Watch this - I loved it So dead on

shming

Very Clever video on you tube about a bride trying to hire a wedding photographer. :rofl:rofl:rofl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hpJ1iPD5RQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Klinh

Moogle Pepper

shming wrote: »

Very Clever video on you tube about a bride trying to hire a wedding photographer. rofl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hpJ1iPD5RQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Klinh

Felt like this was what I was experiencing on Sunday!

Blurmore

People who get all "artist avenger" enough to take the time to make crap like this should really find something else to do. Clients want pictures, brides want to feel beautiful...they don't give a rat's ass about your problems, your life, your vision, or your issues, charge what makes it worth your while and STFU. All this is, is an amateur's yelp that they are burnt out. Do we all feel like this sometimes? Sure. Does anyone want to hear us whine about it? F No. I have THE MOST fun job in the world, all I do is party. I'm not an artist, I'm a guy who sees the world in a unique way, figured out that other people like the way I see their world, and I have bills to pay, so does everyone else.

mmmatt

Blurmore wrote: »

People who get all "artist avenger" enough to take the time to make crap like this should really find something else to do. Clients want pictures, brides want to feel beautiful...they don't give a rat's ass about your problems, your life, your vision, or your issues, charge what makes it worth your while and STFU. All this is, is an amateur's yelp that they are burnt out. Do we all feel like this sometimes? Sure. Does anyone want to hear us whine about it? F No. I have THE MOST fun job in the world, all I do is party. I'm not an artist, I'm a guy who sees the world in a unique way, figured out that other people like the way I see their world, and I have bills to pay, so does everyone else.

Wow Jason... PMS'ing? Ha! I agree that brides don't want to hear about why you charge what you charge. If you have to explain it, it is probably over before it starts.

I thought it was hilarious. I've advertised on Craigslist a few times and that is the kind of bride I was getting. That is why I don't advertise on Craigslist!!

Matt

Blurmore

mmmatt wrote: »

Wow Jason... PMS'ing? Ha! I agree that brides don't want to hear about why you charge what you charge. If you have to explain it, it is probably over before it starts.

I thought it was hilarious. I've advertised on Craigslist a few times and that is the kind of bride I was getting. That is why I don't advertise on Craigslist!!

Matt

...not really. But our own local "Criagslist Artist Avenger" really pushes my buttons when he rails on posters who want TFCD, free, and collaborative works. If you don't want to shoot it, don't shoot it, don't try to re-educate the world as to why it is all SO WRONG, and SO HARMFUL to "CREATIVES". I swear I had a woman at a marketing tweetup refer to me as "you creatives" and I almost broke a cardinal rule I've followed my whole life about hitting a girl. I have three kids, and more than enough whine.

Agnieszka

OMG Tooooo funny, I have tears in my eyes. Haha! Thanks for sharing!

Darren Troy C

If you don't laugh at that, you're sense of humor has "left the building". Effing HIGH-larious!!

mmmatt

Blurmore wrote: »

...not really. But our own local "Criagslist Artist Avenger" really pushes my buttons when he rails on posters who want TFCD, free, and collaborative works. If you don't want to shoot it, don't shoot it, don't try to re-educate the world as to why it is all SO WRONG, and SO HARMFUL to "CREATIVES". I swear I had a woman at a marketing tweetup refer to me as "you creatives" and I almost broke a cardinal rule I've followed my whole life about hitting a girl. I have three kids, and more than enough whine.

No worries Jason! I like being seen as the artist type with quirky, high personal standards. I don't waste my breath dumping them all over stuborn potential clients though.

matt

shming

That's funny stuff isn't it --- the video didn't take the creator several hours to do Jason, it's from a site called xtranormal.com - all you have to do is type and the animation does the rest. Pretty creative if you ask me, so relax and have a sense of humor already. It was posted for enjoyment, not to educate or to inform, just entertainment value that's all. Damn - no wonder I'm hesitant on posting anything here at all anymore. Even posts for entertainment purposes get slammed.

Qarik

hahahaha

Mark1616

Too funny, I did enough to get my wife's attention!!

Matthew Saville

Blurmore wrote: »

...not really. But our own local "Criagslist Artist Avenger" really pushes my buttons when he rails on posters who want TFCD, free, and collaborative works. If you don't want to shoot it, don't shoot it, don't try to re-educate the world as to why it is all SO WRONG, and SO HARMFUL to "CREATIVES". I swear I had a woman at a marketing tweetup refer to me as "you creatives" and I almost broke a cardinal rule I've followed my whole life about hitting a girl. I have three kids, and more than enough whine.

I totally agree, and yet also disagree.

The agreement:

OMG, that photographer was annoying as heck with their whining about their overhead, etc. etc.

In my opinionated opinion, whoever made the video is probably inexperienced and yet already close to burnout. They haven't made an effort to pursue the types of clients who WON'T give them this crap; instead they're still doing business in the bottom-of-the-barrel market because they're too afraid to raise their prices, say "take it or leave it" to any clients who say they can't afford the rates, and EVENTUALLY break into a higher market with a healthy flow of pre-filtered referrals who are READY to pay your prices...


The disagreement:

The industry is crashing and burning. Almost the entire low-end of the industry will soon be the business of part-time craigslist photographers. And it will slowly eat away at the middle section of the industry in the coming years, forcing more and more full-time professionals into day jobs.

But, what is so wrong with this? As we agreed, nobody cares about a pro's overhead, etc. This is capitalism and if the industry changes, so be it. That's the risk you take when you decide to be self-employed: You're not entitled to a paycheck, and it is your responsibility to change gears if something happens in your industry. Earn your teaching credential and get job teaching photography at the local community college, maybe?

Still, why do I lament? Because consumers are lowering their standards, they're settling for crap that barely passes as artistic. Or, they're being deceived by aspiring professionals, and completely let down when the pictures turn out to be terrible. Either way, they can't win unless they're "educated"... And I feel compelled to do SOMETHING about it.

I'm certainly not going to rant about the overhead of a professional photographer, because like we said nobody cares what it costs to sustain a full-time business if the entire industry is going in the part-time direction. Bottom line.

However I MIGHT find ways to throw crappy photographers under the bus. Maybe by encouraging brides to ask potential photographers if their portfolio has any models in it, or if the images were made at a workshop under the guidance of another photographer, etc. Things that I believe will HELP consumers end up with better photos, whether or not they book ME, or whether they book a part-time hobbyist or a full-time professional. I really don't care who they book, as long as the pictures turn out great and the photographer doesn't come whining about how little they had to shoot for... Can I get an amen?

=Matt=

Blurmore

Matthew Saville wrote: »

I totally agree, and yet also disagree.

The agreement:

OMG, that photographer was annoying as heck with their whining about their overhead, etc. etc.

In my opinionated opinion, whoever made the video is probably inexperienced and yet already close to burnout. They haven't made an effort to pursue the types of clients who WON'T give them this crap; instead they're still doing business in the bottom-of-the-barrel market because they're too afraid to raise their prices, say "take it or leave it" to any clients who say they can't afford the rates, and EVENTUALLY break into a higher market with a healthy flow of pre-filtered referrals who are READY to pay your prices...


The disagreement:

The industry is crashing and burning. Almost the entire low-end of the industry will soon be the business of part-time craigslist photographers. And it will slowly eat away at the middle section of the industry in the coming years, forcing more and more full-time professionals into day jobs.

But, what is so wrong with this? As we agreed, nobody cares about a pro's overhead, etc. This is capitalism and if the industry changes, so be it. That's the risk you take when you decide to be self-employed: You're not entitled to a paycheck, and it is your responsibility to change gears if something happens in your industry. Earn your teaching credential and get job teaching photography at the local community college, maybe?

Still, why do I lament? Because consumers are lowering their standards, they're settling for crap that barely passes as artistic. Or, they're being deceived by aspiring professionals, and completely let down when the pictures turn out to be terrible. Either way, they can't win unless they're "educated"... And I feel compelled to do SOMETHING about it.

I'm certainly not going to rant about the overhead of a professional photographer, because like we said nobody cares what it costs to sustain a full-time business if the entire industry is going in the part-time direction. Bottom line.

However I MIGHT find ways to throw crappy photographers under the bus. Maybe by encouraging brides to ask potential photographers if their portfolio has any models in it, or if the images were made at a workshop under the guidance of another photographer, etc. Things that I believe will HELP consumers end up with better photos, whether or not they book ME, or whether they book a part-time hobbyist or a full-time professional. I really don't care who they book, as long as the pictures turn out great and the photographer doesn't come whining about how little they had to shoot for... Can I get an amen?

=Matt=

Amen...even though my own portfolio started out with shots gleaned from my time as a second to a very high end photographer. It no longer contains any of those shots and I wasn't "guided" much by that pro. I was setting lights and metering, doing as much guiding as being guided.

Blurmore

shming wrote: »

That's funny stuff isn't it --- the video didn't take the creator several hours to do Jason, it's from a site called xtranormal.com - all you have to do is type and the animation does the rest. Pretty creative if you ask me, so relax and have a sense of humor already. It was posted for enjoyment, not to educate or to inform, just entertainment value that's all. Damn - no wonder I'm hesitant on posting anything here at all anymore. Even posts for entertainment purposes get slammed.

Hey, I didn't mean any offense to you. I've seen videos made with this before, I've also seen this rant about how much it sucks to be a professional photographer today posted angrily and almost verbatim on Craigslist a thousand times.

shming

Blurmore wrote: »

Hey, I didn't mean any offense to you. I've seen videos made with this before, I've also seen this rant about how much it sucks to be a professional photographer today posted angrily and almost verbatim on Craigslist a thousand times.

It's all good. clap

Madmod

Matthew Saville wrote: »

I totally agree, and yet also disagree.

The agreement:

OMG, that photographer was annoying as heck with their whining about their overhead, etc. etc.

In my opinionated opinion, whoever made the video is probably inexperienced and yet already close to burnout. They haven't made an effort to pursue the types of clients who WON'T give them this crap; instead they're still doing business in the bottom-of-the-barrel market because they're too afraid to raise their prices, say "take it or leave it" to any clients who say they can't afford the rates, and EVENTUALLY break into a higher market with a healthy flow of pre-filtered referrals who are READY to pay your prices...


The disagreement:

The industry is crashing and burning. Almost the entire low-end of the industry will soon be the business of part-time craigslist photographers. And it will slowly eat away at the middle section of the industry in the coming years, forcing more and more full-time professionals into day jobs.

But, what is so wrong with this? As we agreed, nobody cares about a pro's overhead, etc. This is capitalism and if the industry changes, so be it. That's the risk you take when you decide to be self-employed: You're not entitled to a paycheck, and it is your responsibility to change gears if something happens in your industry. Earn your teaching credential and get job teaching photography at the local community college, maybe?

Still, why do I lament? Because consumers are lowering their standards, they're settling for crap that barely passes as artistic. Or, they're being deceived by aspiring professionals, and completely let down when the pictures turn out to be terrible. Either way, they can't win unless they're "educated"... And I feel compelled to do SOMETHING about it.

I'm certainly not going to rant about the overhead of a professional photographer, because like we said nobody cares what it costs to sustain a full-time business if the entire industry is going in the part-time direction. Bottom line.

However I MIGHT find ways to throw crappy photographers under the bus. Maybe by encouraging brides to ask potential photographers if their portfolio has any models in it, or if the images were made at a workshop under the guidance of another photographer, etc. Things that I believe will HELP consumers end up with better photos, whether or not they book ME, or whether they book a part-time hobbyist or a full-time professional. I really don't care who they book, as long as the pictures turn out great and the photographer doesn't come whining about how little they had to shoot for... Can I get an amen?

=Matt=

Now this might be slightly off topic but, I am a part-time hobbyist and I have just started charging for shoots (NON-Wedding) but I have only done one or two for friends at a small price. My question is don't you have to start small and work you way up? I wouldn't feel right if I came out and started charging what the pros in the area charge for a family shoot.
I want the experiance of working with a client and shooting with someone who is paying me their hard earned money. Should I shoot for free? I would have to guess alot of you would say that I should but I feel I should charge a small fee for my hard work and time that I put into the shoot. Am I doing something wrong by charging a small fee for my work? It is not pro quality but I feel like with every shoot that I do I am getting better and little bit less nervous. I know this is the wedding fourm but I had to ask. Once again my shoots are NON-WEDDING jobs.

Thanks
Ryan

Qarik

Madmod wrote: »

Now this might be slightly off topic but, I am a part-time hobbyist and I have just started charging for shoots (NON-Wedding) but I have only done one or two for friends at a small price. My question is don't you have to start small and work you way up? I wouldn't feel right if I came out and started charging what the pros in the area charge for a family shoot.
I want the experiance of working with a client and shooting with someone who is paying me their hard earned money. Should I shoot for free? I would have to guess alot of you would say that I should but I feel I should charge a small fee for my hard work and time that I put into the shoot. Am I doing something wrong by charging a small fee for my work? It is not pro quality but I feel like with every shoot that I do I am getting better and little bit less nervous. I know this is the wedding fourm but I had to ask. Once again my shoots are NON-WEDDING jobs.

Thanks
Ryan

of course. as long as you are preparing and take the job seriously then no one can fault you. we all have to start somewhere. the issue is with folks who don't

Matthew Saville

Madmod wrote: »

Now this might be slightly off topic but, I am a part-time hobbyist and I have just started charging for shoots (NON-Wedding) but I have only done one or two for friends at a small price. My question is don't you have to start small and work you way up? I wouldn't feel right if I came out and started charging what the pros in the area charge for a family shoot.
I want the experiance of working with a client and shooting with someone who is paying me their hard earned money. Should I shoot for free? I would have to guess alot of you would say that I should but I feel I should charge a small fee for my hard work and time that I put into the shoot. Am I doing something wrong by charging a small fee for my work? It is not pro quality but I feel like with every shoot that I do I am getting better and little bit less nervous. I know this is the wedding fourm but I had to ask. Once again my shoots are NON-WEDDING jobs.

Thanks
Ryan

You are entirely correct. Start small and work your way up. And you're also correct that you should be paid for your hard work. Of course if someone is just so enthusiastic that they ENJOY shooting for free, that's fine as long as they don't get burnt out, and they don't deliver terrible photos.

The only two things I want to see are, great photos, and photographers feeling like they're getting paid what they're worth. Around those two things, the industry can go in whatever direction it pleases...

=Matt=

Jeff_Milo

matthew saville wrote: »

the only two things i want to see are, great photos, and photographers feeling like they're getting paid what they're worth. Around those two things, the industry can go in whatever direction it pleases...

amen!!

Glort

I thought the Clip was Classic! Laughed my butt off!

For the indignant, it isn't just putting crap on the cheap ass brides, it's taking a shot at the shooters who think they need to be compensated individually for everything from their cameras to wear and tear on their shoe leather when they do a wedding.

The perceptive people will have a laugh and realise it's not about one or the other, it's about the different perspectives and what is important to each party and the gap that is created when each party is only focused on what is important to them.

To me the clip shows the ignorance of both the shooter and the bride.
After one stops having a chuckle ( and why the hell not?) then a wise person will heed the lesson from it.

Matthew Saville

Glort wrote: »

I thought the Clip was Classic! Laughed my butt off!

For the indignant, it isn't just putting crap on the cheap ass brides, it's taking a shot at the shooters who think they need to be compensated individually for everything from their cameras to wear and tear on their shoe leather when they do a wedding.

The perceptive people will have a laugh and realise it's not about one or the other, it's about the different perspectives and what is important to each party and the gap that is created when each party is only focused on what is important to them.

To me the clip shows the ignorance of both the shooter and the bride.
After one stops having a chuckle ( and why the hell not?) then a wise person will heed the lesson from it.

VERY well said!

=Matt=