish it could go away! It's the most obnoxious intrusive thing that ruins a pleasant viewing experience.
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I still want to be in control of these things - so in my opinion the default settings should be off.
I personally don't mind the current approach. I am happy to test new features and then decide.
LiflanderPhotography.com
LiflanderPhotography.com
I'll correct you - "with what ALL users want" - but based on the reactions thus far, so many are happy we've done this. I'm also glad we put in the 'turn off' button that makes it dead simple easy for those that don't want it, to not have it
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But I'm not happy that it showed up on my site at all. I'm with John on this - let me opt in to new features on my own time. If I miss something, so be it. I'd rather miss a feature than have something I don't want on my site suddenly appear.
--- Denise
Musings & ramblings at https://denisegoldberg.blogspot.com
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Thanks again!
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Heh - it was you (and others) that told us to be better about notifying - so we built a notification system, much like you have at online banking and other sites, when you show up on your site, logged in, you get a notice - that tells you exactly what we added and changed - and has a link to the release note, help pages, etc - so you can see what's new and you can act.
And I for one, am glad you pushed us to this
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I will add my vote that I like the idea that they were automatically added!
Monte
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Andy, I don't want the feature, I was unhappy to see it implemented on MY site with zero notice, and in fact the off button you seem so proud of still does not work, many days after this "feature" was implemented. (Go to any keyword gallery, for instance, to check for yourself. It takes CSS coding to suppress the unwanted buttons).
Having an opt-out policy seems ridiculous to me, particularly when smugmug's new "features" are as unfinished and untested as this one is. Nothing about it, starting at the ability to turn it on or off, works. By having an opt-out policy, smugmug is effectively forcing its subscribers to do really early beta testing. NOT cool.
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Thanks for acknowledging that the 'turn off' button is not only not "dead simple", it simply does not work. If you'd done that a week or so ago, people might not be so frustrated. It's indescribably annoying to putz with unwanted broken features while the folks who forced them upon you pat themselves on the back for a job well done.
Oh we have, it's been posted in our bug forum a couple times this week here on Dgrin. We'll fix it.
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