Should I join the WPJA?

studio1972

Would really appreciate some feedback on this. Firstly, would I get in, not sure if I have too many shots of details and portraits?

Secondly, should I want to join, is it worth the $300 per year? I'm based in the UK of course, and there are much fewer members over here. I'm already in the SWPP, but they only seem to be interested in posed shots when it comes to assessments etc. and I much prefer taking candid shots.

Thanks,

Sarah

JVPhotography

I'm not personally a member of WPJA, for no reason other than: we aren't photojournalistic photographers. Everyone I have talked to who is a member loves it and says some of their best brides are referred through WPJA. The acceptance rate is low because they have pretty strict requirements but if you can join, I definitely would.

indiegirl

Heck yes!

mmmatt

I have thought of trying to become a member there but it would mean pulling most of the posed stuff off my site and I'm not really prepared to do that at this point. That is a great group to be associated with though... LOTs off talent on them thar pages! please let us know what you decide and if you get accepted.

matt

marikris

Ditto on the strict requirements. If you qualify, then I second the "heck yes." And yes, please, do let us know how it turns out if you decide to go for it!

FedererPhoto

It'd be interesting to see. Do report back if you try.

studio1972

Thanks for all the advice guys & girls. Well, I'm definitely going to have a try. I have a load of weddings stacked up for editing so I'm going to make a few changes to what I put on my site to make it 'compliant'. It will probably take a week or two until I'm ready, but then I'll have a go and let you know how I do.

The requirements are quite strict, but you can still have posed shots and details etc, as long as there aren't too many of them. No more Sepia though

Matthew Saville

Joining the WPJA simply cannot be a half-hearted effort. They want ONLY true photojournalists, which is why they impose such strict requirements.

If you have any qualms about meeting these requirements, then that probably means your style is NOT deeply rooted on photojournalism. And they want you to feel that way; they WANT people to be afraid to apply unless they know in their heart that photojournalism is truly what they do best.

We ALL have a bunch of great candid photos, but that doesn't make us cut out for WPJA. I know I'm not, even though I COULD probably consolidate my portfolio enough to fit in. But if I did so, it would be purely a business decision, not a higher calling felt deep within. I DO sometimes feel that urge to just REFUSE posed formals and go 100% photojournalist, but other times I just LIVE for the environmental (posed) portraits that are my trademark style. And currently, that is the higher calling in me.

=Matt=

studio1972

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. To be honest, I have no qualms at all about the requirements. Whether they have qualms about my photography is a different matter of course.

I had a count through my site and found that I was already at close to the ratio they are looking for (65-75%). It is also these shots that my clients are reacting to. My ratio would probably be higher if I was free from doing so many groups (I do try to minimise them, but some clients still want far too many for my taste), so this seems like a way to attract the sort of clients that want the sort of photography that I enjoy producing

To be honest, even if I don't get in, I'll probably try to keep working within those guidelines (there is a consistent logic to them which appeals to me) and try again at a later point, as I feel like I'm still on a very steep learning curve at the moment.

Still, I don't think I would cut out portraits, groups and detail shots completely, most clients are still going to want some of these. From looking through the WPJA members sites it doesn't seem that many of them are purist to that extent either.

Mishka

I became a member of the WPJA this year. I wanted to join for several reasons:

1. I thought it would be an indicator of quality to my brides
2. I wanted to participate in their contests
3. I hoped it would get me more bookings
4. I wanted a high-quality link for SEO purposes

So far, I have not booked one wedding through the website. I rarely get clicks to my site (I check my stats regularly)--this may be because there are quite a few photographers from my state. While it's nice to be able to put an "official" stamp of "I'm a wedding photojournalist," at the end of the day, I can't actually say it's gotten me any more bookings. Additionally, I found out after I applied to join that there are several sad and unfortunate things they have done in the past to previous members, all respected and well-known wedding photojournalists. It was disappointing to find that out.

So, is it worth it to join? You have to ask yourself what you're looking for. I will be revaluating my membership when it comes up next year.

If you're looking for a good, professional group to join that doesn't have the strict "photojournalist" guidelines for membership, I highly recommend the ISPWP: International Society of Professional Wedding Photographers. You'll be hard pressed to find a group of better photographers.

Matthew Saville

studio1972 wrote: »

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. To be honest, I have no qualms at all about the requirements. Whether they have qualms about my photography is a different matter of course.

I had a count through my site and found that I was already at close to the ratio they are looking for (65-75%). It is also these shots that my clients are reacting to. My ratio would probably be higher if I was free from doing so many groups (I do try to minimise them, but some clients still want far too many for my taste), so this seems like a way to attract the sort of clients that want the sort of photography that I enjoy producing

To be honest, even if I don't get in, I'll probably try to keep working within those guidelines (there is a consistent logic to them which appeals to me) and try again at a later point, as I feel like I'm still on a very steep learning curve at the moment.

Still, I don't think I would cut out portraits, groups and detail shots completely, most clients are still going to want some of these. From looking through the WPJA members sites it doesn't seem that many of them are purist to that extent either.

It sounds like you're a prime candidate for membership!

However Mishka's report of no new business is disappointing. I guess it just isn't the same as it was however many years ago when I first caught wind of the WPJA, there were probably a lot fewer members and each one of them seemed to do pretty well.

If you're having trouble with people asking for too many formals, just do what Joe Buissink does- make yourself the 2nd shooter! Pay another photographer to handle all the traditional, "required" shots, while you just follow your eye. You gotta pay the other photographer a little more than normal, but if you can swing it you'll be so happy you did...

=Matt=

FedererPhoto

Mishka,

I think that is very interesting to hear no bookings. I wonder if it has that 'halo' effect though -- you might not get truly dedicated-from-them bookings, but it might increase your cachet enough that you end up booking 5% more of your visiting clients or something. It's too bad all we have is anecdotes, so we can't really ever be sure of smaller margins of difference like that.

Do you find the WPJA community is good and helpful? I can see that being a valuable resource in-and-of itself.

lizzard_nyc

Someday I WILL become a member.

First to book my first second shooter gig .

mmmatt

Mishka wrote: »

Additionally, I found out after I applied to join that there are several sad and unfortunate things they have done in the past to previous members, all respected and well-known wedding photojournalists. It was disappointing to find that out.

?

Mishka

FedererPhoto wrote: »

Mishka,

I think that is very interesting to hear no bookings. I wonder if it has that 'halo' effect though -- you might not get truly dedicated-from-them bookings, but it might increase your cachet enough that you end up booking 5% more of your visiting clients or something.

Do you find the WPJA community is good and helpful? I can see that being a valuable resource in-and-of itself.

True, it's difficult to know if my membership encourages brides to book with me, but honestly, I would say no, it doesn't have much effect. Most of my bookings come from word of mouth referrals that have nothing to do with WPJA membership.

As for the community, what community? I haven't had any interaction with anyone listed on the site other than those who are also members of a different online forum. I'm not aware of any forums or group resources specifically for WPJA members. There is not any sort of voluntary outpouring of camaraderie when you join. So no, that's not a resource in anyway for me.

I don't want to sound negative! But at the same time, I want to be savvy about my business and invest in the right resources. If you get bookings and it helps grow your business, great! But, depending on how many folks are already listed in your state, you may not find much traffic coming your way.

Mishka

mmmatt wrote: »

?

Since I can't speak from first-hand personal experience, I suggest googling terms like "boycott wpja" and check out discussions like this one. As I said, I was unaware of such actions before I applied....if I had discovered this before hand, I would not have applied. Sure, at some point it could be a thing of "he said, she said," but the evidence speaks for itself. It's a pity that a drive to stifle competition overcame a desire to create a healthy association for the industry.

shutterbug616

Mishka wrote: »

I became a member of the WPJA this year. I wanted to join for several reasons:

1. I thought it would be an indicator of quality to my brides
2. I wanted to participate in their contests
3. I hoped it would get me more bookings
4. I wanted a high-quality link for SEO purposes

So far, I have not booked one wedding through the website. I rarely get clicks to my site (I check my stats regularly)--this may be because there are quite a few photographers from my state. While it's nice to be able to put an "official" stamp of "I'm a wedding photojournalist," at the end of the day, I can't actually say it's gotten me any more bookings. Additionally, I found out after I applied to join that there are several sad and unfortunate things they have done in the past to previous members, all respected and well-known wedding photojournalists. It was disappointing to find that out.

So, is it worth it to join? You have to ask yourself what you're looking for. I will be revaluating my membership when it comes up next year.

If you're looking for a good, professional group to join that doesn't have the strict "photojournalist" guidelines for membership, I highly recommend the ISPWP: International Society of Professional Wedding Photographers. You'll be hard pressed to find a group of better photographers.

The ISPWP requires you have at least 50 weddings under your belt before even thinking of applying. Hmmm maybe if I was doing this full time.. but i'm not. Thats a bit much.. but thats just my own opinon.

Mishka

shutterbug616 wrote: »

The ISPWP requires you have at least 50 weddings under your belt before even thinking of applying. Hmmm maybe if I was doing this full time.. but i'm not. Thats a bit much.. but thats just my own opinon.

A bit much for what? What number would you propose to differentiate yourself as an experienced, professional photographer whose level of skill is way beyond a "mom with camera?"

I think their minimum requirement insures that all members have a good amount of experience under their belt. Sure, you could shoot 50 weddings and do a poor job on all of them, but more than likely it will mean you've been in a lot of different situations and are used to the stresses that come with the job. Brides can be confident in knowing "you know what you're doing," and you're going to produce a high-quality product.

As for only doing photography part-time--you could certainly still get there--maybe not as quickly as if you were doing it full-time, but it's still attainable. I started off part-time myself, working another full-time job until last year, and I passed the 50 mark earlier this year. So, it's doable.

Matthew Saville

Mishka wrote: »

A bit much for what? What number would you propose to differentiate yourself as an experienced, professional photographer whose level of skill is way beyond a "mom with camera?"

I think their minimum requirement insures that all members have a good amount of experience under their belt. Sure, you could shoot 50 weddings and do a poor job on all of them, but more than likely it will mean you've been in a lot of different situations and are used to the stresses that come with the job. Brides can be confident in knowing "you know what you're doing," and you're going to produce a high-quality product.

As for only doing photography part-time--you could certainly still get there--maybe not as quickly as if you were doing it full-time, but it's still attainable. I started off part-time myself, working another full-time job until last year, and I passed the 50 mark earlier this year. So, it's doable.

Sounds like I should apply to THIS instead! Totally agree; this industry needs MORE bars of entry, not less.

(Sorry for throwing everyone else under the bus...)

=Matt=

Ed911

Why apply for anything? Being a better businessman/woman trumps joining clubs, unless you want to one-up someone in a confrontation.

Let your work to the talking. Figure out how to market yourself...if you need some additional letters on your card...join the PPA...for the most part, clients aren't interested in your memberships...and at least the PPA offers liability insurance.

My experience with the PPA wasn't that stellar...the only email that I got from them were for seminar offers...$$$ for them.

I did look at Jasmine Star's website...her weddings start at, if I remember correctly, $7500...and not one mention of the alphabet soup clubs...no PPA...no journalist club affiliation, no club requiring 50 weddings. Just unabashed self promotion and some really good photos...not to mention a first class website...and it only took four years...acording to her.

So, in my opinion...don't worry about belonging...just shoot...be good...work on you business skills and self-promotion...and you'll do just fine, and if you're any good at all...you'll do better than just fine.

The above is submitted with the best of intentions...food for thought. Ask yourself, who owns these organizations...why do you need to belong. Why do they want you to belong? What's their stake in you joining...and what do they have to offer.

One of our more prolific wedding photography companies (500 plus) promotes the homes they own...mansion...number of weddings...and therefore client satisfaction and on and on...and I've read his website top to bottom...and never did he one time mention and I am a member of....yada, yada...etc.

That's my fifty cents.

Mishka

Ed911 wrote: »

One of our more prolific wedding photography companies (500 plus) promotes the homes they own...mansion...number of weddings...and therefore client satisfaction and on and on...and I've read his website top to bottom...and never did he one time mention and I am a member of....yada, yada...etc.

That's my fifty cents.

I totally don't understand that last paragraph. What are you talking about?

As for your other thoughts--I agree--being a great photographer and good business person will far outweigh any organizations you're a member of. But since this is an industry with no licensing requirements (which is fine with me), setting yourself apart from "moms with cameras" by joining professional listings/groups can be one way to signal your commitment to quality work. Plus, it helps with SEO.

Ed911

Mishka wrote: »

I totally don't understand that last paragraph. What are you talking about?

As for your other thoughts--I agree--being a great photographer and good business person will far outweigh any organizations you're a member of. But since this is an industry with no licensing requirements (which is fine with me), setting yourself apart from "moms with cameras" by joining professional listings/groups can be one way to signal your commitment to quality work. Plus, it helps with SEO.

SEO...forgot about that...cool.

I was speaking about one of the local photographers in my area who has a company that shoots weddings...he owns and continues to to buy property that he features as wedding hot spots...he owns a local mansion that he bought a couple of years ago...and some property at the beach...and a very large historical home downtown on the water. Part of his business plan is pushing his ammenties...agressively. And the point that I'm trying to make is that he too never mentions PPA or any other organization affiliation relative to his photography business advertising/website. He has captured and uses the "town name photography.com."

500 plus is the number of weddings that he has shot in the last few years...5 or so...

I thinking that if you have your town name+photography available, just buy the web domain and then link it to your photography website. This to me is as valuable as SEOing your site by adding organizational links...like PPA and the rest...probably more so when someone is looking for a photographer in your area.

Hope this clears things up. Not trying to flame anyone...just throwing out some thoughts for continued commentary by the forum. What do the other forum members think about joining Photography related organizaitons...yes, no, maybe?