Smug mug and print size and cropping.

cavediver2cavediver2 Registered Users Posts: 8 Beginner grinner
edited August 31, 2010 in SmugMug Support
Okay I am very new to smug mug and DG so I am not sure I am posting this question in the right place so Mod's if it isn't then please move to where it should be.

My question is when I want to upload pictures to SM and sell the prints I don't want the costumer to have to do any cropping. I have emailed SM and they have replied with several answers but I am not getting the right one's or the one's that I can understand.

I have been to other photographer's smugmug pages and look at there's when I by prints from them and all there sizes are correct and do not need cropping. So what are they doing to do this.

I understand that most camera's shoot in 2/3 but when my camera's file is say 2877 x 3177 at my crop point that I like how do i figure out what size it should be to accommodate sizes like 16x20, 11x14,20x30 and such. there has to be a realistic number that I can use to crop everything to so that it will be the right size crop for those numbers and even 8x10,5x7, and such.

Or better yet is there a program other than in lightroom or PS that will do this for me. I am not very math smart so I am trying to learn this my self on pen and paper.

If i send these files to a lab and they print them there is someone sitting at a computer and has a program or knows the math and figures out what would be the best crop for say a 16x20 print.

I have tired with PS or LR and if I take a file of 2877 x 3177 and try to crop it for a 16 x20 print I can't make it work. I have inlarged the picture and then try to crop for 16x20 but then the picture does not turn out clean.

Please please some one help my with this. I would like to be able to sell on smugmug and not have to take to my local Lab to have my prints done. I have a wedding next week and would like to be able to have them print them from smug mug and not to have to send to local lab.

Thanks ahead of time to any and all that can help me with my understanding cropping.

cavediver2

Comments

  • jfriendjfriend Registered Users Posts: 8,097 Major grins
    edited August 30, 2010
    There is no such thing as a crop for your image that works for all print sizes. A 5x5 print needs a square crop (1:1 aspect ratio). A 20x30 print needs an image with a 3:2 aspect ratio (length is 1.5 times as long as width).

    The only way you can only have prints for sale that require no cropping is to only offer print sizes for sale of all the same aspect ratio (like 4x6, 8x12, 12x18, 20x30, etc...) and then make sure all other sizes are not offered and that your image matches the aspect ratio you've selected.

    For example, there is no single image that fits a 4x6 and a 5x7 and and 8x10 without cropping. All three of those sizes require different aspect ratio images.

    If you have a pro account at Smugmug, you can configure your galleries for proof delay. When proof delay is set, you will be notified when an order is placed and you can then review that order, including the crop set for any given print and you can correct the crop if needed before the print is made.

    In pretty much all photo editing tools (including Photoshop and Lightroom), you can configure the crop tool to match any desired print size, but you may not need to do this before you upload to Smugmug because uploading all your pixels without cropping to an exact print size before you upload gives you more options for more different sizes prints once the image is on Smugmug. If you crop it exactly for one particular print size (and throw away some of the pixels in the process), then you will compromise your ability to print other sizes with different aspect ratios.
    --John
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  • cavediver2cavediver2 Registered Users Posts: 8 Beginner grinner
    edited August 30, 2010
    jfriend wrote: »
    There is no such thing as a crop for your image that works for all print sizes. A 5x5 print needs a square crop (1:1 aspect ratio). A 20x30 print needs an image with a 3:2 aspect ratio (length is 1.5 times as long as width).

    The only way you can only have prints for sale that require no cropping is to only offer print sizes for sale of all the same aspect ratio (like 4x6, 8x12, 12x18, 20x30, etc...) and then make sure all other sizes are not offered and that your image matches the aspect ratio you've selected.

    For example, there is no single image that fits a 4x6 and a 5x7 and and 8x10 without cropping. All three of those sizes require different aspect ratio images.

    If you have a pro account at Smugmug, you can configure your galleries for proof delay. When proof delay is set, you will be notified when an order is placed and you can then review that order, including the crop set for any given print and you can correct the crop if needed before the print is made.

    In pretty much all photo editing tools (including Photoshop and Lightroom), you can configure the crop tool to match any desired print size, but you may not need to do this before you upload to Smugmug because uploading all your pixels without cropping to an exact print size before you upload gives you more options for more different sizes prints once the image is on Smugmug. If you crop it exactly for one particular print size (and throw away some of the pixels in the process), then you will compromise your ability to print other sizes with different aspect ratios.

    So Jfriend is it better just to leave it in a big file and let the customer to the cropping? that way it give them more opportunities to print different things in your opinion..
  • jfriendjfriend Registered Users Posts: 8,097 Major grins
    edited August 30, 2010
    cavediver2 wrote: »
    So Jfriend is it better just to leave it in a big file and let the customer to the cropping? that way it give them more opportunities to print different things in your opinion..
    Yes. And, if you set proof delay you can check on each order before it's processed and make sure the customer didn't mess up the crop.
    --John
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  • KickthefogKickthefog Registered Users Posts: 7 Beginner grinner
    edited August 30, 2010
    Cropping for size
    Jfriend, May i please ask for some clarification?

    My issue is similiar to Cavediver's. I tend to crop photo's in lightroom and, probably like most of us, i like to crop them "perfect" so that the shot shows exactly what i had envisioned during the shoot. If the customer buys a 4x6 or a 20x30 so it has the same aspect ratio as my camera (2:3), i'm home free. That much i understand. I also underdstand that if they order a 5x7 or an 8x10 or 11x14, then there are 3 other sizes or crops to contend with. So, I have my photo cropped "PERFECT" so it is just beautiful and then the other person comes along and no matter how they crop it.. it just ruins the photo becuase something is being trimmed or i end up with white lines on the edges if they choose no crop. I guess my math stinks becuase my question is what aspect ratio is the "largest"? meaning... if i set my aspect ratio to a ratio that is bigger than most of the other options, and then crop to my liking at that large aspect ratio... then they could pick any or at least alot of the other smaller ratios and it would just add space to, or slightly squish to important parts of the photo instead of cutting off the important parts. Now i know this means that i have to leave more room for this cropping of multiple aspect ratios, but i'm thinking there must be a best case starter ratio to use and then if i leave plenty of room and settle on a final composition, that when they choose a crop of most ratios, they will not cut off important parts. yes? Am i making sense or being stupid? or both!?? hahaha thanks for any help.
    Pat
  • jfriendjfriend Registered Users Posts: 8,097 Major grins
    edited August 30, 2010
    Kickthefog wrote: »
    Jfriend, May i please ask for some clarification?

    My issue is similiar to Cavediver's. I tend to crop photo's in lightroom and, probably like most of us, i like to crop them "perfect" so that the shot shows exactly what i had envisioned during the shoot. If the customer buys a 4x6 or a 20x30 so it has the same aspect ratio as my camera (2:3), i'm home free. That much i understand. I also underdstand that if they order a 5x7 or an 8x10 or 11x14, then there are 3 other sizes or crops to contend with. So, I have my photo cropped "PERFECT" so it is just beautiful and then the other person comes along and no matter how they crop it.. it just ruins the photo becuase something is being trimmed or i end up with white lines on the edges if they choose no crop. I guess my math stinks becuase my question is what aspect ratio is the "largest"? meaning... if i set my aspect ratio to a ratio that is bigger than most of the other options, and then crop to my liking at that large aspect ratio... then they could pick any or at least alot of the other smaller ratios and it would just add space to, or slightly squish to important parts of the photo instead of cutting off the important parts. Now i know this means that i have to leave more room for this cropping of multiple aspect ratios, but i'm thinking there must be a best case starter ratio to use and then if i leave plenty of room and settle on a final composition, that when they choose a crop of most ratios, they will not cut off important parts. yes? Am i making sense or being stupid? or both!?? hahaha thanks for any help.
    Pat
    There is no largest crop ratio. They are just all different. Some cause things to be cropped off the long edge. Some cause things to be cropped off the short edge. You have a couple possibilities.

    1) I find that the 3:2 crop ratio is a good starting point and what comes out of my camera so chances are that's what I composed for. It matches a bunch of sizes exactly like 4x6, 8x12, 12x18, 20x30, etc... (making it easy for your customers) and most other sizes need some cropping off the long edge. 8x10 is actually one of the worst sizes because it needs the most cropping off the long edge (to make the image more square).

    2) If you really want to enable all print sizes, then you need to allow a little looser cropping in both your original composure at the time you take the shot and in your post processing. In particular, you will need some throw-away pixels on the long edge for some sizes. You must allow for that.

    3) Set proof delay so you can preview everything your customers have ordered before it's printed. There are certainly many customers who just accept the default crop and that may not be ideal for the photo. You can correct/optimize the crops before they are printed.

    4) If something you uploaded just won't make a good 8x10, but you have a looser crop on your computer that could better be used for an 8x10, you can replace the photo at proof delay time with one that makes a better 8x10 and then set the crop in the cart after that. So, you can "fix" it after their order has been placed if you have more pixels on your computer.

    5) Consider whether you really want to enable all print sizes. I'd argue that if you're shooting a dSLR with 3:2 ratio, then you probably do not need to offer any of the "Compact Camera Sizes" and maybe not any of the "Other Sizes". Simplifying the choices to things that are simpler for the customer might be a good idea too. The dreaded 8x10 is probably always popular though (because frames are so readily available and it's such a well known size) so you may be stuck with that.
    --John
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  • KickthefogKickthefog Registered Users Posts: 7 Beginner grinner
    edited August 31, 2010
    jfriend wrote: »
    There is no largest crop ratio. They are just all different. Some cause things to be cropped off the long edge. Some cause things to be cropped off the short edge. You have a couple possibilities.

    1) I find that the 3:2 crop ratio is a good starting point and what comes out of my camera so chances are that's what I composed for. It matches a bunch of sizes exactly like 4x6, 8x12, 12x18, 20x30, etc... (making it easy for your customers) and most other sizes need some cropping off the long edge. 8x10 is actually one of the worst sizes because it needs the most cropping off the long edge (to make the image more square).

    2) If you really want to enable all print sizes, then you need to allow a little looser cropping in both your original composure at the time you take the shot and in your post processing. In particular, you will need some throw-away pixels on the long edge for some sizes. You must allow for that.

    3) Set proof delay so you can preview everything your customers have ordered before it's printed. There are certainly many customers who just accept the default crop and that may not be ideal for the photo. You can correct/optimize the crops before they are printed.

    4) If something you uploaded just won't make a good 8x10, but you have a looser crop on your computer that could better be used for an 8x10, you can replace the photo at proof delay time with one that makes a better 8x10 and then set the crop in the cart after that. So, you can "fix" it after their order has been placed if you have more pixels on your computer.

    5) Consider whether you really want to enable all print sizes. I'd argue that if you're shooting a dSLR with 3:2 ratio, then you probably do not need to offer any of the "Compact Camera Sizes" and maybe not any of the "Other Sizes". Simplifying the choices to things that are simpler for the customer might be a good idea too. The dreaded 8x10 is probably always popular though (because frames are so readily available and it's such a well known size) so you may be stuck with that.

    Thansk so much JFriend. i appreciate your time and help. I have a better understanding of how to attack it now. Funny...I've been taking pictures for so many years and until this year i didn't realize i never really printed any in any other sizes than 4x6 or 11x14. So all this time... I've been lucky and never really been exposed to this aspect issue until i started selling with Smugmug. thanks again. Pat
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