Could get ugly!
About 2 weeks ago, a major communication problem has accured between the photographer and the bride.
Long story short. The bride's wedding date is September 18, 2010 (Saturday). She (bride) wants to do her bridal session on September 17th (day before her wedding). The photographer has a wedding on September 17th and cannot do it on that day. There is a contract. The contract say's she must do the bridal session before August 18, 2010 (1 month before the wedding). She got really upset and told the photographer not to show up at her wedding. The bride has paid everything in full ($3,800). The photographer has reserved the date September 18, 2010 for over 1 1/2 years. The photographer sent her a "cancellation of contract", saying she has lost her deposit and the photographer is not responsible for photographing the wedding. She refuses to sign. The photographer then called her and said "if you don't sign, I will show up at your wedding because we still have a valid contract". Her response was "if you show up at my wedding you will be trespassing", and hung up the phone.
This is what I suggested to the photographer. Show up at the wedding and be professional. If you are ask to leave, then leave in a professional way. The reason suggested for him to show up, so the bride breaches the contract, not the photographer. If the photographer does not show up, one could assume the bride could later say "I want my money back because he didn't show up for my wedding".
What you would do if you were the photographer?
Long story short. The bride's wedding date is September 18, 2010 (Saturday). She (bride) wants to do her bridal session on September 17th (day before her wedding). The photographer has a wedding on September 17th and cannot do it on that day. There is a contract. The contract say's she must do the bridal session before August 18, 2010 (1 month before the wedding). She got really upset and told the photographer not to show up at her wedding. The bride has paid everything in full ($3,800). The photographer has reserved the date September 18, 2010 for over 1 1/2 years. The photographer sent her a "cancellation of contract", saying she has lost her deposit and the photographer is not responsible for photographing the wedding. She refuses to sign. The photographer then called her and said "if you don't sign, I will show up at your wedding because we still have a valid contract". Her response was "if you show up at my wedding you will be trespassing", and hung up the phone.
This is what I suggested to the photographer. Show up at the wedding and be professional. If you are ask to leave, then leave in a professional way. The reason suggested for him to show up, so the bride breaches the contract, not the photographer. If the photographer does not show up, one could assume the bride could later say "I want my money back because he didn't show up for my wedding".
What you would do if you were the photographer?
0
Comments
I would start an interview asking why I am to leave I have a signed and paid contract and have a copy in hand to be videoed.....
would not be snarky or condescending, always very professional and curteous...let the opthers show their A** so to speak.......
The bride has a copy of the signed contract and there is no excuse for her trying to be this way..........if there was an emergency that made the
original date impossible to hold that is one thing if not then that is her problem........I might ask for another 250 or 500 to hire someone else to shoot the
Bridal session in my place since I am already contracted to do another wedding that day...........
May I ask how you are involved in all that?
Then the photographer turned a scheduling problem into a communication problem by pulling out the contract instead of offering to solve the problem by eg sending another photographer.
Now emotions are running high. Perhaps someone could mediate. Whoever is paying for this gig is not going to welcome the bride's decision to flush 4k$ on a whim.
The photographer needs to settle this down. No photographer needs the bad publicity. The photographer may end up with the money but likely loses a lot of future business. The bride tells this story and in her current version the photographer is the villein (sic).
How nice it would if the ending was an enthusiastic message from the bride "xyz was a great photographer, the shots are beautiful and he/she fixed the bridal session fantastically after I messed up the dates". I fear the opportunity for this happy ending is lost forever.
What would I do? Beg forgiveness for my lousy behavior, grovel about forgetting the bridal session, and offer to solve her problem.
Jeff
-Need help with Dgrin?; Wedding Photography Resources
-My Website - Blog - Tips for Senior Portraiture
Hopefully the situation can be salvaged, it seems like the photog should just be the bigger person and apologize to make her happy so that if he does shoot the wedding - her images won't suffer from the animosity between them.
ONE QUESTION: What's the problem??
A contract signed A YEAR AND A HALF ago stated what was expected...and she chose to not follow through. He did what was required by returning the deposit. End of THAT story. Now that she won't sign a cancellation notice, puts her in an even more precarious position. I'd show and attempt to provide services, period. Better make damn sure you have a video record of it, however, because the proverbial "Fit's gonna hit the Shan".
JL-Images
www.jl-images.smugmug.com
Ummm . . . maybe I missed where the photographer returned the money . ? Don't think so.
Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
I hate this attitude. People put so much concern on who is right. I just don't get it! Who really cares, right? They both suffer for it. If he was smart he would try to get her to cover a replacement or split it with her or just pay it out of pocket. The bad press from this isn't going to be worth the paid vacation. Something like this gets around. He is being a fool by not trying to work this all out for her. This should have never gotten this far IMHO.
Matt
Bodies: Canon 5d mkII, 5d, 40d
Lenses: 24-70 f2.8L, 70-200 f4.0L, 135 f2L, 85 f1.8, 50 1.8, 100 f2.8 macro, Tamron 28-105 f2.8
Flash: 2x 580 exII, Canon ST-E2, 2x Pocket Wizard flexTT5, and some lower end studio strobes
Hello Art,
Thank you for the suggestion. He is thinking about doing the video. If he does show up at the wedding, I suggested to hide the video so that it does not circumvent the situation.
Your feedback was greatly appreciated.
Hello Angie,
The contract states that the contracting party (bride) is to contact the photographer and schedule her bridal session before August 18, 2010. Out of courtesy, the photographer told me he sent an email to her in June to give her a heads up. But he did not hear back from her.
Sure you can ask if I'm involved
Hello Christopher,
I sense that you are very customer service orientated. And I respect that!!!!
First, I disagree with Angie (as you agreed with Angie). It was not the photographers responsibility to schedule the session, it was the brides (as per contract). Nor was it the photographer that brought on this problem.......let me explain.......
This is my guess on why I think no solution was possible.......the bride would only agree to do the bridal session the day before her wedding because it had something to do with her hair. I think she was having it lengthened and she didn't want to pay twice. The photographer did suggest another day, but she would not agree.
Per your solution. If you where the photographer, I don't understand why you feel you have given "lousy behavior" and why you would "beg forgiveness".
Your feedback was greatly appreciated.
Hello Molly,
Wow! Your looking at this very rational from both sides (bride and photographer).
I feel the bride is making this a 100% emotional reaction. And the photographer is 100% unsure what to do. Not a good chemistry
Another suggestion I told him to do is call the bride next week. Give her options instead of doing the bridal session (ie. prints).
My heart of hearts tells me they shouldn't work together on the wedding day. There's been toooooo much negativity said from both sides.
Your feedback was greatly appreciated.
He has not returned the money ($3,800). He thinks she is going to ask for it back AFTER her wedding. She will not sign a "cancellation of contract". The cancellation of contract say's she has lost her deposit and the photographer is not responsible for photographing the wedding.
And she couldn't move her hair appointment? Even if it was to an earlier day the week of her wedding.
Planning an event like a wedding 1.5 years in advance is pretty difficult and she probably had no idea when she signed the contract her hair would require that much work. If you think that it is just courtesy sending an email for an appointment, then you're not on the right track I guess. That the photographer didn't get a response should have made him make a phone call, not thinking 'ah well, her problem'. Because now it is his problem as well...
And I'm not a hairdresser, but extensions will stay in for weeks, so maybe do the bridal shots two or three days before the wedding? If the hair piece survives one night, it will probably do for another night. Talk to the bride and the hairdresser... If she sticks to the day before, try to find somebody else to do it for you and charge 10% extra or something.
In any case, just showing up at the wedding waving the contract will probably kill his business opportunities with anybody attending the wedding and with everybody they know.
What a mess...
www.warris.nl/blog
Thanks for reading my post and giving a bit more background.
Your guy is not so experienced, right? When he agreed to leave the date for the bridal session open and firm it up later, surely he pencilled in the day before the wedding as most likely? Not only the hair, but the dress, the out-of-town folks, in the background. No way was this shoot ever going to happen over a month in advance.
Then when he got an opportunity to erase his pencil marks and shoot another wedding the day before, he took the new booking without contacting the first bride. Customers who pay in full a year in advance are to be treasured, not pinged-off by email. When he did not get a reply he should have called in person - anything could have happened, maybe they had even broken up and the wedding was off altogether.
Then his instinct is to reach for the contract instead of solving the problem. Contracts are for cupboards. They are a handy checklist to make sure that you and your customer have touched the main bases and set expectations, but they are not something you ever WANT to enforce in court. Litigation consumes productive time, costs for lawyers, is always bad publicity, and has unpredictable results. I can just picture your guy on Youtube clutching his video!
Photography is a service business and unless your guy is extraordinarily gifted he better realize that part of the package when you run a service business is a good grovel every now and again. Customers can be proper tossers, so can suppliers.
This bride's instincts are sound. I would not want this guy at my wedding even for free.
I do agree that the bride was in the wrong, but a little bit of compromising on the photographer's behalf might save his reputation.
photography facebook
twitter
Allen..are you the photographer??? If not what is your relationship to the photographer and what is your reason for posting?
Are you looking for affirmation of stick to the contract? Are you looking for a solution to the current situation or are you looking for ideas to prevent this from happening in the future?
Sam
MILOStudios
www.milophotostudios.com
Do I really think a photographer with so little business acumen could ask for, and get, a $3400 deposit. No, I don't. Could I be wrong? I usually am:D.
Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
Hello Christopher,
The guy (photographer) has about 12 years experience.
He did not agree to leave any date open. Let me clarify. The contract said she was supposed scheduled her **(bridal session) before August 18, 2010.
**bridal session is photographs of the bridal only. The session last for about an hour.
Not sure if any of this changes your conclusion?
Hello l.k.madison,
Trash the dress session is a great idea!
From what the photographer said, she was very firm and animate about doing the session the day before her wedding (she did not want to bend on any other date).
Thank you again for your ideas!
Hello,
Just a thought........
If you ever decide to do photography as a career, here is my stat on negative experience from 1 person. "When a customer has a bad or negative experience, he or she will tell 7,000,000,000,000 people about it by placing a negative review online".
Thank you for the heads up with considering the "legality of videotaping". And thank you for your feedback!!!!!
You read someone's post that got it wrong. The bridal session was supposed to be done before August 18, 2010. Not the Friday before her wedding (September 18, 2010) as another poster stated.
PS. I'm curious to know why you never schedule more than 1 wedding weekend???
No, I am not the photographer. No, I am not a "troll".
I originated this post because.......over the years, I have found it extremely interesting how the photography service, creativity, and even the customer has changed. The photographer that's going through this situation is very analytical. I'm very emotional. We would handle most situations completely different.
The photographer (this problem is happening too) has around 13 years experience. He photographs seniors, family portraits, and approximately 15 weddings a year. From what he said today, he is going to show up at this brides wedding.
If I was the photographer, I would give her $3,800 back (assuming the bride responded the way he said she did). For me, photography is an emotional process. These types of problems can only escalate. Chances are good it can only escalate on the wedding day. Getting one bad review can ruin a wedding photographer for life, so that's why I'd return the $3,800 and move on.
My experience.....I've been in the wedding business (photography) for almost 21 years. I'm usually booked about 1 1/2 years to 2 years out. For example, I have 2/3 weddings scheduled each weekend through May 20, 2012 (not including November through March). Over 83% of my business is from referrals. All I do is wedding photography and engagement sessions (nothing else). I'm terrible at marketing, so I let my work speak for itself. Not to say I haven't made my mistakes over the years!
My first job was at McDonalds. We had to say "thank you, and please come again" to EVERY customer. Nobody say's that anymore. So again, I was only curious to see how all of you would handle this. As customer service and photography has changed over the years.
Thanks for answering my question.
Here are my thoughts on this situation.
I put the blame (most anyway) on your photographer friend. With the advent of computers and almost instant communication there is no excuse not to be able to track and / or follow up on clients and schedules. He could have easily followed up with a quick e-mail 2 or 3 times during the year and a half lead time, and withing say 2 months remind her of the bridal shoot and a need to schedule it. The issue here is lack of communication. While nether communicated with the other, it really is the responsibility of the business owner to be proactive about his schedule, and communicating with his clients.
Now after the fact when it was known the bride wanted the bridal shoot done the day before the wedding and your friend realized he was booked for that date he should have gone into problem solving mode not read the contract mode.
Several solutions.
1. Do the bridal shoot 2 days before the wedding.
2. Do the bridal shoot after the wedding.
3. Is there enough time for you to shoot the other wedding and the bridal shoot?
4. Can you hire a photographer to ether shoot the other wedding or the bridal shoot?
5. Can you substitute a trash the dress shoot for the bridal shoot?
6. Is it possible to do a reduced bridal shoot on the day of the wedding?
It's hard to tell if your photographer friend set the bride off with a lack of people skills or she is a bridezilla.
Your friend should have been jumping through hoops to fix this situation. Call her, call the groom, call dad, call mom, etc.
I think your friend needs to have an understanding prior to the day of the wedding. Simply showing up without any communication and planning on settling the issue right before the wedding is really asking for trouble.
As for returning money...............While I am not inclined to keep money I didn't earn, I would not return all of the money. I would return an amount equal to any expense I didn't incur such as albums, prints, ect. After all he did keep the date open and couldn't book the date.
Sam