Margulis LAB Color Book - Reading group

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  • DavidTODavidTO Mod Emeritus Posts: 19,160Administrators moderator
    edited September 25, 2005
    Convert to profile allows you to avoid the dithering that PS does. Rutt and I have decided that it's not really a concern, since Margulis can barely justify it himself.

    I just change mode. It's easy.

    I've assigned a keystroke to it, and also for going back to RGB.
    digismile wrote:
    I received my book 2 days ago and I am trying to quickly catch up.

    I was at first a little put off by the introduction to Dan and his book. It was late at night and it read like an infomercial, that it would reduce my waist line and give me a six pack with only 5 minutes a day excercise :D . I guess I'm always a bit of a skeptic ...

    But, it didn't take long to get hooked on Dan's book. The very first picture I tried with the lab curves was remarkable. Yet another tool ...

    My question today is that on page 44, he says he prefers using Edit->Convert to Profile, instead of Image->Mode. Is Image->Mode the same thing, but without the dialog box with options?

    Brad
    Moderator Emeritus
    Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
  • ruttrutt Cave canem! Posts: 6,511Registered Users Major grins
    edited September 29, 2005
    Pathfinder has agreed to summarize Ch. 7 with a due date of 2 weeks from Monday. Hooray.

    Ch 7 is where Dan puts all the basic stuff together and describes a LAB workflow.

    After that, the chapters start to be more specialized and more technical. I'll do Ch. 8 in hopes of keeping up our head of steam.

    I still need volunteers for subsequent chapters. There's no harm in doing a second chapter. David, you did such a good job and got so much from Ch 3, maybe you'll be ready to do another in a month and a half?

    I reserve Ch. 16 for myself. I felt the same way about Ch. 7, but offered to Jim as a cookie to get him in the water. But Chs. 9-15 need owners.
    If not now, when?
  • DavidTODavidTO Mod Emeritus Posts: 19,160Administrators moderator
    edited September 29, 2005
    rutt wrote:
    Pathfinder has agreed to summarize Ch. 7 with a due date of 2 weeks from Monday. Hooray.

    Ch 7 is where Dan puts all the basic stuff together and describes a LAB workflow.

    After that, the chapters start to be more specialized and more technical. I'll do Ch. 8 in hopes of keeping up our head of steam.

    I still need volunteers for subsequent chapters. There's no harm in doing a second chapter. David, you did such a good job and got so much from Ch 3, maybe you'll be ready to do another in a month and a half?

    I reserve Ch. 16 for myself. I felt the same way about Ch. 7, but offered to Jim as a cookie to get him in the water. But Chs. 9-15 need owners.

    I'm in, just assign a chapter and let me know when you need it.
    Moderator Emeritus
    Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
  • ruttrutt Cave canem! Posts: 6,511Registered Users Major grins
    edited September 29, 2005
    DavidTO wrote:
    I'm in, just assign a chapter and let me know when you need it.

    Choose between 9 and 10. They both look like a lot of fun. Let's see:
    • Monday, Oct 3 for Chs 4 (Nik) & 5 (XO)
    • Monday, Oct 10 for Ch 6 (George)
    • Monday, Oct 17 for Ch 7 (PF)
    • Monday, Oct 24 for Ch 8 (rutt)

    We might get this thing read.
    If not now, when?
  • ruttrutt Cave canem! Posts: 6,511Registered Users Major grins
    edited October 1, 2005
    Chapter 4 summary is ready!
    Nikolai has posted a summary for Chapter 4, here. So it's time for all those saved up questions about casts and more narrow targeting of color changes.

    [Edit: fixed link.]
    If not now, when?
  • pathfinderpathfinder Drive By Digital Shooter western IndianaPosts: 14,182Super Moderators moderator
    edited October 11, 2005
    rutt wrote:
    Nikolai has posted a summary for Chapter 4, here. So it's time for all those saved up questions about casts and more narrow targeting of color changes.
    This link is not working for me.. Anyone else getting it to work?
    Pathfinder - www.pathfinder.smugmug.com

    Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
  • ruttrutt Cave canem! Posts: 6,511Registered Users Major grins
    edited October 11, 2005
    pathfinder wrote:
    This link is not working for me.. Anyone else getting it to work?

    Sorry, link was broken in great fiasco a couple of weeks back. Try this:

    http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=19556
    If not now, when?
  • edgeworkedgework Major grins Posts: 257Registered Users Major grins
    edited October 12, 2005
    Greetings. Just joined and am most interested in this discussion. I'm not a photographer, but have worked professionally as a color retoucher since Photoshop V.2 and have been heavily influenced by Dan Margulis' theories for most of that time. I've incorporated LAB in my own workflow for several years now and stumbled on his latest book, totally unaware that it was coming out, possibly the day Barnes & Noble first put it on the shelf. I've read it twice and can attest to the utility of the techniques offered. It's changed the way I approach my color work and, once I got out of the notion that now i had to "do it all in LAB" found that integrating the ideas into what I've already been doing expanded dramatically the scope of what is possible.

    I have a lot of reading to get up to speed with the rest of this discussion, but if something occurs to me, maybe I'll pipe up.

    Cheers.
    There are two ways to slide through life: to believe everything or to doubt everything; both save us from thinking.
    —Korzybski
  • ruttrutt Cave canem! Posts: 6,511Registered Users Major grins
    edited October 15, 2005
    George has posted Ch. 6 and PF has posted Ch. 7. XO promises to post Ch. 5 last Thursday, so I suppose that will be anytime.

    I will summarize Ch 8, probably next weekend, but perhaps a little later. DavidTO volunteered for anything I assigned him, but has not yet chosen between 9 and 10. David, please choose.

    OK, now we need more volunteers and also veterans to work on second and third chapters. I have dibs on 16 and am already trying to master its technique. I think we will find that from now on the chapters don't necessarily build on one another, so it's possible for you to peruse them and find something interesting and skip ahead and start playing with it.
    If not now, when?
  • pathfinderpathfinder Drive By Digital Shooter western IndianaPosts: 14,182Super Moderators moderator
    edited October 17, 2005
    I'd like to do Chapter 11. or 10. or 9 in that order of preference. Chapter 11 deals with rainbows and I want to use that technique on my sundog shot.
    Pathfinder - www.pathfinder.smugmug.com

    Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
  • ruttrutt Cave canem! Posts: 6,511Registered Users Major grins
    edited October 17, 2005
    You have Chapter 11. I've always wanted better rainbows myself and you can tell us how.
    If not now, when?
  • ruttrutt Cave canem! Posts: 6,511Registered Users Major grins
    edited October 25, 2005
    In case anyone missed it, I posted a summary of Chapter 5 here.

    IMO, the most interesting thing here is HIRALOAM sharpening. See my second post and following.
    If not now, when?
  • chrisjleechrisjlee Night Monkey Posts: 384Registered Users Major grins
    edited October 25, 2005
    rutt wrote:
    I finally have my copy of Dan Margulis' new book, Photoshop LAB Color : The Canyon Conundrum and Other Adventures in the Most Powerful Colorspace. This book is a runaway bestseller and I know that at least some dgrinners have it.

    What about organizing a reading group to help us all get through it? We can rea a chapter a week (or two weeks?) and share questions applications of the ideas to our own shots, &etc. I think we are more likely as a group to get through it with good understanding than as indivituals.

    Who is up for this? Anyone?

    MOD edit: use this thread if you have any questions about the reading group, or the book in general. rutt will edit this post, right here, and add in the links to the discussions on each chapter.

    Chapter 1 Discussion

    Chapter 2 Discussion

    Chapter 3 Discussion

    Chapter 4 Discussion

    Chapter 5 Discussion

    Chapter 6 Discussion

    Chapter 7 Discussion

    Beside the chapter discussions per se, there are also some interesting related threads. In particular:

    http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=19548
    http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=19588
    Rutt in this sticky could you label what each chapter discussion with a short summary? I find myself having to look through each link to find what i need since i have terrible memory.
    ---
    Chris
    Detroit Wedding Photography Blog
    Canon 10D | 20D | 5D
  • DavidTODavidTO Mod Emeritus Posts: 19,160Administrators moderator
    edited October 25, 2005
    chrisjlee wrote:
    Rutt in this sticky could you label what each chapter discussion with a short summary? I find myself having to look through each link to find what i need since i have terrible memory.


    That's a good idea.
    Moderator Emeritus
    Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
  • ruttrutt Cave canem! Posts: 6,511Registered Users Major grins
    edited October 25, 2005
    chrisjlee wrote:
    Rutt in this sticky could you label what each chapter discussion with a short summary? I find myself having to look through each link to find what i need since i have terrible memory.

    Buy the book. OK, OK, OK, I'll get around to it.
    If not now, when?
  • chrisjleechrisjlee Night Monkey Posts: 384Registered Users Major grins
    edited October 26, 2005
    rutt wrote:
    Buy the book. OK, OK, OK, I'll get around to it.
    Ha yeah i bought the book today. but i think i'll return it. i found a better price online than barnes and nobles.
    ---
    Chris
    Detroit Wedding Photography Blog
    Canon 10D | 20D | 5D
  • buzzard_nutsbuzzard_nuts Beginner grinner Posts: 4Registered Users Beginner grinner
    edited October 27, 2005
    I bought the book and then stumbled into your great group discussion. Looking forward to discussing.

    buzz
  • mdavismdavis Old film convert Posts: 9Registered Users Beginner grinner
    edited October 29, 2005
    Organizing your work
    This may get lost way down at the bottom of this thread, but hopefully it will be of some use to those who find it.

    On my own work, with all the thousands of tools and techniques available to edit images, including Dan's 10 color channels, I find it helpful to sit on my hands and spend a few minutes just looking at the image on the monitor. Then I create a blank layer and begin to draw in comments of things I think should be "fixed" on the image. This forces me to break tasks down into pieces and arrange them in order of operation and importance, and to focus on which technique would be best to accomplish the task.

    LAB corrections usually come out on the top of the pile for appropriate images, but not always, and it forces me to consider whether LAB is really the best way to begin. Sometimes, with a new awareness (LAB), everything starts there. But remember that when you have a new lawnmower, everything looks like grass.
  • K.B.K.B. beginner grinner sinner Posts: 3Registered Users Beginner grinner
    edited October 30, 2005
    Yeah!
    Count me in for lurking back here and just absorbing. You Guys are Great. Super Thread!thumb.gif Thanks for opening my eyes to LAB and the Margulis book. I used LAB on my avatar of my daughter doing a corner kick in her soccer game yesterday. Love those fall colors punched up a bit.
  • AndyAndy Bicameral New YorkPosts: 50,151Registered Users Major grins
    edited October 30, 2005
    K.B. wrote:
    Count me in for lurking back here and just absorbing. You Guys are Great. Super Thread!thumb.gif Thanks for opening my eyes to LAB and the Margulis book.

    wave.gif Welcome to dgrin, KB :D What Rutt's done here is sooo cool. A great resource and learning tool. Thanks Rutt!
  • ruttrutt Cave canem! Posts: 6,511Registered Users Major grins
    edited November 2, 2005
    I have posted a summary of Ch 8, here: http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=21648

    David is signed up for Chapter 9. PF is signed up for Chapter 11. I will do Chapter 16 (maybe sooner rather than later.)

    So once again we need volunteers.
    If not now, when?
  • edgeworkedgework Major grins Posts: 257Registered Users Major grins
    edited November 3, 2005
    Great project here.

    If no one's claimed Chapters 12 and/or 14, I'm game.
    There are two ways to slide through life: to believe everything or to doubt everything; both save us from thinking.
    —Korzybski
  • ruttrutt Cave canem! Posts: 6,511Registered Users Major grins
    edited November 3, 2005
    edgework wrote:
    Great project here.

    If no one's claimed Chapters 12 and/or 14, I'm game.

    I hate to sound greedy, but how about both? That would be awsome!

    So here is the list of assigned chapters still to do:

    Ch 9 -- DavidTo
    Ch 11-- Pathfinder
    Ch 12-- Edgework
    Ch 14-- Edgework
    Ch 16-- Rutt

    I'm going to focus on writing up Ch 16 pretty soon, might have as soon as a week from Saturday. I've been playing with the technique for more than a month and might be getting it. Next week I'm going to take Dan's advanced 3 day course in San Diego and he promises to go over the portrait technique from Ch 16, so I'll either be totally confused or have a lot to say.

    I'd like to see us on roughly a 2 week schedule -- at least one every two weeks.

    Any volunteers for missing chapters?
    If not now, when?
  • ruttrutt Cave canem! Posts: 6,511Registered Users Major grins
    edited November 13, 2005
    David has posted a summary of Chapter 9 here: http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=22331

    Personally, I think this is a great chapter, perhaps the most useful so far. If you have trouble making masks, if you slave with your tablet outlining objects for special treatment, learn these techniques and you'll be on your way to fast accurate masking and selection in many important cases.
    If not now, when?
  • ruttrutt Cave canem! Posts: 6,511Registered Users Major grins
    edited November 15, 2005
    New discussion threads
    There are two new discussion threads posted since last week:


    Chapter 12: The Man from Mars & Command, Control, Click

    Chapter 16: A technique for portraits
    If not now, when?
  • VikingViking Major grins Posts: 178Registered Users Major grins
    edited November 24, 2005
    Orderd the book
    Just orderd this book. Seems to be a great book! Just a little expensive. But what a heck, its soon christmas! thumb.gif

    Regards
    Johan
  • ruttrutt Cave canem! Posts: 6,511Registered Users Major grins
    edited November 24, 2005
    Viking wrote:
    Just orderd this book. Seems to be a great book! Just a little expensive. But what a heck, its soon christmas! thumb.gif

    Regards
    Johan

    I'm having a blast with it. It really has opened up a set of new tools and helped me rethink my workflow.
    If not now, when?
  • jhebertjhebert Beginner grinner Posts: 1Registered Users Beginner grinner
    edited December 1, 2005
    Error in Chapter 11? Can someone confirm this.
    Hello! I'm new here... a search on the latest book by Dan Margulis sent me your way, and I've enjoyed the discussion and practical examples.

    I have a question about chapter 11 where I think I've found an error. Pages 226-229 discuss the use of LAB to salvage a badly deteriorated photograph of Dan's great-great-grandmother. I have just such a photo to work on!

    However, when I reach the first step on the top of page 229, I come up short every time. Here he refers the reader to perform Edit: Fade>Lighten. However, Lighten is not an available option from the Edit:Fade dropdown menu at this point. It's dimmed.

    My guess is that there is another step (or steps) missing between the bottom of 228 and the top of 229. That, or I'm blowing this somehow, and I can't figure it out.

    I wondered if someone else might try the steps on 228-229 and see if the problem is something I'm missing, or something missing from the book. And, if the latter, if there is some way to pass this on to Dan.

    Thanks for your time and help!

    James
  • ruttrutt Cave canem! Posts: 6,511Registered Users Major grins
    edited December 3, 2005
    OK, given the time of year and all, I thought I'd give people some time to get around to the first portrait set, but we don't seem to have any new players.

    What time is good for people who have corrected at least some of these? Let's try to find a time when we can all do it and then figure out whether to use smugmug or IM or something else to communicate while we compare the versions.
    If not now, when?
  • ruttrutt Cave canem! Posts: 6,511Registered Users Major grins
    edited December 3, 2005
    If you report this directly to Dan via his colortheory yahoo group, you'll probably get a very quick answer and maybe even a thankyou for the errata.
    jhebert wrote:
    Hello! I'm new here... a search on the latest book by Dan Margulis sent me your way, and I've enjoyed the discussion and practical examples.

    I have a question about chapter 11 where I think I've found an error. Pages 226-229 discuss the use of LAB to salvage a badly deteriorated photograph of Dan's great-great-grandmother. I have just such a photo to work on!

    However, when I reach the first step on the top of page 229, I come up short every time. Here he refers the reader to perform Edit: Fade>Lighten. However, Lighten is not an available option from the Edit:Fade dropdown menu at this point. It's dimmed.

    My guess is that there is another step (or steps) missing between the bottom of 228 and the top of 229. That, or I'm blowing this somehow, and I can't figure it out.

    I wondered if someone else might try the steps on 228-229 and see if the problem is something I'm missing, or something missing from the book. And, if the latter, if there is some way to pass this on to Dan.

    Thanks for your time and help!

    James
    If not now, when?
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