I gave someone advice tonight

michswissmichswiss Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 2,235 Major grins
edited September 20, 2010 in Street and Documentary
I passed a couple this evening that were having trouble getting a shot of a set of lights reflecting in the door of a boutique hotel in my neighbourhood. They'd been using the onboard flash and kept shooting away and I could feel their frustration as they chimped and tried again.

I'd noticed the shot I thought they were after as I walked past and for some reason decided to turn back. I demonstrated hand-holding techniques, how to brace on the wall and suggested increased ISO and slower shutter speeds. At the end I'd captured two shots that they chimped and seemed to like (It was Canon gear so I as at a slight loss to the control details.) But they seemed genuinely happy with the new knowledge.

Moral? Turn the flash off. Learn how to brace and balance in low light. Seek unusual light sources. Give and receive advice.

Comments

  • lizzard_nyclizzard_nyc Registered Users Posts: 4,056 Major grins
    edited September 20, 2010
    :) wonderful story. You probably made their day and good "moral of the story".

    I have some shots to post tonight--awful awful night shots for the new exercise, I hope you will chime in with what I did wrong so I can get it right.
    Liz A.
    _________
  • M38A1M38A1 Registered Users Posts: 1,317 Major grins
    edited September 20, 2010
    Good on you...

    I wrestle with helping others as I don't want to give any impressions I'm "that guy". Usually I'll mention something to break the ice like "that's a cools shot", ask them how their setting it up, what the results are so far. If less than stellar from their side, then I'll offer some input. If the first part goes well, the second part is much easier for me.

    Did you return their camera back to where they started? :D Their next birthday party shots might be less than stellar now. lol......
  • michswissmichswiss Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 2,235 Major grins
    edited September 20, 2010
    M38A1 wrote: »
    Did you return their camera back to where they started? :D Their next birthday party shots might be less than stellar now. lol......

    Hah! No I didn't, but I'd only adjusted it from ISO400 to ISO800 and put it in Aperture mode. Come to think about it, they might have problems with F11 (where it was set when I took the camera) at their next party if they hadn't read the manual. eek7.gif

    But, night shooting is physical. You need to think about everything. Be ready to bend your knee's and brace your elbows.
  • M38A1M38A1 Registered Users Posts: 1,317 Major grins
    edited September 20, 2010
    OK, while we're on the subject of advice, here's the total PJ noob question or two of the day....

    Question #1
    Why the self-imposed denial of a tripod for night shots? I can see it takes the spontaneity out of the shot and allows for a more 'personal' contact vs 'clinical' approach. Is that why?

    And question #2
    Is there criteria on color vs B&W? Or, is it what format offers the best representation to tell the story? (I see a lot of B&W compared to color)

    Hey, I'm sure there are others out there asking much the same questions, so thanks in advance!
  • michswissmichswiss Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 2,235 Major grins
    edited September 20, 2010
    Who's going to hang around to have their picture taken while you set up the tripod? Street, candid or documentary photography isn't about the subject waiting or preparing for you. It's about you waiting and preparing for them. Anticipation is key. Gotta be mobile. Work in areas you understand. Knowing light sources and setting exposure and focus in advance so that there's only a minor adjustment needed when something happens.

    At this stage I sorta know whether a shot will be B&W or colour in advance. One of the fun things about night shooting is playing with shadows and shadows are best played with in B&W. Colour at night can be jarring and you need to be aware of it. It can create a completely different vibe than a B&W version of the same scene would create. Play with it, think about it. Spend a day or two with it.
  • RichardRichard Administrators, Vanilla Admin Posts: 19,961 moderator
    edited September 20, 2010
    M38A1 wrote: »
    OK, while we're on the subject of advice, here's the total PJ noob question or two of the day....

    Question #1
    Why the self-imposed denial of a tripod for night shots? I can see it takes the spontaneity out of the shot and allows for a more 'personal' contact vs 'clinical' approach. Is that why?

    And question #2
    Is there criteria on color vs B&W? Or, is it what format offers the best representation to tell the story? (I see a lot of B&W compared to color)

    Hey, I'm sure there are others out there asking much the same questions, so thanks in advance!

    It's awfully hard to be inconspicuous with a tripod. mwink.gif As for color/B&W, there's no rule. We had a very long discussion about this some time ago--look for a link in the sticky at the top of this forum--and it really comes down to a matter of taste in some cases. In other cases, there are very good reasons to prefer one over the other. Really, it depends on the image and the artistic intent.
    My Pics
  • M38A1M38A1 Registered Users Posts: 1,317 Major grins
    edited September 20, 2010
    So when you do the B&W shots, I see two approaches.... First is set the camera to B&W and shoot, the other taking a color image and I assume desaturate it I'm sure there's a lot of other ways in post to get a B&W image, right? (assuming digital as the platform here...)
  • bdcolenbdcolen Registered Users Posts: 3,804 Major grins
    edited September 20, 2010
    M38A1 wrote: »
    So when you do the B&W shots, I see two approaches.... First is set the camera to B&W and shoot, the other taking a color image and I assume desaturate it I'm sure there's a lot of other ways in post to get a B&W image, right? (assuming digital as the platform here...)

    OMG! rolleyes1.gif Do NOT desaturate to get a black and white - what you will get is a desaturated color shot.
    bd@bdcolenphoto.com
    "He not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan

    "The more ambiguous the photograph is, the better it is..." Leonard Freed
  • M38A1M38A1 Registered Users Posts: 1,317 Major grins
    edited September 20, 2010
    bdcolen wrote: »
    OMG! rolleyes1.gif Do NOT desaturate to get a black and white - what you will get is a desaturated color shot.

    OK, so what is the preferred method to produce a B&W image? I'm not trying to be snarky here, I really WANT to know how to improve my took-kit of knowledge.
  • michswissmichswiss Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 2,235 Major grins
    edited September 20, 2010
    M38A1 wrote: »
    So when you do the B&W shots, I see two approaches.... First is set the camera to B&W and shoot, the other taking a color image and I assume desaturate it I'm sure there's a lot of other ways in post to get a B&W image, right? (assuming digital as the platform here...)

    If you're not already, I'm going to strongly suggest that you begin to shoot in Raw. it's going to give you the most latitude to do a B&W conversion or other low-light adjustments if you decide to stay in colour. Otherwise, there's an enormous challenge in front of you if you don't know your kit inside and out.
  • M38A1M38A1 Registered Users Posts: 1,317 Major grins
    edited September 20, 2010
    michswiss wrote: »
    If you're not already, I'm going to strongly suggest that you begin to shoot in Raw. it's going to give you the most latitude to do a B&W conversion or other low-light adjustments if you decide to stay in colour. Otherwise, there's an enormous challenge in front of you if you don't know your kit inside and out.

    I've been shooting RAW for a year now on my D90 and using LR for post.
  • RichardRichard Administrators, Vanilla Admin Posts: 19,961 moderator
    edited September 20, 2010
    M38A1 wrote: »
    OK, so what is the preferred method to produce a B&W image? I'm not trying to be snarky here, I really WANT to know how to improve my took-kit of knowledge.

    That's a little like asking what's the preferred way to cook dinner. There are many different approaches--channel mixing, gradient maps, desaturation, presets in LR, third-party software programs, etc. A good place to start is the Tutorials section on the main Dgrin nav bar. You can also find many threads on Dgrin (and elsewhere) by using the Search function. But the least favorite way is to let your camera do it--you have no control over the results.
    My Pics
  • M38A1M38A1 Registered Users Posts: 1,317 Major grins
    edited September 20, 2010
    ......stumbles off to read more now.

    Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I'll head there next.
  • SillKickingSillKicking Registered Users Posts: 65 Big grins
    edited September 20, 2010
    M38A1 wrote: »
    So when you do the B&W shots, I see two approaches.... First is set the camera to B&W and shoot, the other taking a color image and I assume desaturate it I'm sure there's a lot of other ways in post to get a B&W image, right? (assuming digital as the platform here...)

    There is a third.. shoot B&W film.. :D

    Seriously, when I shoot digital at night I tend to be trying to capture colour and I know this may be sacrilege to some.. but digital wins hands down when it come to colour.

    When it comes to B&W its film all the way.. and if its shot using an old rangefinder.. so much the better.. (at which point its more about the pleasure inherent in the process)
    Marc

    I always appreciate comments and constructive criticism..:D

    http://marcvlitos.smugmug.com/
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