Filters?

m448m448 Registered Users Posts: 9 Beginner grinner
edited September 27, 2010 in Cameras
Yes, I've read up a bit on filters but mostly when I was first making the transition to a dslr. Anyone care to share some info as well as advice. I remember having a few in my shopping cart as I placed my camera order then reading something about how cheap filters mess up otherwise nice shots. So hit with me anything but rotten tomatoes.

I mostly shoot indoors, natural light but also do some outdoors stuff. I have a very beginner collection of lenses and definitely not L glass. A 50mm 1.8, the kit lens and a 55-250mm (canon).

The disclaimer. I'm not a pro, I shoot my kids and for now some friends that I refuse to charge so I can do things at my very ADD pace.

Comments

  • IcebearIcebear Registered Users Posts: 4,015 Major grins
    edited September 22, 2010
    It may seem dumb to spend $50 for a clear piece of glass to put on the front of a $150 lens (50mm 1.8) but it's a habit you should get into. Look at it this way . . . the filter is the first piece of glass the photons that will eventually end up impacting your sensor encounter. If they get effed up there, no piece of "L glass" they go through in between will fix them.

    You will probably end up spending more money on lenses than bodies, so protect your investment with good quality "protection" filters (I like B&W for the quality).

    Polarizers, GND, ND, etc are optional add-ons to your bag-o-tricks for later.
    John :
    Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
    D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
  • craig_dcraig_d Registered Users Posts: 911 Major grins
    edited September 22, 2010
    The problem with cheap filters is that they are prone to reflections (which can create ghost images in your pictures when light bounces forward from the sensor or some surface inside the lens, hits the filter, and bounces back to the sensor) and can sometimes introduce veiling flare or distortion.

    If you want and can afford the best, buy B+W F-Pro multi-coated filters. If you want something just about as good at a lower price, buy Hoya HMC multi-coated filters. Do not shop at Ritz or Wolf Camera stores for filters, because in my experience everything they carry is cheap crud.

    The next question is what filters you need. For expensive lenses, I usually buy a clear or UV filter to protect the front element. Sometimes this is also necessary for proper weather-sealing. However, for inexpensive lenses like the ones you mention, I don't bother. It isn't worth the price of a good filter to me to protect a lens that cost me less than $300 to begin with.

    The protection issue aside, the other filters you are most likely to find interesting are the circular polarizer, the neutral density filter, and perhaps the graduated neutral density filter.

    The circular polarizer filters polarized light, which has the effect of reducing glare, reducing reflections off water, rock, and similar surfaces, and increasing color saturation. Its effect changes as you rotate the filter. Learning to use a circular polarizer effectively can take a while, but is worth the effort. The downside of a polarizer is that it reduces incoming light by about two stops, requiring correspondingly longer exposures, so it's not something to use all the time. You will also see that some polarizers are described as "Kaesemann" polarizers. All this means is that the filter is designed to stand up under extremely harsh environmental conditions. Unless you plan to use the filter in the middle of an Antarctic blizzard, you probably don't need a Kaesemann filter.

    The neutral density filter simply reduces incoming light without changing its color balance. The only reason to use one is when you want to use a longer exposure or a wider aperture than would otherwise be possible. When you see pictures of waterfalls where the water is severely blurred until it becomes a hazy, featureless flow, this effect is usually achieved with a neutral density filter and a long exposure. Neutral density filters come in various strengths; the weakest only reduce light by one stop; two- or three-stop NDs are probably the most common ones; but if you hunt you can find NDs as high as nine stops, which can be quite useful for the blurred-water effect.

    The graduated neutral density filter is clear on one side, and a neutral-density filter (usually from one to three stops) on the other side, with a transition area in the middle. This is useful, for example, for bringing down the brightness of the sky without affecting the land. Some people these days don't bother with GND filters, and instead take multiple exposures of a scene at different shutter speeds, then merge the images to get results similar to, but more flexible than, what a GND filter can do. This merging can be as simple as using layer masks to fit parts of different images together, or using HDR (High Dynamic Range) tone mapping software.

    You do not need color-conversion filters (which are essential to color photography with film cameras), because digital cameras takes care of that by adjusting white balance.

    You will see that some filters are described as "slim" or "wide-angle" filters. This just means that the metal frame of the filter is narrower than usual to avoid causing vignetting with wide-angle lenses. With your 550D, you shouldn't need to worry about this unless you have a lens that goes wider than 18mm.

    I can't think offhand of any other filters you would be likely to need, but I'm sure someone else will point out something I've forgotten.
    http://craigd.smugmug.com

    Got bored with digital and went back to film.
  • GadgetRickGadgetRick Registered Users Posts: 787 Major grins
    edited September 22, 2010
    I don't buy the filter hype. I don't hear of people damaging their glass because they don't use filters. I have, however, heard of a few people (some around here actually) who have had their lens damaged because of a filter. Also, no matter how good the filter is, it does suck photons and you're not getting as much light to the sensor as you do sans filter.

    So I don't use filters any longer...
  • Matthew SavilleMatthew Saville Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 3,352 Major grins
    edited September 22, 2010
    GadgetRick wrote: »
    I don't buy the filter hype. I don't hear of people damaging their glass because they don't use filters. I have, however, heard of a few people (some around here actually) who have had their lens damaged because of a filter. Also, no matter how good the filter is, it does suck photons and you're not getting as much light to the sensor as you do sans filter.

    So I don't use filters any longer...
    In numerous instances, a filter can actually *improve* the quality and detail of the image you record, given the atmospheric conditions.

    I've gone back and forth from using filters and no filters for years, done tons of tests to see if a filter could possibly harm my image quality OR my autofocus performance, but I almost see no difference and usually when I do see a difference it is in FAVOR of the filter.

    That, plus I hate lens caps as an event photographer. They're just a terrible idea. So usually, I just leave my filters on 100% of the time, keep them clean, and I do just fine.

    I've dropped lenses before and had a filter crack once, I would have definitely damaged the front of the lens, and/or the front element, if it weren't for the filter...

    But to each their own. In my honest opinion, the decision is highly personal and based on your shooting needs. If you're going rock climbing, put on a filter. Otherwise, maybe you don't need one. Especially if you can make it a habit to always leave your lens hood on; a lens hood will protect your front element WAY better than any filter will...

    =Matt=
    My first thought is always of light.” – Galen Rowell
    My SmugMug PortfolioMy Astro-Landscape Photo BlogDgrin Weddings Forum
  • racerracer Registered Users Posts: 333 Major grins
    edited September 22, 2010
    there is tons of advice in this thread

    http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=178002
    Todd - My Photos
  • PhotoskipperPhotoskipper Registered Users Posts: 453 Major grins
    edited September 22, 2010
    I did not invest too much on the filters when I changed to digital. the only filters I have is the UV mainly for protection as I do a lot outdoor and nature shootings, polarizer and ND was added for my 77mm collections. Most of the time, i don't use filter for wide-angles, but just ultra-thin UV filter for protection if necessary.

    one more to share is to standardize the diameter of filter collection. I try to buy lens with 77mm only (17-40, 24-105, 70-200, 100-400) so that I can only bring one set of filter for the trip.
    Photoskipper
    flickr.com/photos/photoskipper/
  • NeilLNeilL Registered Users Posts: 4,201 Major grins
    edited September 22, 2010
    In numerous instances, a filter can actually *improve* the quality and detail of the image you record, given the atmospheric conditions.

    I've gone back and forth from using filters and no filters for years, done tons of tests to see if a filter could possibly harm my image quality OR my autofocus performance, but I almost see no difference and usually when I do see a difference it is in FAVOR of the filter.

    That, plus I hate lens caps as an event photographer. They're just a terrible idea. So usually, I just leave my filters on 100% of the time, keep them clean, and I do just fine.

    I've dropped lenses before and had a filter crack once, I would have definitely damaged the front of the lens, and/or the front element, if it weren't for the filter...

    But to each their own. In my honest opinion, the decision is highly personal and based on your shooting needs. If you're going rock climbing, put on a filter. Otherwise, maybe you don't need one. Especially if you can make it a habit to always leave your lens hood on; a lens hood will protect your front element WAY better than any filter will...

    =Matt=

    Lens caps prevent the sensor burning if somehow your lens gets pointed at the sun.

    Neil
    "Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

    http://www.behance.net/brosepix
  • borrowlenses.comborrowlenses.com Registered Users Posts: 441 Major grins
    edited September 22, 2010
    We put filters on every lens we send out, for a reason :)

    MaVbs.jpg
    http://www.BorrowLenses.com
    Your professional online camera gear rental store

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  • m448m448 Registered Users Posts: 9 Beginner grinner
    edited September 23, 2010
    Hmmmm, lots to think about. Although my lenses aren't pricey they are relatively speaking valuable to me and my hobby. I'm pretty careful with them and since I don't see myself taking up any sports that would challenge my life insurance policy at this point I think I'm good. The lens hoods however have me intrigued and I'm definitely going to check into those.

    I really appreciate the input. I can't do too much googling without changing my mind every 15 seconds or so and ending up in search engine rabbit holes of death. Already I'm having a crisis of conscience over the t1i vs. t2i.
  • Matthew SavilleMatthew Saville Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 3,352 Major grins
    edited September 23, 2010
    m448 wrote: »
    Hmmmm, lots to think about. Although my lenses aren't pricey they are relatively speaking valuable to me and my hobby. I'm pretty careful with them and since I don't see myself taking up any sports that would challenge my life insurance policy at this point I think I'm good. The lens hoods however have me intrigued and I'm definitely going to check into those.

    I really appreciate the input. I can't do too much googling without changing my mind every 15 seconds or so and ending up in search engine rabbit holes of death. Already I'm having a crisis of conscience over the t1i vs. t2i.
    Sounds like you need to get off the computer for a while. Buy the nicer camera so that you can feel good about it right away, then get off the computer for ONE WEEK and go shoot. Just go take pictures, and don't worry about filters, hoods, etc. Just have fun. :-)

    =Matt=
    My first thought is always of light.” – Galen Rowell
    My SmugMug PortfolioMy Astro-Landscape Photo BlogDgrin Weddings Forum
  • m448m448 Registered Users Posts: 9 Beginner grinner
    edited September 23, 2010
    Sounds like you need to get off the computer for a while. Buy the nicer camera so that you can feel good about it right away, then get off the computer for ONE WEEK and go shoot. Just go take pictures, and don't worry about filters, hoods, etc. Just have fun. :-)

    =Matt=

    Thanks. I'm definitely going to let this decision simmer just a bit then go to town shooting but I have one question regarding those bodies that I might post as a separate thread.

    Loved your site by the way. thumb.gif
  • roakeyroakey Registered Users Posts: 81 Big grins
    edited September 23, 2010
    Sounds like you need to get off the computer for a while. Buy the nicer camera so that you can feel good about it right away, then get off the computer for ONE WEEK and go shoot. Just go take pictures, and don't worry about filters, hoods, etc. Just have fun. :-)

    =Matt=
    Sounds like a variation of my first rule of photography:

    1) Take a picture.

    :)

    Roak
    [email]roakeyatunderctekdotcom[/email]
    <== Mighty Murphy, the wonder Bouv!
  • InsuredDisasterInsuredDisaster Registered Users Posts: 1,132 Major grins
    edited September 23, 2010
    I use filters in place of lens caps. Since I can't imagine why I'd be trying to take a picture of the sun with a lens cap still on, I'm not sure I see the point mentioned earlier.

    I have had filters get smashed on the lenses, and I've had lenses (nothing too expensive) get terribly scratched as well in the past. Filters seem like good protection.

    Finally, I end up chucking the filters every few months and replacing them. Sometimes they get exposed to things like bug spray or other nasties that does a wondrous job to the filters. can't imagine what it would do to my lenses. I don't normally spend huge amounts of money on filters. But I do take them off at times, especially night, if it appears they are causing problems.
  • AiredrifterAiredrifter Registered Users Posts: 253 Major grins
    edited September 23, 2010
    I tend to shoot in harsh conditions. I buy cheap filters and replace them as needed. I've had scratches and thread damage.

    1015065546_NTAzf-XL.jpg
  • brancaleonebrancaleone Registered Users Posts: 55 Big grins
    edited September 23, 2010
    Filters?
    Istarted shooting pictures wen I was wearing (still) short pants, a half century+ after I still shooting pictures and the only thing I can tell you that except for the Uv and polarizer I never invested much money in filters.
    Today cameras are amazing, what you do with today's cameras I wish I could have done "then." Try to learn what your camera can do and use the camera settings as much as you can. You do not need anything else.

    Save the filters money for good lenses. rolleyes1.gif

    Good luck.
  • T. BombadilT. Bombadil Registered Users Posts: 286 Major grins
    edited September 24, 2010
    m448 wrote: »
    Yes, I've read up a bit on filters but mostly when I was first making the transition to a dslr. Anyone care to share some info as well as advice. I remember having a few in my shopping cart as I placed my camera order then reading something about how cheap filters mess up otherwise nice shots. So hit with me anything but rotten tomatoes.

    Some good advice has been given in this thread. The thing I most agree with is the notion that filters for lens protection are a personal choice.

    My personal choice is not to use them.

    A filter protects your lens from trauma that is great enough to damage glass, but not great enough to break the filter (and drive it into the front element). An unprotected front element subjected to that level of abuse could be repaired/replaced without replacing the entire lens. The cost of doing so would be > the cost of a good filter, but not enough more to make the filter good insurance (other factors not withstanding - you might want a filter in a high wind and sand environment where you are sure damage is going to result and you will discard the filter afterwards).

    I find that being careful, and generally keeping the lens hood in place have allowed me to avoid any lens damage.
    Bruce

    Chooka chooka hoo la ley
    Looka looka koo la ley
  • rpcrowerpcrowe Registered Users Posts: 733 Major grins
    edited September 24, 2010
    Use a lens hood...
    I have taken a fall on a slippery slope in Aska which creamed my 40D camera however, using a lens hood there was no damage to my 70-200mm f/4L IS lens. I was not using a protective filter. The lens hood was destroyed but, the lens was in good shape. I replaced the hood with a Chinese knock-off for a couple of bucks.

    I am not advocating the use or or non-use of a protective filter. I am simply recommending that when-ever and where-ever you are shooting, use a lens hood both for protection from flare and for physical protection of the lens...
  • craig_dcraig_d Registered Users Posts: 911 Major grins
    edited September 24, 2010
    A filter protects your lens from trauma that is great enough to damage glass, but not great enough to break the filter (and drive it into the front element).

    There's more to it than that, though. Some lenses require a filter for complete weather-sealing. Also, there are some inconveniences other than impact damage that a filter can protect against. I remember one discussion about whether or not to use filters in which someone posted about a time he was out in the wilderness on a paid photo shoot when his lens got hit with a cloud of pollen from a branch that someone brushed against. He simply removed his protective filter and replaced it with another one. Without a filter, he would have had to pause the shoot and take several minutes to carefully clean the front element. You really don't want to waste a paying client's time for that sort of thing.
    http://craigd.smugmug.com

    Got bored with digital and went back to film.
  • NikonsandVstromsNikonsandVstroms Registered Users Posts: 990 Major grins
    edited September 24, 2010
    GadgetRick wrote: »
    I don't buy the filter hype. I don't hear of people damaging their glass because they don't use filters. I have, however, heard of a few people (some around here actually) who have had their lens damaged because of a filter. Also, no matter how good the filter is, it does suck photons and you're not getting as much light to the sensor as you do sans filter.

    So I don't use filters any longer...


    I have saved 3 lenses thanks to filters deal.gif

    Also beyond the simple UV I like using all sorts of square filters in my work, gradient ND's or colored etc.
  • JimKarczewskiJimKarczewski Registered Users Posts: 969 Major grins
    edited September 25, 2010
    Only filter permanently attached is to my 70-200/2.8IS and it's a B&W Haze/UV filter. Other than that, I've stopped buying filters because it's a pain when I have to use a Circular Polarizer on my 50/1.4 (58mm ring) and then need one on my 16-35/2.8 (82mm.)

    I still use them, it's a necessity for landscapes. However, I've gone to the Cokin Z system. Buy a 4"x6" filter and use it with all my lenses and all I need is an adapter ring. In fact, I just bought a 105mm B+W KSM Circular Polarizer that will fit all of my lenses for $260. Try doing that individually and it would had run me $600-700. All I needed was the right part to mount it to the front of my Z system.

    Just a thought, if you get really serious about your hobby. :)
  • Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited September 25, 2010
    I am one of the others..........I am one that has had a lens destroyed due to a filter on the lens.......the item that hit the filter was iron and after
    measuring it found that it was only long enuff to hit the filter while the rubber lens hood was flexing from the downward
    force of the falling camera and lens. the blunt piece of iron smashed the filter and all the tiny pieces of glass flew backwards
    into the lens and scratched it beyond use.........

    I have never used a filter since........

    I do use the best lens hoods I can on all my lenses ( i make some of them my self using hard rubber video lens hoods and a filter ring).......
    as far as dust on the front element or even pollen, that can be removed in a matter of seconds...it is not like it needs to a meticulious
    cleaning job...most of the time, unless shooting at extremely small apertures, dust and other foreign objects will not show up on the image.......

    Lenses attached to my camera are carried with a lens hood attached and nothing else..........unless I need a filter to produce the photo wanted or needed,
    then it is a rectangular 4x6 inch filter that attached via holder system (cokin style) or I handhold the filter in front of the element, at which
    time the lens hood is removed and after the image is made it the hood is remounted to the lens..........

    I have not used a screw-in filter in over 20+ years
    and have not had one lens get damaged from all the use I put them thru.....I shoot in wind, rain, sleet, snow...........so my equipment is used hard......but I also
    have maintaince done on my equipment regularly........if it requires being disassembled then it goes to a service center for cleaning and lubeing....
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

  • craig_dcraig_d Registered Users Posts: 911 Major grins
    edited September 25, 2010
    If you look hard enough, I'm sure you can find examples of people who died in car accidents BECAUSE they were wearing seat belts or BECAUSE their cars had airbags. But more people are saved by seat belts and air bags than are killed by them, so the smart choice is to wear your seat belt and have air bags. This is what I think when I read about people whose lenses were damaged because of protective filters. Yes, in just the wrong circumstances, having a filter can be worse than not having one. But I think those cases are far in the minority.
    http://craigd.smugmug.com

    Got bored with digital and went back to film.
  • Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited September 26, 2010
    craig_d wrote: »
    If you look hard enough, I'm sure you can find examples of people who died in car accidents BECAUSE they were wearing seat belts or BECAUSE their cars had airbags. But more people are saved by seat belts and air bags than are killed by them, so the smart choice is to wear your seat belt and have air bags. This is what I think when I read about people whose lenses were damaged because of protective filters. Yes, in just the wrong circumstances, having a filter can be worse than not having one. But I think those cases are far in the minority.

    Will not even discuss the seat belt thing in an open forum......as I have known many a person that died while hanging upside down in a car and burned to death because the seat belt would not disengage.......I'lll pay my fine for not wearing one or I will go back to only riding a bike without helmet.........

    As to filters.......if I rent a lens from borrowlenses and it comes with a filter....it will stay on...but I will not waste my money to buy a filter to put over my lens.......filters do degrade the image.....even the over priced B-W and Heliopan...........special effects filters are the only filters I will use......You will never convince me that filter will actually protect my lens better than a good lens hood will.......
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

  • GadgetRickGadgetRick Registered Users Posts: 787 Major grins
    edited September 27, 2010
    craig_d wrote: »
    If you look hard enough, I'm sure you can find examples of people who died in car accidents BECAUSE they were wearing seat belts or BECAUSE their cars had airbags. But more people are saved by seat belts and air bags than are killed by them, so the smart choice is to wear your seat belt and have air bags. This is what I think when I read about people whose lenses were damaged because of protective filters. Yes, in just the wrong circumstances, having a filter can be worse than not having one. But I think those cases are far in the minority.

    Sorry, not really a good analogy there. Search around online, you'll also find MANY instances of filters damaging lenses because they get frozen onto the lens threads. Heck, they even make special tools to remove frozen filters!

    I still don't buy needing a filter to protect a lens. Not saying it can't protect it, just saying I don't think it is likely enough for me to worry about it.

    I understand certain filters for certain effects but I don't use them for protection.
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