Canon 7D vs 60D

RYSCoach

I am looking to upgrade from my Canon Rebel XS and given I have a couple of EF-S lens, I have narrowed my search down to either the 7D or the 60D.

I know the 60D is brand new so users who have it will be tough to find but I am trying to justify the extra cost of the 7D.

I could use the extra money to get a better lens.

Thoughts?

Ric Grupe

RYSCoach wrote: »

I am looking to upgrade from my Canon Rebel XS and given I have a couple of EF-S lens, I have narrowed my search down to either the 7D or the 60D.

I know the 60D is brand new so users who have it will be tough to find but I am trying to justify the extra cost of the 7D.

I could use the extra money to get a better lens.

Thoughts?

Having two 7Ds and reading about the 60D...7D.

I spent (wasted) more money over the years not getting better first.

e-Scape Photo

60D is actually more expensive on some UK websites... so no brainer... 7D!

RYSCoach

e-Scape Photo wrote: »

60D is actually more expensive on some UK websites... so no brainer... 7D!

In the US, the the 60D is about $1,100 vs $1,550 for the 7D.

ziggy53

For a sports application the 7D may be a better choice. It has a more advanced AF which most agree is an upgrade over the 50D AF section, which is what the 60D appears to use. The 7D also has dual image processors vs single image processor in the 60D. The second image processor appears to be used for exclusive AF processing during acquisition in the 7D. The 7D also has much faster frame rate, although it is not clear about other measures of "responsiveness" relating to the 60D.

A 1D series Canon is still the recommended Canon sports camera and only the 1D/1Ds series cameras have the responsiveness of that class of camera and only they have the Area SIR AF sensor, which is a tremendous advantage in sports shooting, especially indoors and night sports.

A 1D MKII or MKIIN is still a tough camera to beat for a sports application on a budget.

RYSCoach

The 1D is an older model, right?. I am having trouble finding any current info on it.

racer

I would hold off until there are many solid reviews out on the 60d before you make a decission. In my opinion, a better lens is more important then any difference between the 7d or 60d, but I wouldnt want to say to buy a 60d, then it end up being the worst camera in canon history. I would even go as far as saying that, if you are using the cheaper lenses, like the kit lens, keep the Rebel XS, and spend the $1500 on a "L" lens! Using the Rebel XS with a L lens will give you much better image quality then if you were to use the 60d or 7d with a kit lens, and I can think of 5 or so awesome L lenses in the price range

ziggy53

RYSCoach wrote: »

The 1D is an older model, right?. I am having trouble finding any current info on it.

Yes, the Canon 1D MKII was announced in middle 2004 and generally available (most were sold) in late 2004 and early 2005. I have 2 copies and they are very nice cameras with very professional features and performance. They still feel modern when you shoot with them. Some people complain about the 8 MPix image size, but in sports the AF speed and AF accuracy is everything. It would couple nicely to the EF 85mm, f1.8 USM that you have and it provides a wider angle-of-view than the Canon crop 1.6x sensors, like your current camera and the 7D and 60D. The 1D/1Ds series are also pretty heavy cameras, but it's something you get used to. (I should add that the 1D series cameras are a crop 1.3x/APS-H format. The 1Ds are FF format.)

To ISO 800 is very nice and ISO 1600 is very usable for sports. Some post-processing noise reduction is generally advised for ISO 1600. For action sports and using AI-Servo I generally used 1 bump less in AF sensitivity, but if you should get a 1D MKIIN then that is not needed.

If you want, Sports Illustrated still has their setup information for the Canon 1D MKII:

http://www.siphoto.com/?canon1DM2.inc

... and you can even load the following file onto a CF card and the camera will automatically set itself to their settings:

http://www.siphoto.com/files/camset_d.csd

For indoor sports you might want to use flash to get better lighting. As long as the flash is not direct, many places allow it. Just bounce the flash off a ceiling or wall to augment available light. It doesn't always work but it often helps. If your ISO is high many players don't even notice the flash.

Stella7d

I went from a Rebel to the 7d and LOVE it!!

poker

I bought a 7D for the speed and weather sealed body. I love it. I had a 30D before then and I feel the XXD series gives you a lot for the money.

If you don't have any L lenses then I would consider getting the less expensive body so you can own some 'real' lenses in the close future.

Can you explain to us why you would even consider the 7D?

colourbox

I have a 7D and what I noticed about the 60D is that it lacks the killer feature autofocus of the 7D and the ability to wireless control multiple flashes (the 60D controls one). If these are important, and you shoot a lot, you want a 7D.

But if you're a more occasional shooter and you don't need that autofocus, the 60D looks like a better value, and if you do a lot of odd angles or video, the swivel screen is something I wish my 7D had.

chrisjohnson

I thought the 60D will take the AF from 7D? Although I take Ziggy's point about the dual processors.

If you can afford 7D it is the better camera - Canon are not stupid.

The point about lenses seems silly. Which lens would you buy for the few hundred dollars difference? A top lens costs as much as the 60D. As a general principle we all favor good glass, but I wonder what is really behind this question. If the OP intends to buy a kit then which one, versus what? Sounds like a question Canon marketeers might ask should they troll forums to get some first feedback on their somewhat challenging market positioning of the new 60D. Sorry RYSCoach - nothing personal.

RYSCoach

golden

I wish I had a job where I'd troll through these boards and gather info for Canon...Actually I wish I had a job...and that's why I am hestitating on dropping any more cash than I really need to...

I am leaning toward the 7D and the dual processor is the main reason.

chrisjohnson

RYSCoach wrote: »

golden

I wish I had a job where I'd troll through these boards and gather info for Canon...Actually I wish I had a job...and that's why I am hestitating on dropping any more cash than I really need to...

I am leaning toward the 7D and the dual processor is the main reason.

Sorry if I offended. The 7D is a great camera by all accounts. I don't see your photos so cannot guess what your needs might be - lots of people take good photos with the Rebel and I think the T2 (550) looks great value. The 60D is in-between - I think it mostly depends what you want to spend. Trusting Canon as I do, I am 99% certain that 60D will be in-between and a good camera, bit better than a Rebel and not quite as good as 7D. I also like the idea to get a 1 series if you can find one second hand for similar money.

With money an issue, my first thought would be to get a better lens for the Rebel rather than change body. Especially now, when nobody knows what a 60D really does and they are at the introduction price. Whatever you do, you can take the lens forward.

Perhaps I should not have posted at all, seeing I have no substantial experience with 7D and none with 60D. Good luck with your quest.

RYSCoach

golden

no worries...not offended...

Just having a hard time deciding if this is something I want to do at more than a hobby...

As bad as spending money that maybe I shouldn't be would be to spend some money but not really get what I need...

penny-wise, pound foolish...

or if I am in for a penny, I should be in for a pound...

divamum

I'll demur and say that if you feel it's the body which is holding you back... get a new body. When I was first taking this more seriously a couple of years ago and wanted to upgrade I was advised to keep my Rebel XT and upgrade the glass, but I jumped to a Rebel Xsi and never looked back. I needed more reliable autofocus, and the ability to crop deeper was a huge bonus too. I then built up my glass, and earlier this year jumped first to a 50d, and then to a 7d. In all cases I scouted around for great deals, sold gear to fund purchases (since I often bought used it meant I didn't lose much to swap things out), and managed to do this "rolling upgrade" fairly painlessly. There are still lenses I want(something I now realise will last forever, no matter what's in the bag!), but I know that, for me, upgrading the body first was ABSOLUTELY the right thing to do.

I'm not saying that glass won't have a bigger impact on image quality, but if it's handling - or specific features - that you're looking to upgrade, then it's definitely reasonable to go with that first.

Have you figured out exactly WHY you want to move to a different body? Each time I upgraded, I had very specific goals and needs in mind, and thus the purchases worked out well.

Fwiw, I now have a 7d and think it's the most functional and accurate Canon camera I've used - I absolutely love it.

ETA: While yes, there are more than a few crop-camera consumer lesnes, "EF-S" doesn't in and of itself indicate lower quality - the 17-55is is one off Canon's highest-regarded lenses, with optics that many feel are "L" grade. Just saying...

poker

RYSCoach wrote: »

I am leaning toward the 7D and the dual processor is the main reason.

Funny, this was never a factor for me buying the camera.

You won't go wrong with either camera unless the 60D lacks features that will prevent you from taking good photos in your niche. I still believe a good lens is more important than a body.

borrowlenses.com

The 7D is a heck of a lot more camera than the 60D, and will cost more accordingly. That said, I know we say this alot, but you can also rent before you buy

Manfr3d

Looks like the 60D has no AF-microadjustement?!

GadgetRick

Manfr3d wrote: »

Looks like the 60D has no AF-microadjustement?!

I'm pretty sure it does as I seem to remember my friend doing it on his.

ziggy53

GadgetRick wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it does as I seem to remember my friend doing it on his.

The Canon 60D was just barely announced. No one actually has one yet.

Manfr3d

GadgetRick wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it does as I seem to remember my friend doing it on his.

Maybe your friend got a 50D? I just double checked and the 60D does not
have micro adjustment (unlike the 50D). There are already numerous
discussions about this on other boards.

GadgetRick

My bad, was in a rush today, thought they were saying the 7D doesn't do it. I have no idea about the 60D.

divamum

GadgetRick wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it does as I seem to remember my friend doing it on his.

Nope... at least not yet. Link here

ETA: Whoops - sorry, got interrupted mid-post and didn't see others had already replied. I'll leave this for the link to the discussion about this, though, since it may be of interest to others.

Brett1000

I think I would be more inclined to get the 7D
(but wait until the 60D reviews !)

SirGeorge

While I do not have a 60D, have shot more than 250K frames on each my to 40Ds shooting sports. I also own a 7D and a1D Mk IV - and there is simply no comparison with a 40Ds and the 7D....save a little more and get hell of a lot more camera...go for the 7D.

Good luck with what ever you choose.

RYSCoach

7D it is...
I finally made my decision and went with the 7D. I also got the 70-200 IS F4. Tempted to go to the 2.8 but couldn't quite bring myself to go that far...

Thanks for the input...

First chance to really try it will be Sat afternoon/evening at my son's football game. We'll see as the sun fade and the lights kick in what differences I'll get.

ziggy53

RYSCoach wrote: »

I finally made my decision and went with the 7D. I also got the 70-200 IS F4. Tempted to go to the 2.8 but couldn't quite bring myself to go that far...

Thanks for the input...

First chance to really try it will be Sat afternoon/evening at my son's football game. We'll see as the sun fade and the lights kick in what differences I'll get.

The EF 70-200mm, f2.8L USM (without IS) is a better choice for football, especially under lights. IS really does little unless you are tracking a run or a tracking a tackle. The f2.8 aperture kicks in the high-sensitivity and higher accuracy of the center AF sensor, allowing faster focus and more accurate focus, regardless of whether you actually shoot at f2.8 or not. This makes a big difference after the sun goes down or indoors.

rpcrowe

GadgetRick wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it does as I seem to remember my friend doing it on his.

Nope it doesn't.

Alsom the AF is not as sophisticated.

This doesn't impact many shooters but, you cannot access HSS from the 60D. I will often carry a little 270EX as a fill flash but, the HSS (important to me when using fill flash) cannot be accessed from the flash and must be accessed from the camera,

Yes it has nice video and has a tilting LCD... However, I never shoot video and don't use live view with my 40D so - these EXTRAS are worthless to me.

The specifications of the 60D excite me as much as reading last years baseball scores (well... not quite as much as those scores).

DPReview.com
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos60d/

"With the 60D Canon has unashamedly moved the X0D range out of the 'semi pro' bracket and instead focused on the enthusiast photographer looking to upgrade from their Rebel. As a result, it's not the obvious continuation of the 30D - 40D - 50D pattern that its naming might suggest. Rather than being a direct upgrade replacement for the 50D, it's perhaps better understood as a 'Super Rebel.'"

"New features: in-camera raw conversion, ambience settings, creative filters, more JPEG options
No joystick, no multi-flash support, simplified (Canonese for watered down) top plate & info panel, only one Custom mode, no AF micro-adjust
Slightly reduced customization options
Redesigned control layout with slightly fewer buttons
Lower burst rate"

JimKarczewski

I'm planning on getting rid of my 5D and 20D and was on the fence about this as well. The items that steered me toward the 7D are:

CF Card, who the hell wants to use SD when I have a huge number of CF already?
Faster frame rate. Reason I keep my 20D around is for sports, that and the 1.6 crop make a nice little sports camera using my 70-200.

Now, upgrading to the 7D will let me keep the speed (60D ain't no slouch, but 1.5fps slower than the 7D) and will enable me to shoot video on 2 camera, not just one.. Which is a good thing to have (along with my MkII)

offcamber

I'd go for the 7D. I bought one as a backup to my 1DMkIII. I found that the AF on my 7d was so much more adjustable and accurate than the MkIII even after the fix. I sold my MkIII and bought a 5dMkII.