I need a new laptop. Which has the best monitors, Mac or PC? Thanks!
99% of currently shipping consumer or business class laptops use a 6bit TN panel and that includes the current MacBook Pro's.
The exceptions are the HP 8740w and 8540w. The 8740w has a 1920x1200 IPS panel that HP claims to be 10bit and it is backlit by a wide gamut RGB-LED. Not sure on the 8540w details.
I need a new laptop. Which has the best monitors, Mac or PC? Thanks!
Neither has the best, there are Mac and PC laptops with good displays, though none really as good as a desktop. If you want to know how Mac laptop monitors are seen by pros, this article is a good read: http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-10041-10146
I'm surprised no one's mentioned the Dell U2410 - the HP ZR24W's counterpart with a few differences that make it better in pretty much every way, but specifically for photo editing.
Also, there are debates littering the internet about these two. Google 'u2410 vs zr24w' and you'll have all the hours of research you'll need at your fingertips. I spent about 8 hours from scratch to conclusion, and I am VERY happy with the u2410. I'm obsessive about technical detail and having the best equipment for the price range I shop at, and this the best at the 1920x1200 resolution since this res is being phased out of the market into 1080p crap.
However, let me make it easier... from my own personal research here's what I've found:
The U2410:
1. Plays games and movies much better regardless of what some of the forums say. The U2410 has a game mode which halves its input lag and becomes quicker than the zr24w if you end up getting dizzy in normal mode (Im a hardcore gamer and it refreshes fast enough without gaming mode even on)
2. Has %96 sRGB coverage vs the ZR24w with %76 coverage (if you're a photo editor it makes a huge difference... accurate 16 bit images are nice)
3. Has poor color calibration without a calibration device. If you have a color calibrator, this monitor is far better than the ZR24W since that is the main issue with this monitor that it needs to have an initial calibration to be accurate. I use a $60 HueyPro with the AdobeRGB display mode and its beautiful. I can see every detail in shadows and every inconsistency that I could not see on a normal TN monitor for hardcore spot removal (Samsung T220 was my old model and it was very bright too)
Warnings about the U2410:
Old revisions such as A00 and A01 have notorious tinting and shadow dithering issues, however, Dell will do a 1-day next day instant swap right at your door for the tinted monitor (if you get one) and they cover return shipping. I'd look on Ebay for Rev A02 or later since most sellers will let you know and/or test the monitor for tinting for you. I got a rev. A02 and its a real treat with no dithering or tinting. If you get a revision A02 or higher (a03, a04) and without a bad tint, its an amazing monitor and all-out better. I bought one refurbished off of ebay (refurbed comes with same warranty as new, 2 whoppin years)
I'm well aware of the U2410 and generally don't recommend it for all the issues you mention on tinting but do advise people that if they can get it for in the low $400's (it goes on sale from time to time) and if they are willing to take the risk, go for it.
There are a couple of points below which need correcting.
I'm surprised no one's mentioned the Dell U2410 - the HP ZR24W's counterpart with a few differences that make it better in pretty much every way, but specifically for photo editing.
Also, there are debates littering the internet about these two. Google 'u2410 vs zr24w' and you'll have all the hours of research you'll need at your fingertips. I spent about 8 hours from scratch to conclusion, and I am VERY happy with the u2410. I'm obsessive about technical detail and having the best equipment for the price range I shop at, and this the best at the 1920x1200 resolution since this res is being phased out of the market into 1080p crap.
However, let me make it easier... from my own personal research here's what I've found:
The U2410:
1. Plays games and movies much better regardless of what some of the forums say. The U2410 has a game mode which halves its input lag and becomes quicker than the zr24w if you end up getting dizzy in normal mode (Im a hardcore gamer and it refreshes fast enough without gaming mode even on)
2. Has %96 sRGB coverage vs the ZR24w with %76 coverage (if you're a photo editor it makes a huge difference... accurate 16 bit images are nice)
Perhaps you meant to state 96% of AdobeRGB ?? Various reviews and means of measuring the gamut lead to varying figures for coverage, all fairly close to each other.
The U2410 is a wide gamut monitor covering close to 100% of the sRGB color space and close to 100% of the AdobeRGB space; or approximately 102% of NTSC.
The ZR24 is a standard gamut monitor covering close to 100% (97%) of the sRGB space; or approximately 72% of NTSC. I've read somewhere that it only covers about 76% of AdobeRGB so it is definitely not a wide gamut monitor.
3. Has poor color calibration without a calibration device. If you have a color calibrator, this monitor is far better than the ZR24W since that is the main issue with this monitor that it needs to have an initial calibration to be accurate. I use a $60 HueyPro with the AdobeRGB display mode and its beautiful. I can see every detail in shadows and every inconsistency that I could not see on a normal TN monitor for hardcore spot removal (Samsung T220 was my old model and it was very bright too)
Warnings about the U2410:
Old revisions such as A00 and A01 have notorious tinting and shadow dithering issues, however, Dell will do a 1-day next day instant swap right at your door for the tinted monitor (if you get one) and they cover return shipping.
Can you confirm the instant swap details with a link to this info? This is key info as to date the only policy I'm aware of for this monitors and their tinting issues is the following which highlights that Dell considers the tinting a normal characteristic of the IPS panel in this monitor and will not issue RMA's for exchanges for this issue.
If Dell has reversed their policy I'd like to know as I will add this as a caveat in recommending this monitor in the future.
I'd look on Ebay for Rev A02 or later since most sellers will let you know and/or test the monitor for tinting for you. I got a rev. A02 and its a real treat with no dithering or tinting. If you get a revision A02 or higher (a03, a04) and without a bad tint, its an amazing monitor and all-out better. I bought one refurbished off of ebay (refurbed comes with same warranty as new, 2 whoppin years)
OK, what is the best monitor i can get for my PC for games? I have 2 monitors for photography and happy with them, using both on Mac, but i would like to use my PC sometimes and mostly i will use it for Office and PC games, so which monitor do you recommend in 24-27"? I don't care much about the price, but don't recommend me Eizo, i have one for Photography, and it is really fine but i will keep it for Mac not PC.
OK, what is the best monitor i can get for my PC for games? I have 2 monitors for photography and happy with them, using both on Mac, but i would like to use my PC sometimes and mostly i will use it for Office and PC games, so which monitor do you recommend in 24-27"? I don't care much about the price, but don't recommend me Eizo, i have one for Photography, and it is really fine but i will keep it for Mac not PC.
The best LCD gaming monitor would have a "TN" TFT panel. These are not ideal for image work.
For gaming, especially fast action first person shooters, it is all about the pixel response time (often stated as typical 2ms gtg, gray to gray) and the input lag which is the time delay between when the monitors' electronics receive the video data and when it is displayed on the screen as compared to an analog CRT monitor.
A low pixel response time minimizes blurring and ghosting and a low input lag minimizes the lag between when someone pops up into view and when you actually see it on screen. IMHO, input lag is fairly important especially if you're older and your eye to hand reflex is not what it used to be.
CRT monitors are still the best gaming monitors for FPS games.
If you go into this review you will see that the Samsung SM2233RZ is their reference gaming monitor.
The interesting point is that many of the current crop of budget IPS panel monitors (good for image work) have pretty good input lag.
I can tell you that when I switched from gaming on my Samsung 215TW with its typical 35 to 45ms input lag to my Dell 2209WA with its 9ms average input lag, my K-D ratio improved significantly in FPS's. Was it the monitors' low input lag or being able to see detail in dark areas or just a coincidence of experience level taking me over a threshold? I'm not sure.
Most of the latest budget IPS monitors are in 16:9 format which works well for console games but can be used with PC's as well.
The results TFT Central reports are a bit different than what other sites report. Here's another site where you can compare monitors.
The best LCD gaming monitor would have a "TN" TFT panel. These are not ideal for image work.
For gaming, especially fast action first person shooters, it is all about the pixel response time (often stated as typical 2ms gtg, gray to gray) and the input lag which is the time delay between when the monitors' electronics receive the video data and when it is displayed on the screen as compared to an analog CRT monitor.
A low pixel response time minimizes blurring and ghosting and a low input lag minimizes the lag between when someone pops up into view and when you actually see it on screen. IMHO, input lag is fairly important especially if you're older and your eye to hand reflex is not what it used to be.
CRT monitors are still the best gaming monitors for FPS games.
If you go into this review you will see that the Samsung SM2233RZ is their reference gaming monitor.
The interesting point is that many of the current crop of budget IPS panel monitors (good for image work) have pretty good input lag.
I can tell you that when I switched from gaming on my Samsung 215TW with its typical 35 to 45ms input lag to my Dell 2209WA with its 9ms average input lag, my K-D ratio improved significantly in FPS's. Was it the monitors' low input lag or being able to see detail in dark areas or just a coincidence of experience level taking me over a threshold? I'm not sure.
Most of the latest budget IPS monitors are in 16:9 format which works well for console games but can be used with PC's as well.
The results TFT Central reports are a bit different than what other sites report. Here's another site where you can compare monitors.
If Dell has reversed their policy I'd like to know as I will add this as a caveat in recommending this monitor in the future.
I'm not sure anymore, I read numerous posts of multiple swap-outs, and the seller I purchased from also says Dell will do a 1 day swap. I think their swap out refusal refers to people who don't color calibrate, and the whole screen is of a poor hue just because of a lack of calibration.
If you can find one that's not a gamble (like one pretested by a seller on ebay) then its worth it. Otherwise, I wouldn't buy it directly from Dell or a store that won't test it for you. Ever.
I got an A02 off Ebay and it is perfectly back lit, with a SLIGHT magenta tint in the center. Its only noticable on pure white/light grey backgrounds. During color editing I don't even see it. I got lucky
Comments
99% of currently shipping consumer or business class laptops use a 6bit TN panel and that includes the current MacBook Pro's.
The exceptions are the HP 8740w and 8540w. The 8740w has a 1920x1200 IPS panel that HP claims to be 10bit and it is backlit by a wide gamut RGB-LED. Not sure on the 8540w details.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/hp-business-class-notebooks/470406-official-hp-elitebook-8740w-owners-lounge-220.html#post6467969
The 8740w will set you back about $4000+ USD.
Hence many laptop users buy $1200 laptops and $300 external monitors.
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Neither has the best, there are Mac and PC laptops with good displays, though none really as good as a desktop. If you want to know how Mac laptop monitors are seen by pros, this article is a good read:
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-10041-10146
-J
Also, there are debates littering the internet about these two. Google 'u2410 vs zr24w' and you'll have all the hours of research you'll need at your fingertips. I spent about 8 hours from scratch to conclusion, and I am VERY happy with the u2410. I'm obsessive about technical detail and having the best equipment for the price range I shop at, and this the best at the 1920x1200 resolution since this res is being phased out of the market into 1080p crap.
However, let me make it easier... from my own personal research here's what I've found:
The U2410:
1. Plays games and movies much better regardless of what some of the forums say. The U2410 has a game mode which halves its input lag and becomes quicker than the zr24w if you end up getting dizzy in normal mode (Im a hardcore gamer and it refreshes fast enough without gaming mode even on)
2. Has %96 sRGB coverage vs the ZR24w with %76 coverage (if you're a photo editor it makes a huge difference... accurate 16 bit images are nice)
3. Has poor color calibration without a calibration device. If you have a color calibrator, this monitor is far better than the ZR24W since that is the main issue with this monitor that it needs to have an initial calibration to be accurate. I use a $60 HueyPro with the AdobeRGB display mode and its beautiful. I can see every detail in shadows and every inconsistency that I could not see on a normal TN monitor for hardcore spot removal (Samsung T220 was my old model and it was very bright too)
Warnings about the U2410:
Old revisions such as A00 and A01 have notorious tinting and shadow dithering issues, however, Dell will do a 1-day next day instant swap right at your door for the tinted monitor (if you get one) and they cover return shipping. I'd look on Ebay for Rev A02 or later since most sellers will let you know and/or test the monitor for tinting for you. I got a rev. A02 and its a real treat with no dithering or tinting. If you get a revision A02 or higher (a03, a04) and without a bad tint, its an amazing monitor and all-out better. I bought one refurbished off of ebay (refurbed comes with same warranty as new, 2 whoppin years)
Ebay has them for $300 and Www.mrrebates.com will give %3 cashback for $18 back through ebay (sign up for it first though and follow instructions)
Oh always ask if the warranty is good, sometimes they're not but almost all of the refurbs are.
There are a couple of points below which need correcting.
Perhaps you meant to state 96% of AdobeRGB ?? Various reviews and means of measuring the gamut lead to varying figures for coverage, all fairly close to each other.
The U2410 is a wide gamut monitor covering close to 100% of the sRGB color space and close to 100% of the AdobeRGB space; or approximately 102% of NTSC.
The ZR24 is a standard gamut monitor covering close to 100% (97%) of the sRGB space; or approximately 72% of NTSC. I've read somewhere that it only covers about 76% of AdobeRGB so it is definitely not a wide gamut monitor.
Can you confirm the instant swap details with a link to this info? This is key info as to date the only policy I'm aware of for this monitors and their tinting issues is the following which highlights that Dell considers the tinting a normal characteristic of the IPS panel in this monitor and will not issue RMA's for exchanges for this issue.
http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/peripherals/f/3529/t/19302919.aspx
If Dell has reversed their policy I'd like to know as I will add this as a caveat in recommending this monitor in the future.
.
The best LCD gaming monitor would have a "TN" TFT panel. These are not ideal for image work.
For gaming, especially fast action first person shooters, it is all about the pixel response time (often stated as typical 2ms gtg, gray to gray) and the input lag which is the time delay between when the monitors' electronics receive the video data and when it is displayed on the screen as compared to an analog CRT monitor.
A low pixel response time minimizes blurring and ghosting and a low input lag minimizes the lag between when someone pops up into view and when you actually see it on screen. IMHO, input lag is fairly important especially if you're older and your eye to hand reflex is not what it used to be.
CRT monitors are still the best gaming monitors for FPS games.
If you go into this review you will see that the Samsung SM2233RZ is their reference gaming monitor.
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/benq_ew2420.htm
The interesting point is that many of the current crop of budget IPS panel monitors (good for image work) have pretty good input lag.
I can tell you that when I switched from gaming on my Samsung 215TW with its typical 35 to 45ms input lag to my Dell 2209WA with its 9ms average input lag, my K-D ratio improved significantly in FPS's. Was it the monitors' low input lag or being able to see detail in dark areas or just a coincidence of experience level taking me over a threshold? I'm not sure.
Most of the latest budget IPS monitors are in 16:9 format which works well for console games but can be used with PC's as well.
The results TFT Central reports are a bit different than what other sites report. Here's another site where you can compare monitors.
http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=88&ma2=36&mo2=458&p2=4495&ph=12
Note that there are a variety of tests you can compare with and two others are for pixel response time.
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So what do you recommend or what will be your choice?
I wouldn't buy a monitor with a "TN" panel period. I use my Dell 2209WA for gaming - it's now discontinued.
Sorry, no suggestions
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I'm not sure anymore, I read numerous posts of multiple swap-outs, and the seller I purchased from also says Dell will do a 1 day swap. I think their swap out refusal refers to people who don't color calibrate, and the whole screen is of a poor hue just because of a lack of calibration.
If you can find one that's not a gamble (like one pretested by a seller on ebay) then its worth it. Otherwise, I wouldn't buy it directly from Dell or a store that won't test it for you. Ever.
http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/peripherals/f/3529/t/19297120.aspx?PageIndex=9
I got an A02 off Ebay and it is perfectly back lit, with a SLIGHT magenta tint in the center. Its only noticable on pure white/light grey backgrounds. During color editing I don't even see it. I got lucky
So... ONLY BUY REVISION A02 OR LATER. lol.
Dell has been shipping a rev A04 made in December. Too early to tell if it still has the tinting issues.
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