If I shoot without lighting I'll need a faster shutter speed to stop the action, will do some more tests today.
At f2.8 I'm guessing you can boost your ISO and be ok with the shutter speed. With the gear you've got you should be able to shoot at ISO 2000+ and that should give you the shutter speeds you're after (at f2.8). I shoot MMA all of the time and that's what I wind up doing.
Started the thread to see if I could try something different but doesn't look like it's feasible. Not sure if you've shot MMA before? If not, you'll find the action to be fast and in spurts. If you fire a burst with speedlights, as you mentioned, you need to allow them to cool off at some point. What happens if you just shot a few bursts and something exciting happens? You'll either overheat the speedlights or miss the shot(s).
If I can't use a strobe which won't overheat, I don't think it makes sense to use speedlights for this reason.
At f2.8 I'm guessing you can boost your ISO and be ok with the shutter speed. With the gear you've got you should be able to shoot at ISO 2000+ and that should give you the shutter speeds you're after (at f2.8). I shoot MMA all of the time and that's what I wind up doing.
Started the thread to see if I could try something different but doesn't look like it's feasible. Not sure if you've shot MMA before? If not, you'll find the action to be fast and in spurts. If you fire a burst with speedlights, as you mentioned, you need to allow them to cool off at some point. What happens if you just shot a few bursts and something exciting happens? You'll either overheat the speedlights or miss the shot(s).
If I can't use a strobe which won't overheat, I don't think it makes sense to use speedlights for this reason.
Did some more tests today swapping out the 5 studio lights and going with 9 speedlights (on camera SB900 + remotes of SB900, SB800x6, SB28). Bursts @ 1/4 power seemed to do fine and gave me plenty of light at 1/250th (sync speed), f/4, ISO800.
Here's results from the last tournament (which is also where I'll be uploading the photos from this weekend:
Nice work. If you have that many flashes and can use them, not a bad idea.
Looking at the gym, if you had to, you could still shoot at f2.8 and a high enough shutter speed to freeze the action there. Certainly for gi BJJ as movements are much slower than in full MMA. But you'd get by with full MMA as well. Might have a photo or two with motion blur but you'd have many more keepers than not.
Looks really nice. Did you go with just the speedlights or did you use your studio strobes too?
Thanks! I'm on my fourth complete setup; experimenting and tweaking each morning and evening so far.
1) SB's hooked to remotes, triggering optical triggers on studio lights, got 1/4pwr on those, sync'd to 1/8000th, 3fps recycle time, overall just not happy with the light
2) 9 SB's, some triggered by remotes, others optically, some powered by quantum batteries, the rest powerex/maha, set to 1/4 pwr. The optical SB's were (of course) sometimes triggered by other cameras, and even though the batteries lasted all day I still felt like a few shots were inconsistent because of those flashes possibly being fired right before I shot.
3) Mixed setup of SB's at 1/2pwr and 1/4pwr, overall just wasn't happy with the consistency.
4) Day Two of the tournament - I scaled down to 5 remote SB's, all hooked to radio remotes and all powered by Quantum Turbo battery packs (plus one SB900 on camera dialed down for fill). Took FOURTEEN HUNDRED photos with this setup today and it was dead on all day long. The flashes fired every time (as far as I can tell), and the batteries lasted all day too. I shutoff the SU4 mode of course so didn't have to worry about any other cameras setting my flashes off.
I'm also taking other photos without the remote flash setup; camera 2 has been using various fast primes, camera 3 usually the 14-24mm f/2.8 or 28-70mm f/2.8 with bounced SB on camera.
Here's a few from today (my job requires a really quick turnaround):
Tomorrow is the finals; and I'm still open to tips/suggestions. They are completely changing the setup and installing the ring tonight with a full lighting setup for TV. My plan for tomorrow is to go with all primes (well, maybe the addictive 70-200), maybe with a TOUCH of on camera flash for fill (I'm thinking like 1/64th).
I'll arrive 3 hours early in the morning to setup and start taking test shots.
Went with ambient and primes for the finals (they setup a ring and it was decently lit). I started at ISO1600, 1/1600th and worked from there (sped up the shutter speed and raised the ISO as the day went on). Covered 16 bouts with one short break, I was the only still camera at ring level:
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At f2.8 I'm guessing you can boost your ISO and be ok with the shutter speed. With the gear you've got you should be able to shoot at ISO 2000+ and that should give you the shutter speeds you're after (at f2.8). I shoot MMA all of the time and that's what I wind up doing.
Started the thread to see if I could try something different but doesn't look like it's feasible. Not sure if you've shot MMA before? If not, you'll find the action to be fast and in spurts. If you fire a burst with speedlights, as you mentioned, you need to allow them to cool off at some point. What happens if you just shot a few bursts and something exciting happens? You'll either overheat the speedlights or miss the shot(s).
If I can't use a strobe which won't overheat, I don't think it makes sense to use speedlights for this reason.
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Did some more tests today swapping out the 5 studio lights and going with 9 speedlights (on camera SB900 + remotes of SB900, SB800x6, SB28). Bursts @ 1/4 power seemed to do fine and gave me plenty of light at 1/250th (sync speed), f/4, ISO800.
Here's results from the last tournament (which is also where I'll be uploading the photos from this weekend:
http://www.fortbenningphotos.com/Competitions/Combatives
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1/250th, ISO800, f/4
Same settings with speedlights all at 1/4 power:
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Looking at the gym, if you had to, you could still shoot at f2.8 and a high enough shutter speed to freeze the action there. Certainly for gi BJJ as movements are much slower than in full MMA. But you'd get by with full MMA as well. Might have a photo or two with motion blur but you'd have many more keepers than not.
Either way, I'm anxious to see your results.
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http://www.fortbenningphotos.com/Competitions/Combatives/2010-10-01-Day-ONE-US-Army/14003111_2eCqD
Here's a view showing the gym with EIGHT bouts going on at a time (462 fighters checked in):
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Thanks! I'm on my fourth complete setup; experimenting and tweaking each morning and evening so far.
1) SB's hooked to remotes, triggering optical triggers on studio lights, got 1/4pwr on those, sync'd to 1/8000th, 3fps recycle time, overall just not happy with the light
2) 9 SB's, some triggered by remotes, others optically, some powered by quantum batteries, the rest powerex/maha, set to 1/4 pwr. The optical SB's were (of course) sometimes triggered by other cameras, and even though the batteries lasted all day I still felt like a few shots were inconsistent because of those flashes possibly being fired right before I shot.
3) Mixed setup of SB's at 1/2pwr and 1/4pwr, overall just wasn't happy with the consistency.
4) Day Two of the tournament - I scaled down to 5 remote SB's, all hooked to radio remotes and all powered by Quantum Turbo battery packs (plus one SB900 on camera dialed down for fill). Took FOURTEEN HUNDRED photos with this setup today and it was dead on all day long. The flashes fired every time (as far as I can tell), and the batteries lasted all day too. I shutoff the SU4 mode of course so didn't have to worry about any other cameras setting my flashes off.
I'm also taking other photos without the remote flash setup; camera 2 has been using various fast primes, camera 3 usually the 14-24mm f/2.8 or 28-70mm f/2.8 with bounced SB on camera.
Here's a few from today (my job requires a really quick turnaround):
Tomorrow is the finals; and I'm still open to tips/suggestions. They are completely changing the setup and installing the ring tonight with a full lighting setup for TV. My plan for tomorrow is to go with all primes (well, maybe the addictive 70-200), maybe with a TOUCH of on camera flash for fill (I'm thinking like 1/64th).
I'll arrive 3 hours early in the morning to setup and start taking test shots.
Nikon | Private Photojournalist
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Thanks! Looks like my shots hit a few of the papers / military magazines / etc.
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/2010/10/08/1298660/the-armys-top-fighters-more-than.html
This week we are hosting the International Sniper Competition, a lot of the stuff is at night - should be interesting (no flash of course).
OP - I do hope that my experiments helped out; go with the SB's, clamp them out of the way, etc.
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