5dmk2

Qarik

I went to a wedding tonight..another uncle bob brought his 5dmk2..I switched with him for 10 min. I hesitate to post this because it will sound very biased..but I really was not impressed. Let me preface this by saying I am sure the images are superb and I have seen a LOT of GOOD shots come from the camera from folks on this forum. These are just my impressions and I don't intend to offend.

But I will say it..it felt very light and plasticky. Also looking through the viewfinder..only 9 (or 11?) focus points that cover very little of the view (although you sure don't need as much since you can crop the hell out to the 21 MP). The mode dial didn't have any lock outs, the thumb wheel was not like the front finger wheel though I am sure that is just something you get used to either way. Finally the shutter noise (and this is going to sound wierd), sounded a bit "cheap"? Like my d40 used to sound or the rebels. haha.

I was actually quite surprised at how much I didn't like it in my hands. When he mentioned what he had I was excited to hold one in my hands. oh well

insanefred

Qarik wrote: »

I went to a wedding tonight..another uncle bob brought his 5dmk2..I switched with him for 10 min. I hesitate to post this because it will sound very biased..but I really was not impressed. Let me preface this by saying I am sure the images are superb and I have seen a LOT of GOOD shots come from the camera from folks on this forum. These are just my impressions and I don't intend to offend.

But I will say it..it felt very light and plasticky. Also looking through the viewfinder..only 9 (or 11?) focus points that cover very little of the view (although you sure don't need as much since you can crop the hell out to the 21 MP). The mode dial didn't have any lock outs, the thumb wheel was not like the front finger wheel though I am sure that is just something you get used to either way. Finally the shutter noise (and this is going to sound wierd), sounded a bit "cheap"? Like my d40 used to sound or the rebels. haha.

I was actually quite surprised at how much I didn't like it in my hands. When he mentioned what he had I was excited to hold one in my hands. oh well

Yep, same here.
Felt very light and plasticky, the dials were plastic so was much harder to use them. 21MP is a small boost in resolution too.

But I must say, Canon still is superior for SOOC jpeg skintones than Nikon.

MadisonPhotography

Not about the feel, it's about the images it produces

angevin1

Qarik wrote: »

I went to a wedding tonight..another uncle bob brought his 5dmk2..I switched with him for 10 min. I hesitate to post this because it will sound very biased..but I really was not impressed. Let me preface this by saying I am sure the images are superb and I have seen a LOT of GOOD shots come from the camera from folks on this forum. These are just my impressions and I don't intend to offend.

But I will say it..it felt very light and plasticky. Also looking through the viewfinder..only 9 (or 11?) focus points that cover very little of the view (although you sure don't need as much since you can crop the hell out to the 21 MP). The mode dial didn't have any lock outs, the thumb wheel was not like the front finger wheel though I am sure that is just something you get used to either way. Finally the shutter noise (and this is going to sound wierd), sounded a bit "cheap"? Like my d40 used to sound or the rebels. haha.

I was actually quite surprised at how much I didn't like it in my hands. When he mentioned what he had I was excited to hold one in my hands. oh well

yeah Daniel, I think the plasticy feel And sound was the greatest surprise when I got the 5Dmk2. The Wheel, down low and on the back that requires an extra initial pivot of the on/off switch to adjust Aperture was another surprise. Focus points, and several other things come to mind as well. Non-grayed-out menu lock-outs!

Then there are the things I like. Plastic is lighter x1. Live-view button x2. Mode dial x3. Simple Menu x4. Video x5. And how nice the photos look with my Nikon glass hanging on the front! In fact, reading back over these...sounds like my D90.

kdog

Crazy thread. You guys are just more used to Nikons. First time I picked up a Nikon, it felt clunky and ill-conceived. But I didn't start a thread about it because I know they're great cameras, just different than what I'm used to.

rwells

kdog wrote: »

Crazy thread. You guys are just more used to Nikons. First time I picked up a Nikon, it felt clunky and ill-conceived. But I didn't start a thread about it because I know they're great cameras, just different than what I'm used to.

Qarik, sounds like you just need to stick with Nikon, and let us suffer with our little Canon's


BTW, I was seriously considering switching to Nikon this past year due to my frustration with Canon's lack of QC on new products, but when I shot with a D700, the front control wheel was a deal breaker for me. I couldn't change anything without changing my whole grip on the camera, then having to "re-grip".

If you noticed, on the Canon (either 1Series or others w/grip) you can change aperture, shutter speed, ISO, EC, FEC, (and a host of other items) with your grip hand only, never taking the camera from your eye, nor changing your grip, either landscape or portrait orientation.

Each to their own! ~ But Nikons are also great cameras

Overfocused

angevin1 wrote: »

yeah Daniel, I think the plasticy feel And sound was the greatest surprise when I got the 5Dmk2. The Wheel, down low and on the back that requires an extra initial pivot of the on/off switch to adjust Aperture was another surprise. Focus points, and several other things come to mind as well. Non-grayed-out menu lock-outs!

Then there are the things I like. Plastic is lighter x1. Live-view button x2. Mode dial x3. Simple Menu x4. Video x5. And how nice the photos look with my Nikon glass hanging on the front! In fact, reading back over these...sounds like my D90.

The thing is literally a budget 1Ds MKIII in terms of body, AF points, sealing, and FPS. IQ is the exact same, if not a fraction of a percent better (in tests) I didn't care about AF points (there's actually 9... I think its 9... additional invisible assist points that can't be individually selected, but can be turned on in the settings to assist AF)

Speaking of the thumb wheel and dials... you can reprogram the purpose of the dials if you want to. Also that switch actually toggles the wheel on and off, no matter what it's set to, not just the aperture... if it gets too annoying you can change it to a wheel that can accidentally get turned off or on in a shoot... I've bumped it back on and shifted aperture on accident during a shoot before

angevin1

Overfocused wrote: »

The thing is literally a budget 1Ds MKIII in terms of body, AF points, sealing, and FPS. IQ is the exact same, if not a fraction of a percent better (in tests) I didn't care about AF points (there's actually 9... I think its 9... additional invisible assist points that can't be individually selected, but can be turned on in the settings)

Speaking of the thumb wheel and dials... you can reprogram the purpose of the dials if you want to. Also that switch actually toggles the wheel on and off, no matter what it's set to, not just the aperture.

Ahh....nice..I appreciated the help yesterday with the ISO...I see now that so many of the Canon caveats are in a little grayed out area in the booklet.

I am certain I'd be a lot better with the functionality of it if I used it for photos versus Video.

Qarik

kdog wrote: »

Crazy thread. You guys are just more used to Nikons. First time I picked up a Nikon, it felt clunky and ill-conceived. But I didn't start a thread about it because I know they're great cameras, just different than what I'm used to.

haha..I am sure that is the case. I was just amazed at how really different it was.

insanefred

Hey, I do like some of the ergonomics of Canons...
The grip is bigger and easier for me to hold, there is more room for my thumb, and I like that fact that there's more buttons on the grip side.
I COULD get a D3, which does in fact has the PERFECT ergonomics for me. I think Nikon snuck into my house and measured me hand while I was asleep.

I will admit that I am still scratching my head about the "Quality" button on the D### cameras.

But overall Nikon defiantly has better ergonomics for me. Especially when I need to wear gloves.

BTW, changing the ISO or WB is just as easy as Canons..
Change your DoF or function button to "access to top of my menu" and set the top item to ISO settings.

IMO, the Nikon "info" button is better than Canons top mode dial custom modes. Especially if I have not had my coffee. You can name them and is harder to accidentally change custom modes.

Brett1000

insanefred wrote: »

Hey, I do like some of the ergonomics of Canons...
The grip is bigger and easier for me to hold, there is more room for my thumb, and I like that fact that there's more buttons on the grip side.
.

I like most of the ergonomics of Canon

insanefred wrote: »

But I must say, Canon still is superior for SOOC jpeg skintones than Nikon.

right, on the Canon forums many (former) Nikon users say the same thing, even tweaking the RAW images in PS you cannot get a nice Canon image quality.
But this leads to the question ... why would anyone buy Nikon?

Overfocused

Brett1000 wrote: »

But this leads to the question ... why would anyone buy Nikon?

That's going to dump a fuel air bomb on the fire

divamum

Er.... potayto/potahto?!

angevin1

Brett1000 wrote: »

I like most of the ergonomics of Canon




right, on the Canon forums many (former) Nikon users say the same thing, even tweaking the RAW images in PS you cannot get a nice Canon image quality.
But this leads to the question ... why would anyone buy Nikon?

Gess, I've never heard anybody switching because they cannot get good skin tones.

The Fuji line is known for producing even better skin tones, but I didn't jump on that wagon.

insanefred

Actually, for skin tones, I find it really depends on the raw converter you use.
SOOC Nikon cannot match Canon (I've tried everything). View NX and Capture NX 1/2 take a lot of tweaking, even then, not comparable.
with my little experience with LR and ACR you can get closer, but still far off.
Capture one 5, I am able to get even better than Canons easily.
The Fujifilm skin tones work well, probably (eww, my cat just farted on my lap) due to it's awesome DR.

Matthew Saville

insanefred wrote: »

Actually, for skin tones, I find it really depends on the raw converter you use.
SOOC Nikon cannot match Canon (I've tried everything). View NX and Capture NX 1/2 take a lot of tweaking, even then, not comparable.
with my little experience with LR and ACR you can get closer, but still far off.
Capture one 5, I am able to get even better than Canons easily.
The Fujifilm skin tones work well, probably (eww, my cat just farted on my lap) due to it's awesome DR.

I am quite insulted! :-P

I've got PLENTY of SOOC Nikon images that look just as good or better than any Canon image. It just takes a knowledge and mastery of Nikon white balance, including the fine tuning, and the picture controls, including the fine tuning. The only thing I will give Canon is that it is far EASIER to achieve pleasant skin tones, and only with certain sensors but not others. Canon's auto white balance usually does a better job than Nikon's auto white balance. But, show me any particular Canon image with what you consider to be pleasing skin tones, and I can replicate / beat those tones with any Nikon. :-)

=Matt=

John Mueller

:lurk

Moogle Pepper

I played with my sister in law's sister's husband's D300 and it was weird.
:deadhorse

Carry on...

:lurk

Matthew Saville

Moogle Pepper wrote: »

I played with my sister in law's sister's husband's D300 and it was weird.
:deadhorse

Carry on...

:lurk

I know, I know. I will say however that I like this forum because at least we can have these crazy discussions without slinging personal insults, like some forums which shall remain nameless.

I hope I don't personally offend anyone's pride in their own brand. Really, if any one brand didn't make AMAZING cameras and lenses, they'd have been driven out of this industry long ago. That's the one inarguable fact that speaks for itself...

=Matt=

Overfocused

matthew saville wrote: »

really, if any one brand didn't make amazing cameras and lenses, they'd have been driven out of this industry long ago. That's the one inarguable fact that speaks for itself...
=matt=

Holgaholgaholga!!!

Moogle Pepper

Overfocused wrote: »

Holgaholgaholga!!!

I am actually going to pick up a holga! I want to use it for some parts on my next wedding!

ziggy53

Moogle Pepper wrote: »

I am actually going to pick up a holga! I want to use it for some parts on my next wedding!

You can also use a "Holga" action in Photoshop to simulate some of the distortion, extreme vignetting and light leaks of the real thing, but give you enough variability so that it doesn't get too boring.

(Some of the Holga shooters use several cameras and grade them according to the above properties, using the multiple different physical cameras to get them the particular Holga "look" for the particular situation. Some Holga shooters will even physically alter their camera to enhance a particular effect.)

Matthew Saville

Overfocused wrote: »

Holgaholgaholga!!!

Oh boy. You went there. Haha. I know Holga's are popular these days, but personally I'd rather have a used Hassy, or a 6x7cm, or something like that. What can I say, I love fine pieces of engineering.

:-)

=Matt=

insanefred

Matthew Saville wrote: »

I know, I know. I will say however that I like this forum because at least we can have these crazy discussions without slinging personal insults, like some forums which shall remain nameless.

I hope I don't personally offend anyone's pride in their own brand. Really, if any one brand didn't make AMAZING cameras and lenses, they'd have been driven out of this industry long ago. That's the one inarguable fact that speaks for itself...

=Matt=

I don't get offended easily, and I can name a few forums that people just get a little too anal. I agree with you too, I like this forum for the same reason!

Matthew Saville wrote: »

I am quite insulted! :-P

I've got PLENTY of SOOC Nikon images that look just as good or better than any Canon image. It just takes a knowledge and mastery of Nikon white balance, including the fine tuning, and the picture controls, including the fine tuning. The only thing I will give Canon is that it is far EASIER to achieve pleasant skin tones, and only with certain sensors but not others. Canon's auto white balance usually does a better job than Nikon's auto white balance. But, show me any particular Canon image with what you consider to be pleasing skin tones, and I can replicate / beat those tones with any Nikon. :-)

=Matt=

You can get great images from SOOC from a Nikon. But their "Picture Controls" can be a PITA to deal with. Let me briefly explain, Nikon uses 2 sets of tone curves for its PC, a "Zero point" starting curve, that is not user definable. The second, is the user selectable tone curve.
Try changing PC with all that same user tone curve, notice how much the contrast changes? Canons picture styles don't do this, it only changes color response.

I have tried to use Portrait and Neutral Nikon PC, but the Portrait mode blows out reds too easily, and I still get a slight yellowing near highlights on skin tones likewise on the neutral. Also, strong red seem to go towards red-orange, purple tend be towards blues, skies tend to be a little magenta. I have use expodisk, and a white/gray cards, and do little or no help to fix this.

The mode of choice is D2Xmode1, by far it has the most pleasing color to me, BUT, the zero point tone curve is just too steep for the D700. Rendering my shadows too dark and my highlight clip too fast, I have the settings set to contrast -3 and brightness to -1. Also I'd like to add a touch of saturation, but +1 sat on this PC is just too much. This just means that all my photos will hit more PP than I'd like.

Other programs allow you to bypass Nikons zero point curves and truly allow users to make their own. LR, ACR and C1. Are some good examples.

Ok that's enough for now...

Matthew Saville

insanefred wrote: »

You can get great images from SOOC from a Nikon. But their "Picture Controls" can be a PITA to deal with. Let me briefly explain, Nikon uses 2 sets of tone curves for its PC, a "Zero point" starting curve, that is not user definable. The second, is the user selectable tone curve.
Try changing PC with all that same user tone curve, notice how much the contrast changes? Canons picture styles don't do this, it only changes color response.

I have tried to use Portrait and Neutral Nikon PC, but the Portrait mode blows out reds too easily, and I still get a slight yellowing near highlights on skin tones likewise on the neutral. Also, strong red seem to go towards red-orange, purple tend be towards blues, skies tend to be a little magenta. I have use expodisk, and a white/gray cards, and do little or no help to fix this.

The mode of choice is D2Xmode1, by far it has the most pleasing color to me, BUT, the zero point tone curve is just too steep for the D700. Rendering my shadows too dark and my highlight clip too fast, I have the settings set to contrast -3 and brightness to -1. Also I'd like to add a touch of saturation, but +1 sat on this PC is just too much. This just means that all my photos will hit more PP than I'd like.

Other programs allow you to bypass Nikons zero point curves and truly allow users to make their own. LR, ACR and C1. Are some good examples.

Ok that's enough for now...

Good points. Although personally, I've found Canon's picture modes to be the one that I couldn't get just right. And the ACR profiles only seemed to make RAW images worse. Clearly it is a matter of habit and experience with processing CR2 versus NEF's. I'm just so used to working on NEF's, I can make them look great in just a few seconds. But, thanks for explaining the way Canon handles in-camera picture styles. That does help explain the "look" of Canon images.

I also prefer the fact that Nikon shows individual RGB channel readouts (with blown highlight warnings) while Canon only gives one option for viewing blown highlights. I can avoid red channel clipping pretty easily by tweaking my exposure and white balance, and reviewing the individual red channel clipping warning.

But still, to each their own. Like I said it's definitely a lot easier to do great skin tones on a Canon, and if that's what a user wants, I don't think Nikon will match Canon any time soon.


=Matt=