Oly Upgrade

b08rsa · October 3, 2010

I have been using an Oly E-510 for about 2 yrs now. I have come to the conclusion that this body stinks for taking shots of night time outdoor soccer games under the lights. The high ISO is 1600, but it is so grainy it is painfull to even look at the images. Here is where my delima is...

What Oly would be a decent upgrade without dropping alot of coin.
I currently use a Sigma f2.8 70-200mm on my 510 body to shoot youth outdoor soccer in the day.

Would you scrap the Oly and move on? or just upgrade the body? I looked at a 620E because of the 3200 ISO speed, just wondering if that is going to make a difference on low light, or bad light situations. Any help or suggestions are appriciated.

Thanks...
:dunno

NeilL · October 3, 2010

All/any gear has limitations. I don't think your camera was created with serious sports photography in mind, so it's not that it stinks but that you are asking something inappropriate from it.

The Oly E-620 has a burst of 4fps, is slow to write to card, and produces grainy images at higher ISOs. I think the specs alone answer your question.

With your budget, pick up a good used Canon 40D, or good used 1D if your $$ go that far, and you will be a happy camper! You have an ok lens for the job.

Neil

b08rsa · October 3, 2010

NeilL wrote: »

All/any gear has limitations. I don't think your camera was created with serious sports photography in mind, so it's not that it stinks but that you are asking something inappropriate from it.

The Oly E-620 has a burst of 4fps, is slow to write to card, and produces grainy images at higher ISOs. I think the specs alone answer your question.

With your budget, pick up a good used Canon 40D, or good used 1D if your $$ go that far, and you will be a happy camper! You have an ok lens for the job.

Neil

I guess that is what I was afraid of. I kind of figured that a 620 may not do, so I have been looking at the specs for an Oly E-30 or even the E-3. I just hate to see my Sigma lens go useless. I am not familiar with Canon products, though I did see an open box buy for a Conon 50D with a 70-300mm lens for $1100. Then again, not sure if that is a good deal or not.

NeilL · October 3, 2010

Is your Sigma compatible with Canon mount?

I think Canon is the way to go for satisfaction in sports shooting.

Please be extremely careful when entering the used gear market. Best is to find stuff in the for sale forums here and at fredmiranda. Even then, check seller rating, and try to meet that person in person. Pay with PayPal, so that you have some safeguards if the deal goes awry. There is very fine gear to be bought for great savings from honest people. Buying good used gear also broadens your experience for less money of the sort of gear you might want, helping you to make more informed purchases of new stuff later, and you will also recoup a good percentage when you sell it on.

Neil

run_kmc · October 3, 2010

With the e5 just announced, the e3 is probably going to drop quite a bit in price very, very soon.

Something to consider.

b08rsa · October 4, 2010

richy wrote: »

You dont have to leave oly but nikon and canon do make some great cameras (7d, d300\700 etc) that perform well on a relative budget for what you want. However, you have some fast glass so it may make sense to stick with oly depending on just how much better you want. I dont have experience of the bodies but for the iso performance and the AF you are probably going to want to go as good as you can get, so the e3\5 would be what I would be looking into. Perhaps see if anybody local to you shoots one you could try out? or find one in a store and try that. Good luck!

Thanks for your input.

Internaut · October 4, 2010

The E-620 and E-30 both improve considerably on the E-510 at ISO 1600 but with these models, Olympus is still behind the curve (I find 1600 fine on my E-30 if I push the exposure a bit - not a luxury you'd always have when shooting sports). The latest available model, the E-PL1 OTOH produces usable JPEGs at ISO 3200. However, this is not a good camera for sports shooting by any stretch of the imagination.

So, where does this leave you? The E-5 would probably be a perfect upgrade but is likely to remain quite a hefty investment in its own right for some time. Pentax has recently made itself the new king of ISO at the low end while Nikon has a couple of interesting new bodies (thinking the D3100 and D7000, both of which I expect will have class leading ISO performance).

cmason · October 4, 2010

something to consider: I decided on Canon because I had a Canon lens. Now, I am happy with Canon, but I think I would have gone Nikon if not for the lens. As it turns out, I sold that lens and have since replaced it.

Lenses can be sold, replaced etc. Sigma makes that lens for other camera lines, and of course Canon and Nikon make similar. Don't hold onto a camera or camera line that doesn't meet your needs because of a lens. Sell it and buy what you need.

While I am sure Olympus is a fine camera system (hey I started with an OM-1n), frankly, Canon and Nikon simply have far more options, in everything from lenses to accessories. And 3rd party products are everywhere: everyone makes something for you camera, with Olympus, its more more rare to find accessories etc for them. I think going with Canon and Nikon just make life easier...leaving more energy for taking photos, but thats just my opinion, formed when I was deciding on a camera system some years ago.

misterb · October 6, 2010

The E-30 and the E-5 would be your best choice.. turn on Image Stabilization, shoot at 1600 and run it through LR3, NIK D-Fine 2.0 to remove noise and you will have a good image.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=110 align=right>Camera:</TD><TD vAlign=top>OLYMPUS IMAGING CORP. E-30</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=110 align=right>Exposure Time:</TD><TD vAlign=top>0.008s (1/125)</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=110 align=right>Aperture:</TD><TD vAlign=top>f/3.5</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=110 align=right>ISO:</TD><TD vAlign=top>3200</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=110 align=right>Focal Length:</TD><TD vAlign=top>54mm (108mm in 35mm)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Internaut · October 6, 2010

IBIS doesn't help with night action shots
The image stabilisation of the E-30 willl probably not help too much with night action shots due to subject blur. A nice 300mm F2.8 (which usually sells for several arms and several legs) OTOH might do the trick. However, the fact the OP has been persevering with an E-510 for night sports surprised me as this just isn't one of the system's strengths (Nikon dominates the sports market for a very good reason). I don't shoot sports at night so Olympus suits me fine.

ziggy53 · October 6, 2010

Internaut wrote: »

... (Nikon dominates the sports market for a very good reason). ...

I wonder why you still see so many Canon "white" lenses at professional sporting events if Nikon is dominant?

I see lots of good reports regarding the latest Canon sports cameras:

http://www.prophotohome.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/aftest0301101.jpg

http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/2371

http://manginphotography.net/2009/12/finally-canon-gets-it-right-with-mark-iv/

http://uniquephoto.blogspot.com/2010/01/unique-photo-shootout-featuring-david.html

http://photofocus.com/2010/02/18/a-response-to-rob-galbraiths-canon-autofocus-article/

http://www.photographyblog.com/news/canon_eos-1d_mark_iv_shoots_the_super_bowl/

http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/2380

I think that both Canon and Nikon are strong in the sports world and I would not want to draw any firm conclusions about market share without proof.

NikonsandVstroms · October 6, 2010

NeilL wrote: »

All/any gear has limitations. I don't think your camera was created with serious sports photography in mind, so it's not that it stinks but that you are asking something inappropriate from it.

The Oly E-620 has a burst of 4fps, is slow to write to card, and produces grainy images at higher ISOs. I think the specs alone answer your question.

With your budget, pick up a good used Canon 40D, or good used 1D if your $$ go that far, and you will be a happy camper! You have an ok lens for the job.

Neil

ISO 800 is 100% clean and ISO 1600 has the slightest grain (E-620 files love lightroom 3) so that is not a limitation I would throw at it.

If you want a sports camera on the cheap right now Nikon is the way to go with a used D300, you will get a vastly superior AF system to the XXD line, the 7D is supposed to be good but you will need to wait longer for cheap examples.

NikonsandVstroms · October 6, 2010

misterb wrote: »

The E-30 and the E-5 would be your best choice.. turn on Image Stabilization, shoot at 1600 and run it through LR3, NIK D-Fine 2.0 to remove noise and you will have a good image.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=110 align=right>Camera:</TD><TD vAlign=top>OLYMPUS IMAGING CORP. E-30</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=110 align=right>Exposure Time:</TD><TD vAlign=top>0.008s (1/125)</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=110 align=right>Aperture:</TD><TD vAlign=top>f/3.5</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=110 align=right>ISO:</TD><TD vAlign=top>3200</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=110 align=right>Focal Length:</TD><TD vAlign=top>54mm (108mm in 35mm)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

The reports on the E-5's AF are very positive, and has less noise by a good amount than your E-30. I would wait a little bit but the E-5/50-200 would be a very powerful combination, and about as expensive together as just a 70-200 F2.8 IS from Canon.

NeilL · October 6, 2010

NikonsandVstroms wrote: »

ISO 800 is 100% clean and ISO 1600 has the slightest grain (E-620 files love lightroom 3) so that is not a limitation I would throw at it.

If you want a sports camera on the cheap right now Nikon is the way to go with a used D300, you will get a vastly superior AF system to the XXD line, the 7D is supposed to be good but you will need to wait longer for cheap examples.

No problem. I think the E-620 represents a high point in Oly dslrs. Though I don't have it, I would like it as a practical carry-round for travel and street. I have recommended it on its reviews and tests, and Oly's quality, and the Zeiko lenses. I don't think, however, it's the right direction for the needs of the OP.

The D300 is possibly not as useful as XXD for high ISO, and Canon lenses have uncomplicated sports practicality, proven sports performance and affordability (at least up to the latest iterations

). The 1D series have remained unbeaten in AF performance.

Neil

Don Kondra · October 7, 2010

b08rsa wrote: »

What Oly would be a decent upgrade without dropping alot of coin.
I currently use a Sigma f2.8 70-200mm on my 510 body to shoot youth outdoor soccer in the day.

Would you scrap the Oly and move on? or just upgrade the body? I looked at a 620E because of the 3200 ISO speed, just wondering if that is going to make a difference on low light, or bad light situations. Any help or suggestions are appriciated.

Thanks...

If you expect decent results shooting night time soccer any system is going to cost you..

My recommendation is lose the Sigma, purchase a used E-30 and 50-200mm lens.

Each are going for ~ $650 used.

Cheers, Don

misterb · October 7, 2010

Don Kondra wrote: »

If you expect decent results shooting night time soccer any system is going to cost you..

My recommendation is lose the Sigma, purchase a used E-30 and 50-200mm lens.

Each are going for ~ $650 used.

Cheers, Don

Yup- what he said. SWD lens and E-30 will do the trick.

NikonsandVstroms · October 8, 2010

NeilL wrote: »

No problem. I think the E-620 represents a high point in Oly dslrs. Though I don't have it, I would like it as a practical carry-round for travel and street. I have recommended it on its reviews and tests, and Oly's quality, and the Zeiko lenses. I don't think, however, it's the right direction for the needs of the OP.

The D300 is possibly not as useful as XXD for high ISO, and Canon lenses have uncomplicated sports practicality, proven sports performance and affordability (at least up to the latest iterations). The 1D series have remained unbeaten in AF performance.

Neil

I thought the 40/50D were roughly on par with the D300 not really above it, the new 7D/60D will give more pixels to crop from, but with the later you lose that higher end AF. The D7000 could be an interesting choice depending how its AF pans out.

fldspringer · October 9, 2010

Don Kondra wrote: »

If you expect decent results shooting night time soccer any system is going to cost you..

My recommendation is lose the Sigma, purchase a used E-30 and 50-200mm lens.

Each are going for ~ $650 used.

Cheers, Don

I guess I don't get it. Why take a constant f2.8 lens and replace it with one dimmer at the long end when its low light and shutter speed is needed?

I love my 50-200, but in this situation, I'll opt for the brighter lens.

Don Kondra · October 9, 2010

The Oly beats the Sigma in resolution/image quality.

With either camera you can bump the iso and still maintain adequate shutter speed.

Cheers, Don

b08rsa · October 12, 2010

OK, so my next question is what would be a better fit? The E-3 or E-30. I pretty much decided on sticking with Oly.

Internaut · October 13, 2010

b08rsa wrote: »

OK, so my next question is what would be a better fit? The E-3 or E-30. I pretty much decided on sticking with Oly.

Depends. The E-3 is weather sealed and has a very nice view finder. The lighter E-30 has more advanced image processing, makes better use of the available dynamic range (when shooting JPEG) and with the noise filter set to standard or high, you should get perfectly usable photos at ISO 1600 and, at a push, ISO3200. The fine AF system of the E-30 is borrowed from the E-3 and a little improved.

For shooting in daylight (including action) you'll find either more or less perfect. For night shooting, both are probably acceptable rather than very good and the E-30 probably has an edge (but perhaps not a very big edge).

One thing to be aware of on the newer Olympus cameras is a little setting called Auto Gradiation which pushes the shadows in contrasty scenes. I wouldn't recommend it for high ISO night shooting.

misterb · October 13, 2010

b08rsa wrote: »

OK, so my next question is what would be a better fit? The E-3 or E-30. I pretty much decided on sticking with Oly.

I have the E-30 (after owning the e-420 & 520) and it is an awesome camera.. if you don't plan on shooting in the rain or snow, get the E-30!

Adorama and Amazon have the bodies for $829- which is a steal!

If you can afford the 50-200 SWD and/or 12-60 SWD- you will be set!

Here's a shot from Times Square I took at night:

NeilL · October 13, 2010

What an impressive job, Bob!

clap

I do see some noise there, but that in no way diminishes the impact. I find the standalone NoiseNinja to be the streets-ahead best at nr. If it has the E-30 noise profiles for all the ISOs yet you can just make that noise disappear, and tweak contrast and sharpness at the same time so there is no loss of detail and crispness. It's a real wonder!

Neil

Internaut · October 13, 2010

That's a lovely night shot of Times Square. I expect it will make a nice print.

Oly Upgrade

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